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Post Info TOPIC: LT Exam Scores
LT Exam scores [238 vote(s)]

90-100
10.9%
80-89
10.9%
70-79
21.4%
60-69
27.7%
Below 60
29.0%


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RE: LT Exam Scores


crossingmyfingers wrote:
VetteCop wrote:
GangGreenMets wrote:
VetteCop wrote:

I know people who scored in the 90's... I know people who scored in the 30's... trust me when I tell you - you'd rather have some of the 30's-40's-50's be your boss...


 Well yeah, we all know that these tests dont measure the capability of a supervisor, theyre purely a memorization test. I know a sgt who just passed this test with a decent score, but also had his sgt probation extended because they kept making big mistakes out in the field. That being said, tests are the only fair way to establish a list. Nepotism is a plague in this dept, and would only be much worse without these tests.



-- Edited by GangGreenMets on Tuesday 28th of March 2023 12:55:32 AM


 While I don't disagree with you about nepotism/needing a test, they really should test on procedures that are actually used on a day to day basis, or, *the horror*, used in life and death split second decision situations... You know, the stuff that makes you a good boss. 


 so you would rather a list of 2000 people than a 5-600 list? And what procedures make you a good boss everyone precinct is different and deals with different situations and things


 Yes, i would rather a test that would allow people who study to get 90's to 100 and have a long list where scoring well matters.  The powers that be can decide what procedures to test on but they've been testing on it already.  Stuff from 207 208 221 212 215 217 etc.  procedures from areas like 305 and 202 quite frankly can just be looked up at your convenience in a command.  Whether you know about the distance of your sleeve to hashmarks doesn't really matter.  They could have made a test on the same procedures we were just tested on, but instead of asking obscure parts of the procedure, ask about the important parts.  If people know it, then they know it.  Functionally, by promoting and testing people who score well, you are moving the avg score of the "bell curve" that exists naturally in testing from the 60's and 70's.  Functionally, you're not promoting any more nor less people that you would have been but you are shifting that bell curve median from the 60's/70's to the 90's instead.  

You would rather them "curve and correct" a list where people who scored 50's and 60's are being promoted like the 2016 SGT test and the current captains list ?? It common knowledge that if you aren't getting 90's in FDNY, Sanitation, Parks, DEP and other city agencies, you aren't getting hired or promoted.  



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Also what is the point of creating a difficult test, based off of obscure parts of the PG, when theyre just going to curve it anyway? Write a fair test, and stop with the curving nonsense.

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Idk whats more annoying.. - hearing the 2 people from my cmd that passed band together to not attend the protest or the 15 people that failed band together to get as much dismissed as possible. 



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I honestly dont even remember the questions, just the procedures so Im not really sure what obscure parts they went to. But if its a 5,4 and 3 or even lieutenants duties you should know that whole procedure cold, obscure or not. I see what youre both saying and I am all for a fair test but I do not agree on a 2000 person list. Besides the 17 test the lists were in the 600s normally and they dont promote lts often. In my opinion too if you just studied the packets you dont deserve to pass.

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Imagine telling people they dont deserve to pass because they didnt study the way you feel was correct. You all talk so much fkn nonsense. So much negativity. Everyone has their own methods to studying & everyone did it their own way. Some did packets & passed, some read the guide & passed. Who fkn cares. How about being a little more positive in here. How about we start being a little patient & wait for the email with the post-throw out scores. Then lets wait to see what happens with the curve. All this crap & opinions & no facts. Its like a big dick contest. Jesus.

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Its easy to talk thrash when hes probably inside all day in his training Sgt spot while you out here running around between two crime scenes in two different divisions.

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Seeing someone form Tranit call someone else out on scamming is kind of ironic, not gonna lie and if you are in fact running from crime scene to crime now, well welcome to the real job



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Fuck the promotion, just get into a nice detail

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No1isbetter wrote:

Imagine telling people they dont deserve to pass because they didnt study the way you feel was correct. You all talk so much fkn nonsense. So much negativity. Everyone has their own methods to studying & everyone did it their own way. Some did packets & passed, some read the guide & passed. Who fkn cares. How about being a little more positive in here. How about we start being a little patient & wait for the email with the post-throw out scores. Then lets wait to see what happens with the curve. All this crap & opinions & no facts. Its like a big dick contest. Jesus.


 people love gatekeeping including the test writers



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TransitCop wrote:

Its easy to talk thrash when hes probably inside all day in his training Sgt spot while you out here running around between two crime scenes in two different divisions.


 If I was a Sgt in transit I wouldnt worry about promotion. It was good while it lasted as a PO but you right no one in transit should dare to open their mouth about how hard they work.



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2000 person LT list?!

only 2674 signed up... and even if EVERY single person who signed up took it (I doubt that) - that would equate to about a 75% "PASS RATE." Get out of here with that noise.

At this point, all these numbers are just mere speculation until FOIL requests come back. What actually helps is protesting questions... Whoever posted earlier that two in you command who passed banded together to not do the protest, I'm sure they're great Sergeants and will be fantastic Lieutenants. F'in morons.

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Yeah guy, get over all that arbitrary # pass rate crap. If the job needs 2000 Lts the passing mark will be whatever it wants to get the amount of supervisors it needs. It doesnt care what a passing score was when you were in grade school.

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Agreed. In recent exams passing score ranged in the upper 50s. We need concrete info

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The hardest part of the process is waiting for those 6 months for the actual list. only then shall you guys know the truth. In the meantime, everyone should attend the protest session and fight for your points. Its one thing for you to read and understand a procedure. Another thing is to know a procedure you studied for and still fall for their trickery. Whats the whole point? it was never about being a good supervisor. Its about memorizing stupid lines on a book and not falling for the BS. Go fight for your points! And if you do get promoted two or 3 years later, you wont remember the crap anyway. So make it on the list anyway you can because the process doesnt matter. 



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VetteCop wrote:

I know people who scored in the 90's... I know people who scored in the 30's... trust me when I tell you - you'd rather have some of the 30's-40's-50's be your boss...


 Amazing point of view 



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fiftyfouredp wrote:

Yeah guy, get over all that arbitrary # pass rate crap. If the job needs 2000 Lts the passing mark will be whatever it wants to get the amount of supervisors it needs. It doesnt care what a passing score was when you were in grade school.


 I agree with this. Its all what the job wants in terms of numbers.

Any luck on a FOIL request response from anyone ?



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VetteCop wrote:

2000 person LT list?!

only 2674 signed up... and even if EVERY single person who signed up took it (I doubt that) - that would equate to about a 75% "PASS RATE." Get out of here with that noise.

At this point, all these numbers are just mere speculation until FOIL requests come back. What actually helps is protesting questions... Whoever posted earlier that two in you command who passed banded together to not do the protest, I'm sure they're great Sergeants and will be fantastic Lieutenants. F'in morons.


 After the curve, the passing rate of the Captains exam was exactly 60%. 

If this list gets curved to have 1000 people then thats a 37% pass rate. A 60% pass rate would put this list at 1600 people. 



-- Edited by brooklynbacon on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 11:27:28 AM

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How many lts does the job want on the list?

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brooklynbacon wrote:
VetteCop wrote:

2000 person LT list?!

only 2674 signed up... and even if EVERY single person who signed up took it (I doubt that) - that would equate to about a 75% "PASS RATE." Get out of here with that noise.

At this point, all these numbers are just mere speculation until FOIL requests come back. What actually helps is protesting questions... Whoever posted earlier that two in you command who passed banded together to not do the protest, I'm sure they're great Sergeants and will be fantastic Lieutenants. F'in morons.


 After the curve, the passing rate of the Captains exam was exactly 60%. 

If this list gets curved to have 1000 people then thats a 37% pass rate. A 60% pass rate would put this list at 1600 people. 



-- Edited by brooklynbacon on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 11:27:28 AM


 Considering the last LT list was 1324, i dont see a 1600 being out of the realm of possibility.  I personally guessed a list of 1500 to be coming so 1600 isnt far off.



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brooklynbacon wrote:
VetteCop wrote:

2000 person LT list?!

only 2674 signed up... and even if EVERY single person who signed up took it (I doubt that) - that would equate to about a 75% "PASS RATE." Get out of here with that noise.

At this point, all these numbers are just mere speculation until FOIL requests come back. What actually helps is protesting questions... Whoever posted earlier that two in you command who passed banded together to not do the protest, I'm sure they're great Sergeants and will be fantastic Lieutenants. F'in morons.


 After the curve, the passing rate of the Captains exam was exactly 60%. 

If this list gets curved to have 1000 people then thats a 37% pass rate. A 60% pass rate would put this list at 1600 people. 



-- Edited by brooklynbacon on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 11:27:28 AM

Dear bacon, wouldnt you agree that the size of the list is irrelevant? Isnt the real question how many LTs are they going to promote in the next 4 years? Obviously they are going to make a list that cant run less than 4 years. But if they need say 800 ( made up number) it doesnt matter if the list is 900 or 1200

 



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There is a total of 1700 +\- LT on the job. Unless all of them retire this list should not be anything over 1200. Even then I doubt they will get to everyone.



-- Edited by TransitCop on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 01:05:09 PM

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brooklynbacon wrote:
VetteCop wrote:

2000 person LT list?!

only 2674 signed up... and even if EVERY single person who signed up took it (I doubt that) - that would equate to about a 75% "PASS RATE." Get out of here with that noise.

At this point, all these numbers are just mere speculation until FOIL requests come back. What actually helps is protesting questions... Whoever posted earlier that two in you command who passed banded together to not do the protest, I'm sure they're great Sergeants and will be fantastic Lieutenants. F'in morons.


 After the curve, the passing rate of the Captains exam was exactly 60%. 

If this list gets curved to have 1000 people then thats a 37% pass rate. A 60% pass rate would put this list at 1600 people. 



-- Edited by brooklynbacon on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 11:27:28 AM


Cant compare Lts to Capts though. Job was short for Capts, Lt is the only rank with no shortage but well see 



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Currently

Sergeants 4243, 22% is 19years + (932)
Lieutenants 1740, 35% is 19years + (612)
Captains 348, 39% is 19years + (137)

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I think a list of 1300 is reasonable. There is always a chunk that gets jammed up, pass up promotion, retire, die, etc.

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West72 wrote:

Currently

Sergeants 4243, 22% is 19years + (932)
Lieutenants 1740, 35% is 19years + (612)
Captains 348, 39% is 19years + (137)


 Can you find out the percentage (Lieutenants) with 16+ years on the job?  



-- Edited by SATCOM on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 01:33:19 PM

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1335 with 16years + (77%)



-- Edited by West72 on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 01:44:55 PM

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West72 wrote:

Currently

Sergeants 4243, 22% is 19years + (932)
Lieutenants 1740, 35% is 19years + (612)
Captains 348, 39% is 19years + (137)


 Wow, surprised the number of LTs with 19+ years on is that high. So realistically even if Half of those eligible  put their papers in next year, youre talking about 300+ vacancies next year alone. 



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1335 Lieutenants with 16+ years 

In the 4-year span of the list and considering they are all tier 2; figure half of the 1335 retire at 20 (667), another 300 get promoted to captain for a total close to 1000.

A 1000-person list is highly likely, almost definite.

Depending on the results of the protest coupled with a curve, I would argue people in the mid 60s have a strong chance.  I think we can predict this based on the foil responses from DCAS.   If the list is 250 like everyone is saying then low 60s might be the sweet spot.  If it is in the 500s then mid to high 60s is most likely.   



-- Edited by SATCOM on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 02:22:40 PM

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A 60 and above will bring it to 1000. A lott of people fall below 60

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SATCOM wrote:

1335 with 16years + (77%)

In the 4-year span of the list and considering they are all tier 2; figure half of the 1335 retire at 20 (667), another 300 get promoted to captain for a total close to 1000

A 1000-person list is highly likely, almost definite.

Depending on the results of the protest coupled with a curve, I would argue people in the mid 60s have a strong chance.


 Yeah, 1000-person list is very likely. And it will be a very bottom-heavy list with vast majority in low 80s - 70s after potential throw-outs and a curve. Some high scores here and there but majority of passers I know are in the 70s. 



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where are people hearing the 250/300 passing numbers from? is it rumor or is it from a legit source at this point?



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Hithattestwashard wrote:

where are people hearing the 250/300 passing numbers from? is it rumor or is it from a legit source at this point?


 All conjecture



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TransitCop wrote:

There is a total of 1700 +\- LT on the job. Unless all of them retire this list should not be anything over 1200. Even then I doubt they will get to everyone.



-- Edited by TransitCop on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 01:05:09 PM


 

Last list 1324 names.  Captains list is 480+names and theres only 355 captains.  Like you said, just because they make a long list doesn't mean they will get to everyone.  



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I got a 49.  6-8 months of dedicated studying for a challenging/difficult exam - reading the actual guide + materials from class. 

I expected & prepared for a difficult test not what most of us saw on test day. That was beyond trickery by DCAS/exam writers.

 **Congratulations and my hat is off to all those that were able to pass this exam.  Stay safe.  

 



-- Edited by Antonio on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 05:42:57 PM



-- Edited by Antonio on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 05:44:47 PM



-- Edited by Antonio on Wednesday 29th of March 2023 05:45:13 PM

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I got a 50 on the test so its not worth protesting for me but also, how can you protest a difficult test that was fair? In my opinion, anyone in the 60s will make it. Good luck to all

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Well written my friend you cant when it was fair Good luck to all

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When's the last time ANY list actually died?

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When is this Foil coming out ?

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VetteCop wrote:

When's the last time ANY list actually died?


 2006 Lts exam I believe



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Has anyone from The Key or Elite commented on this exam yet? Im interested to hear their take on it



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VetteCop wrote:

When's the last time ANY list actually died?


 In the last 20 years only one list had people die on it and it was a Lts list. 



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The 2006 Lts list died due to the economic collapse of 2008-2009. Major hiring freeze.

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6 months till list is promulgated? 



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BONESAWisREADY wrote:

6 months till list is promulgated? 


  no way. 8? People left on previous list..



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I'd pay money to watch the Lts, who wrote this test, take this test and see how they do.

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What is truly crazy is those that are on the street and responding to jobs saw and applied a lot of the procedures and have it down to a science. The test makers decided to go to obscure parts of the guide in order to eliminate as many people from passing the test instead of testing knowledge of different areas of the Patrol Guide. I would have rather they have a big list and cut it if need be so those that studied hard could get the credit they deserved studying day in and day out. What is the take away for the job in regards to the questions they asked? I will not put those questions because the makeups that will get 80s and 90s didnt take the test yet. A lot of sgts who took this test and studied hard have a clear take away and that this was a straight set up and a waste of valuable time for me. Congratulations to those who passed.

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Tunit wrote:

Has anyone from The Key or Elite commented on this exam yet? Im interested to hear their take on it


 Yes. Mike from elite recommended that everyone go to the protest and protest any bad or poorly written questions. 



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All questions were poor lol

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Does anyone recall when the protest session will be held?

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If they took a survey of how many inside people vs people that work in the streets it would be a great disproportion Im just saying. That is were I was seeking personally better questions because I had higher standards for the questions.

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