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The Mayor's Executive Order Question was on every promotional exam ever given . I doubt thats a research question.

-- Edited by BxPogiBoy on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 12:15:03 PM

Research questions...do you remember word for word the question and the choices???? For the mayors question? I took this test at least twice before and stumbled on that question, which should be the easiest question on the whole test. A huge part why some sgts get a 70 instead of a 69 in the first place, cause it's an easy answer!!! But it wasn't!!!! If you add that there was double questions after the 100, then that's where the research was!!!! Aka the NOE PRIOR to taking the test on the desk and in email THREE WEEKS ago stated you SHOULD answer all the questions....I got a 60 anyway, I'm just trying to ease some of your minds, either I'm thinking way too much or you guys clearly didn't get the letter prior, and I'm giving dcas waaaaayyyy too much credit. If you took the Nassau tests you'd understand. It was a little similar, good luck. In a year you guys can cram my page with me being wrong, just my opinion especially when I put it all together...sorry just had to cut in paste in this I thought I made a good point in this... Too tired to redo...

-- Edited by the ringer on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 02:23:07 PM

lets not forget this was the first go around for experiments, who is to say they will do this again?

if they do, perhaps the NEXT exam will be mixed in?

It just does not make sense to mix in experiments/toss outs if you got it CORRECT, within the exam in itself. Meaning... you got the experiment question CORRECT but got a "regular" question wrong. Does that really show who is qualified to be promoted?

You still got a question correct. experiment or NOT. Its a damn good argument. How would they also NUMBER the answer key?

1-16, 20, 22,23,24, 27, 28,29,34, so on so on?

It just does not look proper or correct to do such a thing.

This is why I think there is something else brewing and strong chance that its either a CURVE or a last 30 are toss outs.

-- Edited by yougonow on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 02:29:30 PM

I am not in the palace and do not have any inside connections however this is why the last 30 DO NOT count!!! I received an email from DCAS 3 weeks prior to the test that stated "there will be research questions that are in the test and you SHOULD answer all the questions. Apparently they are having problems with sabbath observers etc getting answers to test this way they believe the 130 will count and have to study longer than they thought.  Further states the Mayor executive question MAY be included in the test.... Think bout it, why are they NOT GIVING an answer key? Answer because they want to do this every year and want everyone to take all 130 questions! If you find out , the questions are 1-100 then why would anyone do all 130 next time? Not giving anything away however there were 2 questions in that test that I'm sure tricked a few, that seemed easy while taking it, 1st the EVIDENCE question and 2nd the Mayor executive question...After someone confirms they all took the test I will reveal the correct answers. It will leave you shaking your heads... 

Arrow wrote:

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pingu343 wrote:

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I had to register to post this. really people, stop it with the last 30 wont count. On the front of the question booklet, it was printed in clear letters, there are 30 additional questions "though out" the test which will be used for research purposes. However, you are recommended to answer all 130 questions.

How much more clear can one be? they didn't say the first 30, they didn't say the last 30.  If going be some people and their family member in DCAS, only the last 30 are research questions, then DCAS just simply lied in print, on their test booklet. You really think they would open themselves up for a lawsuit by lying like that?

It was unfair, the additional questions, of course, but no matter how you cut it now, it's pretty simple. DCAS knows the reserach questions, which are mixed up with the rest and they will throw them out and that'll be that. It'll benefit some people, it'll hurt some people, but everyone will move on and people not making the list will take the next test. Sorry.

-- Edited by pingu343 on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 03:29:21 PM

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 This is what the ammended NOE says

"The multiple-choice test will contain additional questions which will be used for research purposes only. These questions will not count toward your test score and will not be included in the protest review process. However, you should answer all questions in the test booklet".

it says we should answer all the question not MUST answer. And my other point in the amended NOE doesn't say that the research questions will be mixed in. It says aditional questions. We found this out on the day of the exam. DCAS Made a mistake there. There is something legal that can be done. this an integrity issue by doing this. and buy not telling is which were the 30 questions.  So explain this. 

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 I mean, if you're gonna focus on the wording, "should" vs. "Must" then I don't know what to say.  The first email I got from DCAS mentioned additional questions.  It didn't mention how many and it didn't mention if they will be at the end.  But I'm telling you what the instructions on the test booklet said.  And that was clear as day, 30 additional question mixed "through out" the test.  They simply won't go back on that and say, oh the last 30 were research. 

At this point, it really sucks for people who didn't do the last 30, weren't able to do the last 30 due to time constraints.  But the dcas instructions were very clear on the test day.  They're gonna go by what they instructed on the booklet.

-- Edited by pingu343 on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 03:48:53 PM

Also for everyone to go to DCAS and get their answers DCAS is making $8,000!!!!!! A $1 per answer !!!

Ringer why are you so sure explain yourself???? 

Lu..

He did state his theory already.

You make sense ringer. Hope you are right. 

the ringer wrote:

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I am not in the palace and do not have any inside connections however this is why the last 30 DO NOT count!!! I received an email from DCAS 3 weeks prior to the test that stated "there will be research questions that are in the test and you SHOULD answer all the questions. Apparently they are having problems with sabbath observers etc getting answers to test this way they believe the 130 will count and have to study longer than they thought.  Further states the Mayor executive question MAY be included in the test.... Think bout it, why are they NOT GIVING an answer key? Answer because they want to do this every year and want everyone to take all 130 questions! If you find out , the questions are 1-100 then why would anyone do all 130 next time? Not giving anything away however there were 2 questions in that test that I'm sure tricked a few, that seemed easy while taking it, 1st the EVIDENCE question and 2nd the Mayor executive question...After someone confirms they all took the test I will reveal the correct answers. It will leave you shaking your heads... 

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 You refute your own statement.

"Think bout it, why are they NOT GIVING an answer key? Answer because they want to do this every year and want everyone to take all 130 questions! If you find out , the questions are 1-100 then why would anyone do all 130 next time?"

But the fact is everyone or almost everyone will at some point have an answer key and would find out it's the last 30 that were the non counting questions. Even if you don't go to the protest session to view the proposed answer key, one person from this forum will definitely go, immediately upon exiting the protest session that person will go to their car and post "The last 30 were the non counting questions" thus making everyone in future years simply not take the last 30 questions. The 30 practice questions were distributed throughout the test. Most probably in a normal distribution, meaning about 6 of every 25 questions didn't count. 

Now mind this. Probability is a beautiful thing. if you got 91/130 which equals a 70%, probability is you got a 70% on the 100 real question test. Obviously there is some room for movement (statistical error), however if you got say 104/130 I would say with 99% confidence you passed this test. (There's two assumptions here, 1. the sample questions were evenly distributed throughout the test, 2. the sample questions were no harder or easier than the real questions.)

Ohnoes, yougonnow, had what I was trying to in a way. The next time the will mix in the research questions, and by doing so, it will most likely be told ahead of time with extra time on top of it. I honestly think it's a good idea, the research part 

OK I get your point now.

ohnoes wrote:

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Agreed a basic assumption is we are assuming that this will happen again.
However, this is a practice on most standardized exams. Just doing a quick search I found "sample" questions were used in the SAT, ACT, LSAT, and NY Bar Exam. They use the questions to attempt to make the next test more fair by testing out the questions to make sure an acceptable amount of people get them correct.

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 why? it is not like we have an epedemic of failures or not enough promotions. we have plenty.

It still makes no sense. So now they made up those questions.. ok.. they are NOT going to be incorporated in the next exam.. so.. they still need NEW questions. Whats the point if you STILL need to make new questions.

Am I explaining it right?

Its a city exam, far from a BAR, SAT, ACT..whatever.

I dont know.

The time frame sucks bad, but everyone who took the exam had the same amount of time. No one got an unfair advantage so no appeal, lawsuit, or anything else you want to call it is going to get off the ground.

pingu343 wrote:

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I had to register to post this. really people, stop it with the last 30 wont count. On the front of the question booklet, it was printed in clear letters, there are 30 additional questions "though out" the test which will be used for research purposes. However, you are recommended to answer all 130 questions.

How much more clear can one be? they didn't say the first 30, they didn't say the last 30.  If going be some people and their family member in DCAS, only the last 30 are research questions, then DCAS just simply lied in print, on their test booklet. You really think they would open themselves up for a lawsuit by lying like that?

It was unfair, the additional questions, of course, but no matter how you cut it now, it's pretty simple. DCAS knows the reserach questions, which are mixed up with the rest and they will throw them out and that'll be that. It'll benefit some people, it'll hurt some people, but everyone will move on and people not making the list will take the next test. Sorry.

-- Edited by pingu343 on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 03:29:21 PM

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 This is what the ammended NOE says

"The multiple-choice test will contain additional questions which will be used for research purposes only. These questions will not count toward your test score and will not be included in the protest review process. However, you should answer all questions in the test booklet".

it says we should answer all the question not MUST answer. And my other point in the amended NOE doesn't say that the research questions will be mixed in. It says aditional questions. We found this out on the day of the exam. DCAS Made a mistake there. There is something legal that can be done. this an integrity issue by doing this. and buy not telling is which were the 30 questions.  So explain this. 

If in the instructions prior to starting the exam it was clearly stated that 30 additional questions will be mixed throughout the exam for research purposes, then stop beating the dead horse. I know it sucks you guys had 130 questions with the same time allotment, but in the end DCAS decided to leave the exam time @ 6 hours, which was totally within their rights to do. After all, they do decide how much time to allot in the first place for all promotional exams. If they wanted to give 4 hours for these exams, they could. One of the first, most important rules of taking any important exam is to fully and thoroughly read ALL instructions prior to commencing the exam..... Exactly for exams like this one.

Well stated que1999. Couldn't agree more

HAS ANY OF THE KEY INSTRUCTORS COMMENTED ABOUT THE EXAM???? THERE WERE 6500 PEOPLE WHO TOOK THE TEST, THE FAIREST THING TO DO IS THROW OUT 30 WRONG ANSWERS FROM EVERYONES EXAM. THIS WILL MAKE THE LIST PROBABLY 3000 NAMES LONG BUT NO ONE COULD SUE, WHINE, OR BITCH ABOUT THINGS BEING UNFAIR. LET DCAS AND THE NYPD HIRE THE HIGHEST 1500 PEOPLE OFF THE LIST THEN CUT IT. I SPOKE TO THE GUY WHO CREATED THE KEY COURSE ON CRAM 3 OF THE SGT CLASS AND HE SAID HE SPOKE TO THE HEAD OF DCAS ABOUT THE EXAM AND THEN SAID TO ME MAKE SURE YOU FOCUS ON THE FIRST 100 QUESTIONS ONCE YOU FINISH THOSE DONT LEAVE THE OTHER QUESTIONS BLANK JUST TRY TO GET TO THEM.

The test is made to mess with your head. The cover of the booklet you can disregard. That needed to be told ahed of time. And if they're saying you "should" answer all the questions they do NOT need to give you more time

Maybe they wanted to see who could handle the pressure? Everyone should have finished at least the 1 - 100

Usually they also have a proctor come in and try to mess with your head and say, for example, question 22, choice A should read blah blah blah. Then test takers are thinking mmmm maybe that's the right answer. They mind fudge you, that's why I say disregard that first page. If I'm wrong blast this page, if I'm right tell the PC I should be a Captain.

-- Edited by the ringer on Thursday 24th of October 2013 12:26:09 PM

They don't have to give you extra Time got the questions cause you "should" answer the questions not "must". They count your test even if you didn't finish.....we will see

      I have always completely disagreed with doing the in basket last. Regardless of how long the exam was, most people are         A.    fried by late in the exam. The in basket requires maximum attention and focus, which is difficult to achieve after sitting in a.      the same seat for three hours.

       Also, if you were in danger of not finishing, wouldn't you want to use that time to answer questions that require very little a      knowledge of the patrol guide?


If you had 2 hours left and have the option of doing 30 extra questions and getting 70% of those right or doing the inbasket with 16 questions and let's pretend for a moment and say you can get 90% of those right. So if you do the extra 30 you get 21 question right. If you do the 16 inbasket questions you get 14 questions right. It's smarter to do the extra 30 and skip the inbasket you end up with more correct answers and a greater probability of passing

-- Edited by jaribu on Friday 25th of October 2013 11:10:14 PM