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DeptIsaJoke · Veteran Member

My Tier 3 colleagues, Will you leave at 20?

CaptSkirt · Newbie

The 5% is based off the base salary of the highest rate in each rank (Det 1st grade, Ssa/Ssd, LSA/LCD). This means you take your final # whatever it is for the year and add 5% of the base rate of the specific rank - for LSA thats a little over 170,000 right now. So lets say you made 220,000 you final year you add $8511 (170,232 x .05 (5%)). This means your final pension numbers would be based off 228,511. So the 5% retention gives you ~$355 extra in your pension per month. Obviously with each raise it will increase but its not something specifically worth staying for. If you planned on doing 25 anyway its a nice bonus but I will not be staying 5 years for $355

-- Edited by CaptSkirt on Thursday 15th of May 2025 09:58:47 AM

fiftyfouredp · Senior Member

NauseousPBBN wrote:
If you assume top pay LSA at 250k.

Stopped reading

El Norte · Senior Member

CaptSkirt wrote:
The 5% is based off the base salary of the highest rate in each rank (Det 1st grade, Ssa/Ssd, LSA/LCD). This means you take your final # whatever it is for the year and add 5% of the base rate of the specific rank - for LSA thats a little over 170,000 right now. So lets say you made 220,000 you final year you add $8511 (170,232 x .005 (5%)). This means your final pension numbers would be based off 228,511. So the 5% retention gives you ~$355 extra in your pension per month. Obviously with each raise it will increase but its not something specifically worth staying for. If you planned on doing 25 anyway its a nice bonus but I will not be staying 5 years for $355

An extra $355 for having the job breaking your balls for turning on your body cam after you stepped one foot outside the RMP hardly seems worth it for five years. Hope were calculating it wrong, but if thats the case I can see how many wont view it as an incentive.

NYTIMES · Veteran Member

Yes Captskirt did calculate it wrong. 5% is 0.05, not 0.005.

CaptSkirt · Newbie

Yes I fixed it. i typed incorrectly but the math is correct

Xchris176 · Senior Member

CaptSkirt wrote:
Yes I fixed it. i typed incorrectly but the math is correct

Whats the regular math for the 228,000 staying 20 years calculation?

CaptSkirt · Newbie

Xchris176 wrote:
CaptSkirt wrote:
Yes I fixed it. i typed incorrectly but the math is correct
Whats the regular math for the 228,000 staying 20 years calculation?

I just used 220,000 bc thats a good approximation of what a top pay Lt with night diff and steady Ot will make. You could use any number you want as final salary but the 5% number wont change until next step of contract. So after March of next year the 5% will be based off 177,042 so it brings the # up to 8,852 added to your final salary. So in 2026 that 5% would add ~368 per month (8852/2/12 - 50% of what was added / 12 months). Obviously with each raise thereafter it will increase the amount but personally I do not think that alone should be deciding factor. Its a great bump for those that were gonna stay already and it didnt cost anything so its a win / win

Xchris176 · Senior Member

CaptSkirt wrote:
Xchris176 wrote:
CaptSkirt wrote:
Yes I fixed it. i typed incorrectly but the math is correct
Whats the regular math for the 228,000 staying 20 years calculation?
I just used 220,000 bc thats a good approximation of what a top pay Lt with night diff and steady Ot will make. You could use any number you want as final salary but the 5% number wont change until next step of contract. So after March of next year the 5% will be based off 177,042 so it brings the # up to 8,852 added to your final salary. So in 2026 that 5% would add ~368 per month (8852/2/12 - 50% of what was added / 12 months). Obviously with each raise thereafter it will increase the amount but personally I do not think that alone should be deciding factor. Its a great bump for those that were gonna stay already and it didnt cost anything so its a win / win

Thank you for the brake down

fiftyfouredp · Senior Member

"Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, when a detective, sergeant, or lieutenant shall have accrued twenty-five years of uniformed service with the New York city police department, and retires after having served three years in any such rank, they shall have five per centum of the highest grade of pay under the applicable collective bargaining agreement of such rank in which they retire, for a period of time aggregating two years, added to the applicable salary, used for the purposes of computing pension benefits under the plan in which they are enrolled with the New York city police pension fund."

What is this 2 years thing?

So is the 5% added to our FAS or is it added to the last two years and then our FAS is calculated? Seems like the second one to me, which sucks because this screws Tier 3 a little bit more, as is tradition.

Jibberjab · Senior Member

While I know everyone at this moment is excited for 20 year retirement and many will be 20 and out, the union still has work to do to make things right. If they want to help with retention, getting the 60th back will be a huge win. Not to mention the disaster of the social security offset which sounds criminal. Those 2 things need to be next on the agenda for the unions.

Tier3scum · Senior Member

I spoke to a PBA delegate yesterday and was told thats the next fight, but doesnt seem like its gonna happen with this budget. I also spoke to vallelong personally at a meeting. The PBA is the ones who need to be pushing this. Obviously anyone coming on the job is right into tier 3 so they have the most members who suffer from this. When I brought this up to the SBA I asked are they throwing their support behind this as well seeing as tier 3 is coming up on 16 years. They said the PBA doesnt want anyone co signing this, they want their names all over it. So it sounded like the PBA wanted all the glory. Who knows whats true. All these presidents are going to lie to make themselves look better. Either way they need to get it fixed asap.

-- Edited by Tier3scum on Thursday 15th of May 2025 05:58:36 PM

standbyfor63 · Member

Tier3scum wrote:
I spoke to a PBA delegate yesterday and was told thats the next fight, but doesnt seem like its gonna happen with this budget. I also spoke to vallelong personally at a meeting. The PBA is the ones who need to be pushing this. Obviously anyone coming on the job is right into tier 3 so they have the most members who suffer from this. When I brought this up to the SBA I asked are they throwing their support behind this as well seeing as tier 3 is coming up on 16 years. They said the PBA doesnt want anyone co signing this, they want their names all over it. So it sounded like the PBA wanted all the glory. Who knows whats true. All these presidents are going to lie to make themselves look better. Either way they need to get it fixed asap.

-- Edited by Tier3scum on Thursday 15th of May 2025 05:58:36 PM

Hey...so...when you spoke to Vallelong personally...he didn't happen to tell you when the raise would kick in or when we can expect the retro check did he? Figured its a question he might have been able to answer. (Asking for a friend)

-- Edited by standbyfor63 on Thursday 15th of May 2025 06:07:39 PM

Tier3scum · Senior Member

No sorry. This was right before the contract was ratified. And even voted on. But it was an open forum to ask any questions and thats the one I went with

El Norte · Senior Member

fiftyfouredp wrote:
"Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, when a detective, sergeant, or lieutenant shall have accrued twenty-five years of uniformed service with the New York city police department, and retires after having served three years in any such rank, they shall have five per centum of the highest grade of pay under the applicable collective bargaining agreement of such rank in which they retire, for a period of time aggregating two years, added to the applicable salary, used for the purposes of computing pension benefits under the plan in which they are enrolled with the New York city police pension fund."
What is this 2 years thing?
So is the 5% added to our FAS or is it added to the last two years and then our FAS is calculated? Seems like the second one to me, which sucks because this screws Tier 3 a little bit more, as is tradition.

I thought you had to do 25 years in any rank and Youd get the 5% for the rank you retire in. This sounds like you would have to do 3 years in that rank.

-- Edited by El Norte on Thursday 15th of May 2025 10:45:20 PM

fiftyfouredp · Senior Member

El Norte wrote:
fiftyfouredp wrote:
"Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, when a detective, sergeant, or lieutenant shall have accrued twenty-five years of uniformed service with the New York city police department, and retires after having served three years in any such rank, they shall have five per centum of the highest grade of pay under the applicable collective bargaining agreement of such rank in which they retire, for a period of time aggregating two years, added to the applicable salary, used for the purposes of computing pension benefits under the plan in which they are enrolled with the New York city police pension fund."
What is this 2 years thing?
So is the 5% added to our FAS or is it added to the last two years and then our FAS is calculated? Seems like the second one to me, which sucks because this screws Tier 3 a little bit more, as is tradition.
I thought you had to do 25 years in any rank and Youd get the 5% for the rank you retire in. This sounds like you would have to do 3 years in that rank.

-- Edited by El Norte on Thursday 15th of May 2025 10:45:20 PM

Yes you have to do 3 years in that rank. But, its also the highest grade, which means it might be 5% of SSA pay added to regular Sgt FAS, and 5% of LSA added to a Lts FAS. But again, very confusing.

NauseousPBBN · Senior Member

The way its written it appears they add the 5% of SSA/LSA to two of the 3 years used before the average. Like you said very confusing.

Truthseeker · Guru

Is it just for tier 3 or tier 2 as well?

speedyx · Member

DeptIsaJoke wrote:
I'm pretty certain cola is written in our agreement to be up 3 percent, not actually or guaranteed 3%. So it can change yearly based on what the city feels like paying. Does anyone know the % they paid the last 10 year's?

-- Edited by DeptIsaJoke on Wednesday 14th of May 2025 01:49:04 PM

With Escalation its based off the CPI. From what the pension section has sent me, its not a direct 1:1 but its not too far off. They sent me this chart

2022 7.04%

2021 1.36%

2020 2.29%

2019 1.91%

2018 2.11%

2017 2.07%

2016 0.73%

2015 0.76%

2014 1.50%

2013 1.74%

2012 2.96%

2011 1.50%

2010 2.72%

It is calculated by the office of the actuary. If Escalation exceeds 3% it is banked and applied to future years where escalation was less then 3%. If it is negative then yes your pension can decrease, but never below what you started with at retirement. Escalation does compound and is for your entire pension.

As for the SS offset, I am willing to bet it will be removed well before anyone is eligible for social security. The closest tier 3 guy is probably still probably about 10 years away from social security age so plenty of time the fix, the 20 year retirement was definitely a more pressing issue.

I'm sure word will be out for when full escalation will be calculated, whether it will be now 23 years or remain at 25. The tier 3 summary does state it starts on your 22nd anniversary and full escalation is on your 25th anniversary. I'm sure the pension section will clarify soon enough.

Make sure you guys are contributing and hopefully maxing out your 457, with no ithp and 50/50 our 457 is the next best thing we got to supplement our pensions upon retirement.