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SturdyHairBag · Member

RE: Executive Meeting w/ DCAS on 3/22/18

jovin · Veteran Member

I love when people on here put "take it or leave it" after there post as if that is suppose to add extra truth to the lies that u are spreading. There is not a chance over 200 people scored a 95+. Just wait for the list and stop spreading fake news.

Leslie · Guru

SturdyHairBag wrote:
brooklynbacon wrote:
MBREEZE wrote:
Leslie wrote:
redcons2 wrote:
I know this is the first time the points are scaled so we might not know the answer. My question is about adding on military points, JST points, time in rank, etc. Do those points get added in before or after the scores are scaled?
After. The scaling applies to raw score. My question is whether the list of 1287 has the scaling alrealdy applied or is that pre-scaling because if its pre-scaling it could take a whole lot longer..
After. The 1287 is the final list. I also saw the list but didn't want to add that here. It did not have list numbers because all of the points are not done being added. JST is done and Vets are coming up. I can't speak on medals. Once all of that is added then the list is sent back to DCAS to create the list numbers and then the OFFICIAL list with numbers is sent back to the department. The department will then do the IAB and OEEO checks for promotions and a BMOC class will be made. The rumor is end of April for Lt BMOC but don't be surprised if its in May. When the Sgt list was published the IAB and OEEO checks took less than a week and the class went in the following week so you never know. But for those looking for an actual number of Sgts on the list it is 1287. Before anyone starts talking about the list being cut, there is no talk of cutting any promotional list. DCAS will not administer another exam until the list is almost exhausted. If the 4 years is up and there are still ppl on the list, it will be extended. This new process just sucks for those who are waiting to take the next Sgt, Lt or Cpt exam.

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:46:00 PM

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:55:30 PM

Can anyone tell me how many promotional exams were extended in the last 20 years? Its a pretty easy answer...

The job will not run a list 6 years, not including the 1 year waiting for the list, just so people in the 60s will get promoted.
Having one ongoing promotional list for 7 years is insane and delusional and will never happen.
I was gonna say the same thing but didn't want to be attacked lol.

2022 is a long time from now, I'm sure MBREEZE has good sources but remember, the entire city administration will be different as will the upper levels of our department. To make a call now for what happens in 2022 is just plain silly... Like I said, it sounds like MBREEZE has good sources, but even his source in this case I don't think can make that call.

Im pretty sure an extention needs approval and reasons behind the extension have to be more than just getting the test extended to make everyone on the list. I know another department where they were able to extend a civil service exam due to the recession that hit us in 2008 which was a fair reason however that list also go cut later on after the extension was approved saving some.

DRPapi1983 · Guru

But for arguments sake, if it is true that 200+ scored a 90/95 or better,.then people with a 80 may die in on the list??? The cut off would be in the 80s,..job doesnt promote too many Lt as is plus not that many retire or want to move up.

brooklynbacon · Guru

Theres no way 200+ scored a 95+ lol.

On the sgts list of 2600 people there were 92 people who got a 95+.

Theres something called averages and most will be sandwiched in the 75 to 85 bracket. So if our list had 200 people with a 95 then our list size should be close to 5200.

DRPapi1983 · Guru

brooklynbacon wrote:
Theres no way 200+ scored a 95+ lol.

On the sgts list of 2600 people there were 92 people who got a 95+.

Theres something called averages and most will be sandwiched in the 75 to 85 bracket. So if our list had 200 people with a 95 then our list size should be close to 5200.

True statement. so we Have to questions these peoples intel,.lol,...its just not realistic

Leslie · Guru

Does anyone know what happens when you have vacation on your promotion date or right after the promotion date? Do you not get promoted or forced to cancel a scheduled vacation?!? Only reason is I have two weeks vacation this year and will be out of the country..

-- Edited by Leslie on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 09:12:58 PM

Missing the Bx · Veteran Member

Leslie wrote:
Does anyone know what happens when you have vacation on your promotion date or right after the promotion date? Do you not get promoted or forced to cancel a scheduled vacation?!? Only reason is I have two weeks vacation this year and will be out of the country..

-- Edited by Leslie on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 09:12:58 PM

You get promoted when you get back From vacation. Then you have option to go to next ceremony.

TooSucio4u · Senior Member

Go on vacation. Dont lose those chart days lol

brooklynbacon · Guru

Leslie wrote:
Does anyone know what happens when you have vacation on your promotion date or right after the promotion date? Do you not get promoted or forced to cancel a scheduled vacation?!? Only reason is I have two weeks vacation this year and will be out of the country..

-- Edited by Leslie on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 09:12:58 PM

I would decline the promotion and keep my charts days.

In all seriousness walking across the stage is not a prerequisite to get promoted.

You will get promoted when you get back in a closed door heres your shield congrats meeting.

Leslie · Guru

Awesome. Thanks for the info phew tickets are already paid for and I definitely dont want to defer. Gotta take it when it comes..

Leslie · Guru

Does anyone think the new grading system will hold up the list in any way? Like some bs lawsuit..

DRPapi1983 · Guru

Leslie wrote:
Does anyone think the new grading system will hold up the list in any way? Like some bs lawsuit..

Who knows but its a possibility ,..anyone can sue for anything ,..

Brian Earl Spilner · Veteran Member

Drstylez12 · Senior Member

Leslie wrote:
Does anyone think the new grading system will hold up the list in any way? Like some bs lawsuit..

From the sounds of it, sounds like its the fairest way to do these exams and avoid he cheating that happen in the past, but thats just my take on it.

fodx · Guru

brooklynbacon wrote:
Leslie wrote:
Does anyone know what happens when you have vacation on your promotion date or right after the promotion date? Do you not get promoted or forced to cancel a scheduled vacation?!? Only reason is I have two weeks vacation this year and will be out of the country..

-- Edited by Leslie on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 09:12:58 PM
I would decline the promotion and keep my charts days.

I second this statement. Should you make the list and not get promoted for whatever reason you have the biggest silver lining you could ask for.. CHART DAYS!!!

Leslie · Guru

fodx wrote:
brooklynbacon wrote:
Leslie wrote:
Does anyone know what happens when you have vacation on your promotion date or right after the promotion date? Do you not get promoted or forced to cancel a scheduled vacation?!? Only reason is I have two weeks vacation this year and will be out of the country..

-- Edited by Leslie on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 09:12:58 PM
I would decline the promotion and keep my charts days.

I second this statement. Should you make the list and not get promoted for whatever reason you have the biggest silver lining you could ask for.. CHART DAYS!!!

Lol you guys should all decline the promotions and keeps your chart days so I can move up the list lmao

AWOL4Life · Veteran Member

If we look at the actions taken by the job in the last year and half plus, it's clear that the new strategy is to get larger lists and fewer exams;

1-the job mass-promoted the remaining 250 people from the 2013 sgts exam (minus those held up) in order to give as many people as possible a chance to take this test (maybe knowing another would not come around for quite a long time)
2-This last LT exam turns out to be the fairest exam in a long time. Being that this followed what was the most unfair exam ever, which created a lawsuit and headlines that embarrassed the department, I don't think it's a leap to say this demonstrates that it was a job directive to make this exam very straightforward and thus guaranteeing an unusually large list.
3-The new way of grading or "scaling" exams to balance out OG tests and Make up tests. No matter what your theory is of why the scaling actually happens, there is no arguing that it adds more people to any exam list.

This strategy of bigger lists and fewer exams is beneficial to the job.
a) By adding people to the list who may have otherwise failed narrowly, the job takes away many potential lawsuits, but IS NOT obligated to actually promote them. Yea you made the list after scoring 60 originally, but will you get promoted before the 4 year expiration? Probably not. The city still gets to promote top performers and cut the legal standing of lawsuits. Much harder to make a legal argument about the fairness of an exam when you only made it due to scaled grading.
b) Fewer exams = larger pool of test takers AND a hungrier pool of test takers. If all tests at each rank come around once every 4 years and are very straightforward, then passing alone isn't good enough. You will have to assume that only passing with a good score in the 80's or so will get you promoted. Fewer tests also = lower operating costs to make the exams (a small point I know, but still true).

IDK if this is good or bad for rank and file cops, but I think its obvious it works for the city as this strategy is also a device to push guys/gals to stay on the job passed the requisite 20 years. Win, Win for the city.

RS2323 · Senior Member

Has anyone sent a foil request to dcas since we know the list is available now?

Leslie · Guru

RS2323 wrote:
Has anyone sent a foil request to dcas since we know the list is available now?

I have sent two requests with no responses. I doubt DCAS will respond to anything in detail until they actually certify the list

Flambino · Senior Member

@Awol4life Agree with you 100%. Bratton sent out a finest looking for people to write the test that stated he wanted to restore integrity to the testing process.

-- Edited by Flambino on Thursday 29th of March 2018 02:26:43 PM

Leslie · Guru

neverAgain wrote:
sorry for talking to much BUT I DID HEAR A LARGE NUMBER IF PPL ON THE LIST DIDNT HAVE ENOUGH TIME SO IT GOING TO BE ALOT OF JUMPING AROUND ON THIS LIST AND IM TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN 50% SOO IF YOUR IN THE LOW 80s DONT COUNT YOURSELF OUT

I heard the same. Like maybe only 600 are eligible for the promotion if it gets established today. They simply dont have enough time in rank to get promoted

fodx · Guru

Youre telling me that out of 1286 people, more than half don't have two years in rank as a Sgt? I find that hard to believe.

Leslie · Guru

fodx wrote:
Youre telling me that out of 1286 people, more than half don't have two years in rank as a Sgt? I find that hard to believe.

Yes sir, thats what Im saying. Im not the only thats heard it, people from the last Sgts list are just coming up on their 2 years in rank. I guess most people who took and failed the last two disasters decided not to go hard on this one

CappedOut · Senior Member

I think they just pushed FAIR AND STRAIGHT FORWARD for the test writers and we ended up with easier exams. That plus having to scale the exam for make ups (they would never scale it down to the harder exam) adds even more names to the list. I dont think there was any alternative motive (minorities, avoid lawsuits, less exams etc). Just a more fair exam and curve to match original tests with make ups. Perfect storm for a big list.

fodx · Guru

I really hope that's true because those people get just about no longevity points which means it'll bump the rest of us up a little. Combine that With a few points from throwuts and who knows I might get promoted in four years

-- Edited by fodx on Thursday 29th of March 2018 05:28:43 PM

4th Time · Senior Member

How many years in rank do you have to do before getting promoted to LT now.??

Leslie · Guru

2 years. I know for a fact was the first class of 2013 and have a vested interest

-- Edited by Leslie on Thursday 29th of March 2018 05:38:34 PM

4th Time · Senior Member

oh ok..

Thanks

SRGrook033 · Senior Member

is it 210 added after make-up exam or a curve?>

SRGrook033 · Senior Member

neverAgain wrote:
Only 210 was added after throw out which is very good no trolling
i saw the list but the list had NO list numbers

is it 210 added after make-up exam or a curve?>

TooSucio4u · Senior Member

Since April 2016 about 700+ were promoted off the 2013 test. I highly doubt 600 of those passed this LT exam in the high 90s and wont be eligible for promotion. Most of Sgts I know that passed have way more than the required 2 years in rank.

-- Edited by TooSucio4u on Thursday 29th of March 2018 08:58:42 PM

Leslie · Guru

TooSucio4u wrote:
Since April 2016 about 700+ were promoted off the 2013 test. I highly doubt 600 of those passed this LT exam in the high 90s and wont be eligible for promotion. Most of Sgts I know that passed have way more than the required 2 years in rank.

-- Edited by TooSucio4u on Thursday 29th of March 2018 08:58:42 PM

Thats what I heard half the list as of now. Take it or leave it. I just hope theyre all ahead of me on the list

SRGrook033 · Senior Member

MBREEZE wrote:
Leslie wrote:
redcons2 wrote:
I know this is the first time the points are scaled so we might not know the answer. My question is about adding on military points, JST points, time in rank, etc. Do those points get added in before or after the scores are scaled?
After. The scaling applies to raw score. My question is whether the list of 1287 has the scaling alrealdy applied or is that pre-scaling because if its pre-scaling it could take a whole lot longer..
After. The 1287 is the final list. I also saw the list but didn't want to add that here. It did not have list numbers because all of the points are not done being added. JST is done and Vets are coming up. I can't speak on medals. Once all of that is added then the list is sent back to DCAS to create the list numbers and then the OFFICIAL list with numbers is sent back to the department. The department will then do the IAB and OEEO checks for promotions and a BMOC class will be made. The rumor is end of April for Lt BMOC but don't be surprised if its in May. When the Sgt list was published the IAB and OEEO checks took less than a week and the class went in the following week so you never know. But for those looking for an actual number of Sgts on the list it is 1287. Before anyone starts talking about the list being cut, there is no talk of cutting any promotional list. DCAS will not administer another exam until the list is almost exhausted. If the 4 years is up and there are still ppl on the list, it will be extended. This new process just sucks for those who are waiting to take the next Sgt, Lt or Cpt exam.

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:46:00 PM

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:55:30 PM

Any way u can take a quick peek at theblist again? And get the # of passers between 90-100? Any rumor on a size of 1st class ?

HeetMiser · Member

SRGrook033 wrote:
MBREEZE wrote:
Leslie wrote:
redcons2 wrote:
I know this is the first time the points are scaled so we might not know the answer. My question is about adding on military points, JST points, time in rank, etc. Do those points get added in before or after the scores are scaled?
After. The scaling applies to raw score. My question is whether the list of 1287 has the scaling alrealdy applied or is that pre-scaling because if its pre-scaling it could take a whole lot longer..
After. The 1287 is the final list. I also saw the list but didn't want to add that here. It did not have list numbers because all of the points are not done being added. JST is done and Vets are coming up. I can't speak on medals. Once all of that is added then the list is sent back to DCAS to create the list numbers and then the OFFICIAL list with numbers is sent back to the department. The department will then do the IAB and OEEO checks for promotions and a BMOC class will be made. The rumor is end of April for Lt BMOC but don't be surprised if its in May. When the Sgt list was published the IAB and OEEO checks took less than a week and the class went in the following week so you never know. But for those looking for an actual number of Sgts on the list it is 1287. Before anyone starts talking about the list being cut, there is no talk of cutting any promotional list. DCAS will not administer another exam until the list is almost exhausted. If the 4 years is up and there are still ppl on the list, it will be extended. This new process just sucks for those who are waiting to take the next Sgt, Lt or Cpt exam.

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:46:00 PM

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 06:55:30 PM
Any way u can take a quick peek at theblist again? And get the # of passers between 90-100? Any rumor on a size of 1st class ?

Can u look at the list again and see if I,m there? I didn't go to the protest session, my name is John Coosttifrooski

brooklynbacon · Guru

Lts bmoc is three weeks no?

Brian Earl Spilner · Veteran Member

Changed it to 7 weeks

brooklynbacon · Guru

Brian Earl Spilner wrote:
Changed it to 7 weeks

I would love that. I wish it could be 52 weeks.

SRGrook033 · Senior Member

brooklynbacon wrote:
Lts bmoc is three weeks no?

3 weeks unless they added CIT training to it as they did with Sgt bmoc.

fodx · Guru

Guys hope and pray its 7 weeks or even more. It means more weeks you get to keep your chart days.

crappants · Senior Member

@ fodx who cares about chart days. Everybody that comes to this forum wants to be a lieutenant not a sergeant . Chart days this chart days that im tired of reading about chart days on the lieutenant board.

fodx · Guru

Part of being a Lieutenant is losing your chart days, so you're gonna hear about it. Consider it a public service message.

-- Edited by fodx on Saturday 31st of March 2018 03:37:57 PM

brooklynbacon · Guru

crappants wrote:
@ fodx who cares about chart days. Everybody that comes to this forum wants to be a lieutenant not a sergeant . Chart days this chart days that im tired of reading about chart days on the lieutenant board.

Im pretty sure hes joking at this point.

And you dont gain chart days in Lt bmoc. You get promoted up front.

crappants · Senior Member

@brooklynbacon AND! Duh