It's not too late! Order your 2023 Lieutenant Exam "Just the Questions" for only $349 Visit www.RisingStarPromotion.com to order over 1400 questions specifically designed for maximum retention of the Patrol Guide--plus full-length exams!

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: NOE Legitimacy


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 4
Date:
NOE Legitimacy


Again, I rarely come on this site but I have to put to bed some flawed logic I keep observing which is quite disturbing because it is not complicated. The following is the paragraph right out of our NOE regarding testing subjects:

 

"The test MAY INCLUDE questions which require mastery of technical knowledge based on SUCH MATERIALS AS the NYCPD Patrol Guide, Administrative Guide, Interim Orders, Legal Bureau Bulletins, New York State Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law, Family Court Act, Vehicle & Traffic Laws (VTL) and Mayor's Executive Order No. 16 of 1978, as amended, and MAY ADDRESS any of the following areas: Aided Cases; Accidents; Complaints; Summonses; Arrests; Prisoners; Property; Court and Agency Appearances; Patrol Supervision; Special Patrol Operations; Disciplinary Matters; Personnel Matters; Uniforms, Equipment and Department Property, in effect up to and including January 18, 2015.

The test MAY ALSO INCLUDE questions which require the use of any of the following abilities:"

 

Now look how open-ended "MAY INCLUDE QUESTIONS" on "SUCH MATERIALS AS" is and also the areas the test "MAY ADDRESS." It clearly is not a definitive statement and it implies that the items listed are NOT all-inclusive. MAY and SUCH AS and MAY ADDRESS as used here clearly mean "here are some examples." What this boils down to is that other items in addition to what are listed may also be on the test, like Ops Orders or CCRG.

 

And regarding the one question that had the correct answer that included the one person/unit that was added after the cutoff date, please keep in mind that we are instructed to pick the MOST CORRECT answer. Given that the other 3 answer choices were so wrong, and the NOE tells us that we are also required to used "Analytical Thinking," "Judgement and Decision-Making," and "Adaptability/Flexibility" then based on those required skills the answer DCAS gave us IS the MOST CORRECT. No, it wasn't the ABSOLUTE correct answer, but because the other 3 choices were so wrong, you would be forced to pick the right answer based on the skills the NOE said you must use.

 

I do wish the 8 Sgts who are suing good luck in their careers and a happy life, but as far as the NOE goes, they are really stretching interpretation to its limits here. They need to let us move on. Commissioner Bratton already stated there will be no more Saturday tests which was the crux of this issue for decades. The exam itself and TVB were not flawed, they were just rediculiously hard and particular.



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 293
Date:

CIS-Request wrote:

And regarding the one question that had the correct answer that included the one person/unit that was added after the cutoff date, please keep in mind that we are instructed to pick the MOST CORRECT answer. Given that the other 3 answer choices were so wrong, and the NOE tells us that we are also required to used "Analytical Thinking," "Judgement and Decision-Making," and "Adaptability/Flexibility" then based on those required skills the answer DCAS gave us IS the MOST CORRECT. No, it wasn't the ABSOLUTE correct answer, but because the other 3 choices were so wrong, you would be forced to pick the right answer based on the skills the NOE said you must use.


Very good post. Also to add to your point about #106, according to Gamblor's key, 85% got this question correct anyway.



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 255
Date:

Unfortunately our interpretation doesn't matter, it all comes down to the Judge's interpretation.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 241
Date:

regarding the question after the cut off date, if im told to study a menu that has turkey, bacon, peas, and carrots listed during the study period and on test day one of the answers says turkey, bacon, peas, carrots, and mashed potatoes, well my friend on a test like this where its designed to trick you with one little word especially lists, then mashed potatoes should come out at you and slap you in the face and say dont pick me, Im the wrong answer! As it did to me on test day. If you want to play the well choose what you think would be the most logical answer given that every single answer was wong, you could argue that other answers could feasibly be more correct and you wouldnt be wrong ( such as the second supervisor on scene makes sure the proper notifications were made, we know its the first supervisor, but analytically thinking you bet your butt that as the incident commander you would want to make sure all the proper notifications were made). For you to argue which wrong answer is most correct is an exercise in ridiculousness. Fact of the matter is they had a question with only wrong answers and they failed to admit their mistake which has lead to a giant catastrophy, and has probably given a lot more life to this lawsuit than it would have if they just corrected the most blatant abuse of the test review process. Now that we can see such an obvious violation of their own rules, we know that the TVB acted in a manner that was "arbitrary and capricious" and it has opened the door on the other questions they failed to change due to whatever agenda they had.....



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us