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DOA · Senior Member

RE: Class action lawsuit

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

UnrealDeal wrote:
Please do not take offense to this, but we need someone more articulate than Windeast leading the charge. At the vey least, someone who is capable of sentence ordering. (Not to mention his painful attempts at comedy I've had to sort thorough over the past 10 months reading this forum. Literally not one funny joke out of dozens of attempts).

UnrealDeal: Windeast has us to back him and will back each other. His weakness may be our strengths. We need someone just like windeast to gather up to troops.. We just need to articulate ourselves enough to speak to our attorney who will represent us. I have seen fools in court win because of great representation.

Zeph · Senior Member

DOA, I appreciate your time in making those points. You convince me that we should explore all avenues.

-- Edited by Zeph on Friday 19th of February 2016 10:03:41 PM

Windeast · Senior Member

I'm not saying I'm the best guy for this... But rather than doing nothing on the sidelines I'm getting involved with as many law firms as I can and see what kind of case we got. I wrote to the media as well, wash at they do with it is up to them. Maybe I don't articulate the way u want, but if there's a case, I'm hoping every soul on this forum joins the cause for a fairer future exam and possibly get some of those protest questions reviewed again and possibly given back to us.

Windeast · Senior Member

I've gotten many phone calls already who are all eager just as I am. People want this. If nothing changes in the end, at least we can say we tried. Then for future exams I will become Jewish.

UnrealDeal · Member

Fair enough. Please continue onward.

Transitblows · Senior Member

Anything with this. Or did we give up

Windeast · Senior Member

So far I've contacted Jerold Levine... Who seems like he doesn't give a crap and wants me to keep calling him back after every excuse he gives me, so he's out. Joseph kilada has not returned my phone calls, so he's out. Finally looks like Kevin sheerin is not returning my phone calls either, even though I sat with him on Monday to discuss the case. I can't believe these people are "professionals" and can't return phone calls. Imagine if I went to a job and didn't take a 61? Off with my head! Anyway, I'm going to contact Sanford Rubinstein tomorrow and see what he says, yes, it's the guy u see all the time in the news, but at this point I'm willing to take anything. If anyone knows of a good lawyer let me know or please contact them and let's get this going!

In the mean time, continue to drop IAB logs on all the scammers. Let them work for their promotion, at this point let them sweat it out

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Please contact the attorney from the 2006 lawsuit. He's a retired Sgt. They actually had the residency points requirement abolished.

Windeast · Senior Member

I just called the attorney from 2006 , Louis la pietra and left a message with his secretary. Hopefully he will call me back tonight or tomorrow to get this thing started. Also, I heard back from Kevin sheerin and he spoke to another firm in Manhattan on the matter and they will do a little research and will get back to him tomorrow and then me. So let's see what happens in the next 24 hours

sixmonthwonder · Guru

Hope this gets some deserving people on the list. I would rather have a non-scammer that got a 60 get promoted than a cheater who got a 90.

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Any updates with the FOIL requests??

Anyone get their score card?

machine · Senior Member

The score cards where scheduled to be sent last Friday, some people might be receiving them today, tomorrow, this week.

Su Madre 24 · Guru

Windeast,

What's your score?

Windeast · Senior Member

69

Transitblows · Senior Member

sixmonthwonder wrote:
Hope this gets some deserving people on the list. I would rather have a non-scammer that got a 60 get promoted than a cheater who got a 90.

I dont think that will happen. Wishful thinking In my opinion. Thats best case scenario along with some changes to future exams.

sixmonthwonder · Guru

Transitblows wrote:
sixmonthwonder wrote:
Hope this gets some deserving people on the list. I would rather have a non-scammer that got a 60 get promoted than a cheater who got a 90.
I dont think that will happen. Wishful thinking In my opinion. Thats best case scenario along with some changes to future exams.

I agree, but it was wishful thinking that the cheaters would be exposed on the Post yesterday morning, maybe there's hope.

DOA · Senior Member

I think you can win the fight with some changes. That should be prriority one. I wouldn't lay odds on it. Who can really say they know? There is no way all these contentious questions are good just because DCAS declared it. I strongly believe their decision reflects a broader mandate regarding changes and it caused them to willfully ignore flaws.

I think the 70 rule needs to go in favor of a finite list number or a percentage cutoff (e.g. only top 20-percent pass). This does not make tests easier. It's not an everyone gets a trophy measure either. It ensures people who do not prepare will not get promoted while controlling for variables like curveball tets or very difficult test like ours. I really do not see how it's kosher to exclude 95-percent of the testing pool from a competetive civil service list. It's nuts.

Finally, something needs to be done about the makeups. The job is investigating people and some are going to be in big trouble. Collecting a few scalps will not solve the problem. DCAS needs to be forced to reform this make up BS (and the entire testing process for that matter).

sixmonthwonder · Guru

DOA wrote:
I think you can win the fight with some changes. That should be prriority one. I wouldn't lay odds on it. Who can really say they know? There is no way all these contentious questions are good just because DCAS declared it. I strongly believe their decision reflects a broader mandate regarding changes and it caused them to willfully ignore flaws.

I think the 70 rule needs to go in favor of a finite list number or a percentage cutoff (e.g. only top 20-percent pass). This does not make tests easier. It's not an everyone gets a trophy measure either. It ensures people who do not prepare will not get promoted while controlling for variables like curveball tets or very difficult test like ours. I really do not see how it's kosher to exclude 95-percent of the testing pool from a competetive civil service list. It's nuts.

Finally, something needs to be done about the makeups. The job is investigating people and some are going to be in big trouble. Collecting a few scalps will not solve the problem. DCAS needs to be forced to reform this make up BS (and the entire testing process for that matter).

Spot on, especially the first point you brought up that hasn't been examined much, likely because it's very difficult to find out. Why no changes? Whose call was that? Should that person or group of people be forced to resign? I really mean that, anyone who says no changes has an ulterior, perhaps corrupt, motive. Whoever decided to willfully ignore flaws had to of had a reason and that should be investigated as well.

Devil Dog · Senior Member

sixmonthwonder wrote:
DOA wrote:
I think you can win the fight with some changes. That should be prriority one. I wouldn't lay odds on it. Who can really say they know? There is no way all these contentious questions are good just because DCAS declared it. I strongly believe their decision reflects a broader mandate regarding changes and it caused them to willfully ignore flaws.

I think the 70 rule needs to go in favor of a finite list number or a percentage cutoff (e.g. only top 20-percent pass). This does not make tests easier. It's not an everyone gets a trophy measure either. It ensures people who do not prepare will not get promoted while controlling for variables like curveball tets or very difficult test like ours. I really do not see how it's kosher to exclude 95-percent of the testing pool from a competetive civil service list. It's nuts.

Finally, something needs to be done about the makeups. The job is investigating people and some are going to be in big trouble. Collecting a few scalps will not solve the problem. DCAS needs to be forced to reform this make up BS (and the entire testing process for that matter).
Spot on, especially the first point you brought up that hasn't been examined much, likely because it's very difficult to find out. Why no changes? Whose call was that? Should that person or group of people be forced to resign? I really mean that, anyone who says no changes has an ulterior, perhaps corrupt, motive. Whoever decided to willfully ignore flaws had to of had a reason and that should be investigated as well.

We've been thru this already. Capt V had rebuttals ready for any protest, and the course instructors are no longer a part of the protest session. Capt V wanted to make an incredibly difficult exam, and he succeeded. Most people don't think the exam was flawed much. It was designed to make most people fail. There were only a cpl of supposed changes that were "locks". Apparently TVB agreed with Capt V, that's it...

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 05:51:20 PM

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 05:52:53 PM

Samiam32 · Senior Member

In my honest opinion I think the only people who truly have a lawsuit will be the original passers once the first class goes in and they are passed over. At that point they will have damages and can sue regarding being passed over due to make up exam testers having more time to study and given an unfair advantage.

Now as far as this list is concerned I do not think it will be thrown out unless without certainty they can prove that the test was leaked to those who took the make up exam. And even that would reuwire someone to come forward and say Yes I cheated.

The best that we can hope for is like many of you have said is to make enough noise and to have future tests in the academy on a weekday thereby forcing the weekend military guys and the sabbath observers to show up on test day. However it doesn't fix the system completely because as we have recently seen you will still have the LOD or Pregancy exceptions surface. I don't have an answer for those scammers.

It would also be great to see DCAS reasoning behind 0 throwouts and violating their own notice of examination. Don't know if a lawyer can help us with that.

Devil Dog · Senior Member

Samiam32 wrote:
In my honest opinion I think the only people who truly have a lawsuit will be the original passers once the first class goes in and they are passed over. At that point they will have damages and can sue regarding being passed over due to make up exam testers having more time to study and given an unfair advantage.

Now as far as this list is concerned I do not think it will be thrown out unless without certainty they can prove that the test was leaked to those who took the make up exam. And even that would reuwire someone to come forward and say Yes I cheated.

The best that we can hope for is like many of you have said is to make enough noise and to have future tests in the academy on a weekday thereby forcing the weekend military guys and the sabbath observers to show up on test day. However it doesn't fix the system completely because as we have recently seen you will still have the LOD or Pregancy exceptions surface. I don't have an answer for those scammers.

It would also be great to see DCAS reasoning behind 0 throwouts and violating their own notice of examination. Don't know if a lawyer can help us with that.

-.

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 09:54:24 PM

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Acting dishonestly to gain an advantage is the definition of cheating.

DOA · Senior Member

If you really believe it then feel free to tell them exactly that at the GO-15.

-- Edited by DOA on Thursday 25th of February 2016 08:36:32 PM

Samiam32 · Senior Member

There won't be a GO for me

I didn't cheat and I also didn't pass

-- Edited by Samiam32 on Thursday 25th of February 2016 08:58:47 PM

-- Edited by Samiam32 on Thursday 25th of February 2016 09:00:27 PM

Devil Dog · Senior Member

DOA wrote:
If you really believe it then feel free to tell them exactly that at the GO-15.

-- Edited by DOA on Thursday 25th of February 2016 08:36:32 PM

-

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 09:18:33 PM

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 09:54:47 PM

Windeast · Senior Member

Interesting thought.... Handfuls of lieutenants took the exam about 2 weeks prior to actual test day... What are the odds if we look into which lieutenants from which command took it and the amount of passers from those commands? I smell a well documented cheating scandal.

Devil Dog · Senior Member

Windeast wrote:
Interesting thought.... Handfuls of lieutenants took the exam about 2 weeks prior to actual test day... What are the odds if we look into which lieutenants from which command took it and the amount of passers from those commands? I smell a well documented cheating scandal.

-

-- Edited by Devil Dog on Thursday 25th of February 2016 09:55:38 PM

ParkSlopeSGT · Member

Guys there is a new class action lawsuit being developed as we speak which will petition the throw out of this exam under the pretense that it is flawed duebgo cheating. There are two other historical instances within the NYPD where exams were thrown out for excessive cheating. What resulted was a new test for all those who took it already. This means that everyone who failed has a second chance to take the exam again. What we need you guys to do is to sign the petition slowly being taken to each command by our reps. We need everyone who failed to sign this petition ASAP. The sooner we move this along via the proper channels the better. History has shown that usually when an exam is thrown out a makeup is give one year later. If the job chooses to ignore us we will force them to throw the exam out.

Here is your chance to get it done the right way. Sign the position and get your second chance.

Thanks

PROVE IT · Veteran Member

Let's help throw parkslopesgt a BarMitzvah so he can become a man quicker

papote170 · Senior Member

as I read these posts,, i see all you guys wanting this exam to be thrown out.. how about the few of us who passed the exam straight up on april 18 ? we deserve to get promoted ! we did it without scamming or cheating ! ,, it's not fair some of you guys here want the few who passed to be casualties because of those who "scammed" their way into the list !! .. to be honest , all we can do is wait .. i really hope there are changes for future exams,, but as far as holding back the "scammers" from getting promoted or throwing out the whole list, i honestly think it will never happen !!

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

papote170 wrote:
as I read these posts,, i see all you guys wanting this exam to be thrown out.. how about the few of us who passed the exam straight up on april 18 ? we deserve to get promoted ! we did it without scamming or cheating ! ,, it's not fair some of you guys here want the few who passed to be casualties because of those who "scammed" their way into the list !! .. to be honest , all we can do is wait .. i really hope there are changes for future exams,, but as far as holding back the "scammers" from getting promoted or throwing out the whole list, i honestly think it will never happen !!

Way to feed the trolls. Just ignore them and they go away as always.

IShredMajors · Senior Member

Looks like he got banned already. The mods are on it!

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

Love these mods. It's like Bigfoot said, no need to have all these threads going about the same nonsense. Let's bring this forum back to respectable levels by getting rid of the trash. It's why so many of the good members left and stop posting good information.

bigfoot45 · Guru

guys, i squash them when I check in.... But i do sleep and work

Samiam32 · Senior Member

#change.org

-- Edited by Samiam32 on Friday 26th of February 2016 01:14:24 AM

DOA · Senior Member

Guys - I know quite a few people who want nothing to do with this. I am sure you do too. They just want to cut their losses and get on with their lives. I don't blame them. It's perfectly understandable. Just don't be dissuaded by anonymous people on an internet forum who are telling you this is a waste of time: 1) They clearly have an agenda. 2) They don't know what they are talking about.

When experts telll me it's a waste of time or not economically feasible, I'll walk away. If it it turns out the 'expert' claims they can move mountains but, in reality, is just trying to scam me out of my money, oh well. It's my money to burn. Why anyone who wasn't involved one way or another would care is a mystery to me . . . Unless of course they have an agenda.

On another note, don't listen to the trolls either. I do not know anybody who is looking to get this test thrown out. That's not what this is about at all. This is about people (probably all with scores in the 60s) who fell just short short on an absurdly difficult (and imperfect) test. No one disputes this exam was a disaster or that the process needs reform. We are exploring whether we have any legal recourse. Are the TVB findings arbitrary or fair? Can we win a few changes? Can we fight for some structural changes that will give us all a better, more fair and transparent process in the future? I don't want a pound of flesh from the scammers either. I just want this game to end. It just ain't right. It's worth it for us because most of us will be hitting the books again in a few months. That's all this is. It really isn't a big deal.

I know the scammers are nervous and with good reason. Their fate really is irrelevant to this effort, though. I think some passers are worried too. Don't be. This test will not be thrown out. We are not looking to derail your success. I hope most of you guys know that.

W_T_F_ · Veteran Member

Whatever the Department and DCAS decides to do, I hope they will do it in an expeditious manner...otherwise it will be another long long long wait (months and possibly years) for the legit passers, "not so" legit passers, and the rest of the not so lucky people that failed the exam. We need the Department and DCAS to establish a better way to administer these types of exams. And the Department should really find the most "qualified" people to write these exams with the type of questions that corresponds to our job duties/requirements. Otherwise the next exam or exams (does not matter which rank it is) will still have tons of controversies which will create problems throughout the lower ranks of the entire Department.

sixmonthwonder · Guru

DOA wrote:
Guys - I know quite a few people who want nothing to do with this. I am sure you do too. They just want to cut their losses and get on with their lives. I don't blame them. It's perfectly understandable. Just don't be dissuaded by anonymous people on an internet forum who are telling you this is a waste of time: 1) They clearly have an agenda. 2) They don't know what they are talking about.

When experts telll me it's a waste of time or not economically feasible, I'll walk away. If it it turns out the 'expert' claims they can move mountains but, in reality, is just trying to scam me out of my money, oh well. It's my money to burn. Why anyone who wasn't involved one way or another would care is a mystery to me . . . Unless of course they have an agenda.

On another note, don't listen to the trolls either. I do not know anybody who is looking to get this test thrown out. That's not what this is about at all. This is about people (probably all with scores in the 60s) who fell just short short on an absurdly difficult (and imperfect) test. No one disputes this exam was a disaster or that the process needs reform. We are exploring whether we have any legal recourse. Are the TVB findings arbitrary or fair? Can we win a few changes? Can we fight for some structural changes that will give us all a better, more fair and transparent process in the future? I don't want a pound of flesh from the scammers either. I just want this game to end. It just ain't right. It's worth it for us because most of us will be hitting the books again in a few months. That's all this is. It really isn't a big deal.

I know the scammers are nervous and with good reason. Their fate really is irrelevant to this effort, though. I think some passers are worried too. Don't be. This test will not be thrown out. We are not looking to derail your success. I hope most of you guys know that.

Good luck guys, I hope you can get some changes to the test. Something happened with the TVB, I don't know what, but there was definitely some sort of corruption involved. No changes? Insanity, whoever made that call needs to be terminated from their position at once, they aren't able to perform their duties correctly.

Windeast · Senior Member

I called 2 more law firms today and awaiting there responses. Just a quick update, still going strong

UnrealDeal · Member

sixmonthwonder wrote:

Good luck guys, I hope you can get some changes to the test. Something happened with the TVB, I don't know what, but there was definitely some sort of corruption involved. No changes? Insanity, whoever made that call needs to be terminated from their position at once, they aren't able to perform their duties correctly.

-- Edited by UnrealDeal on Friday 26th of February 2016 07:46:20 PM

InYanoITrust · Member

^ everybody get your tin foil hats on. I can't believe how much people feed into this madness.

LadyD · Member

We have one strong point to be made. Everyone that took the test 6 weeks later were given the opportunity to gain important key points to difficult questions. So they were able to pick up 10 or more points than the initial test takers. This alone is unfair and not hard to prove.

DOA · Senior Member

Lol - Seriously! And this was the guy who had a problem with Wndeast being the point man on the suit. PHEW! Scary!

Can we put the cheaters on the back burner for now please? It's not that the make up process doesn't need an overhaul. We all know that. I understand wanting people to be held accountable as well. It just shouldn't be the #1 priority. If you're in the 60-70 range and you have the inclination to go the legal route, challenging the TVB's findings should be at the top of the list.

Windeast · Senior Member

Meeting set up for Thursday march 3 at 3pm in the city with Gordon, Gordon & Schnapp. ANYONE who wants to fight DCAS please message me and we will set up theocation where to meet.

Windeast · Senior Member

People do air of talking about fighting the system, NOW is your time to get the score you deserve!

Windeast · Senior Member

I need EVERYONE that protested questions on this exam and who want to fight this to message me and meet up with the attorneys on March 3. 19 questions were protested, I need 1 point... I don't know all of the problems with the other questions that you protested, so that's why I need your help to come to the meeting and to explain which questions you want reviewed.

bigfoot45 · Guru

Windeast, just meet with them and see what they say. You seem to only be interested in getting a few questions thrown out and not the makeup issues. We all get it since you are at a 69. You are only going to get people in the 67 to 69 range to maybe meet with you. If you have a case after you meet with them, then begin an outreach for those people. Just my opinion. Good luck.

sixmonthwonder · Guru

I'll PM you my two mail in protests. The ones I protested by mail were 7 and 116. I protested 45 and 54 at the protest session, those I don't have copies of, though I do remember why I protested them. One was a bit of a reach, the other was 100% a double answer.

7 is definitely a toss, 116 I was reaching.

Bklyn net · Senior Member

Just an FYI I think 7 stood because the ts guy had meal therefore couldn't be notified