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DRPapi1983 · Guru

RE: Class action lawsuit

ondeeair2321 · Guru

coming the 17th----like it or not. the 128 who passed it fair and square deserve to finally see where they are. they passed a mountain of an exam. i give u all the upmost respect. dont worry, it is no eeo or whatever have you when the list comes out i ll reveal with an asterick who was a makeup and who wasnt. they re getting their bars i think their peers need to know how they obtained them.

onthelevel · Veteran Member

I was waiting for the "I'm gonna sue, we need a class action lawsuit" nonsense. The list will be out quicker now, the job heard someone "lawyered up." It's like you people don't work for the same city I do. Smdh.

Ineed63 · Veteran Member

ondeeair2321 wrote:
coming the 17th----like it or not. the 128 who passed it fair and square deserve to finally see where they are. they passed a mountain of an exam. i give u all the upmost respect. dont worry, it is no eeo or whatever have you when the list comes out i ll reveal with an asterick who was a makeup and who wasnt. they re getting their bars i think their peers need to know how they obtained them.

I am with you, ondeeair

Transitblows · Senior Member

I feel like the job could care less if someone "lawyered up" If they were that concerned about it they would do something to expand the list. Just my opinion they dont give a fvck

Jman · Veteran Member

You guys love going back and reading old threads from past exams....I suggest you do this as it pertains to lawsuits and civil service exams. Lawsuits always fall apart. There's always some dope that says, "No, not this time guys...I met with an attorney and he says we have a good case!!" Yeah dopey....cuz he wants your fukken money. Holy Christ!! I haven't heard one valid argument for a lawsuit yet. Highlighters? Gimme a friggin break. As far as the "scammers" you speak of, you can't sue because people are on military leave or religious observers. Dummies. You also can't sue because...."waaaaahhh, the test was hard and they didn't throw out any questions, and I weally weally wanna be a Lieutenant." Don't let this skirt Ondeeair sell you any more snake oil. If you didn't make the cut, your best and really only option is to study for the next test. That's a reality check. If you want someone to blow smoke up your ass and pat you on the back and tell you everything is gonna be okay...I suggest you continue listening to Ondeeznutz.

emt54 · Veteran Member

I actually agree with Jman ..I dont believe the highlighter or scammer arguments will work. The best chance, however slim it may be, is to attack some of the questions. Number 106 is incorrect as per the cutoff date on the NOE...some of the others like 45 are incorrect as per the PG. Just my opinion, but WTF do I know..

Bklyn net · Senior Member

Yes I agree..I just want to know why those and #10 were right ..then I can rest easily

DRPapi1983 · Guru

Just wait ti'l list comes out folks

Cathetel · Senior Member

Call me crazy but I must say one thing. Its actually a good thing a number of us are talking about a potential law suit. Even the mention of it could possibly sway the job and DCAS to pump out a decent size list. Why?? Well if you make 500-600 people happy vs 200 then you have less people joining the class action, thus making it a weaker law suit like we saw in 2011 PAA Lt exam. Would've definitely been much stronger If 200 passed compared to 660. Just my 2 cents. I know, I know the job doesn't care!

Windeast · Senior Member

I'm not sure of the job "doesn't care" cuz if this dept has a document shredding unit with 1 sgt and 8 cops, and a social media unit which all they do is check up and gather Intel on facebook then calling me at the desk with info about a jump up party to which I couldn't give 2 sh!ta about, then I'm sure they probably have a unit to check this forum and report back to the head chief of maballz and then word gets around, the city will always try to have a one up to prevent chaos/lawsuits/media attention. But who knows, I'm only a sgt with the worst training from the academy and an MOS that can get fired for accidentally making a mistake being an officer doing a vertical cuz we only human. End is nearer today, good luck to all

PROVE IT · Veteran Member

You can't throw away questions just to make a bigger list. That would be a bigger lawsuit. And the last thing the city is worried about is a bunch of sgts trying to make a lawsuit, we hear it every day on patrol by every civilian and we laugh at it. But they should do something to prevent all these different test days.

DETSGT · Guru

Realistically I don't see a lawsuit happening. Que 2011 Lt test (judgement questions) and 2013 Sgt test (research questions ) among many other tests.

However I can see the dept and dcas getting a black eye from the media in regards to the disparity in passer ratings for the actual test (less than 5 %) and the make up exam over two months later (over 70%). Obviously the people that took the make up exam had an advantage. Don't think the media and public would appreciate future leaders of the police department basically being handed supervisory promotions.

Windeast · Senior Member

Have an appointment to consult with Kevin sheerin on Monday, anyone else want to come along and explain what questions need to be raised PLEASE message me and we can meet at his office. The more people the better the case. All of you spent lots of money and lots of time into thinking this test would have been fair and written properly without problems from an agency that ALL they do is write exams.... We deserve better!!

Transitblows · Senior Member

read this it on nylaw.Org. It pretty much says its a lost cause.

Transitblows · Senior Member

I would ask your lawyer about this and if he has a plan for it. You really need to find some case law about this and see it ever happened regarding questions on a civil service exam. Do some research before you just throw some money at a lawyer who will willingly take it knowing its unlikely to win

machine · Senior Member

Newspapers and law firms can find all they need to know about the abortion of fairness in this very site.... What happened here is completely disgusting and should be voiced to the four winds.

Su Madre 24 · Guru

Windeast wrote:
Have an appointment to consult with Kevin sheerin on Monday, anyone else want to come along and explain what questions need to be raised PLEASE message me and we can meet at his office. The more people the better the case. All of you spent lots of money and lots of time into thinking this test would have been fair and written properly without problems from an agency that ALL they do is write exams.... We deserve better!!

Maybe you should wait until u get a copy if the tvb findings.

Windeast · Senior Member

Even if we read their findings.... The fact that question #1 had no real answer... Would u still believe dcas?

Throwdown · Senior Member

Most corrupt ran dept ever!!!!!

Transitblows · Senior Member

Of course not. Which is why i think a question for a lawyer is how do you get a copy of the test and the findings from dcas to prove they cheated us and dissmissed the tvb findings. Another report i would want a court to have dcas hand over. These are not easy things to obtain which is why they need to be asked to the lawyer

Tommy Salami · Senior Member

I've been a lt for almost 4 years and I still think you guys should sue based on the make up exam pass rate vs regular folks pass rate

mjehangir96 · Senior Member

Who had the lawyer on the burner .... Let's get folks together and start this process

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Once a lawsuit begins all the necessary documentation will be subpoenaed into evidence.

BxPogiBoy · Veteran Member

If 128 passed and 76 passed the make up exam, then all you guys should definitely seek out a lawyer.

Doggieloverwoof · Guru

Let's do this

Samiam32 · Senior Member

What exactly are the lawsuit issues going to be? Is it to change the broken system for scammers to take advantage of the alternate test dates and cheat? Or is it to review tvb & DCAS not validating any protests? And zero changes? Or the NOE not saying operations orders, crime reporting guide and questions past cut off dates would be testable?

machine · Senior Member

Some of the demands to consider:
1)to change the broken system in favor of the scammers.
2) force the city to write challenging but reasonable exams.
3) make some right of the wrong done by curving the test... anyone that ended up in the 60s should be on the list.

Windeast · Senior Member

TVB sent 19 questions that had meat on them to be changed to dcas.... Out of those, zero?? There's something there that we don't know and it's disgusting.

Windeast · Senior Member

I need exact info on how many people took the exam on test day. How many people took exam on make up day and how many passed from the make up day. Anyone can please answer?

Transitblows · Senior Member

Maybe attacking the % of passing rate on actual test day to the make ups % we get a curve from unfairness. Ex: obsevers had 2 or 3 extra months to study and also find out what is on the exam to help them. Maybe something is there for it to be a curve. Maybe

Windeast · Senior Member

Plenty of scammers just took the exam in December!!

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

Windeast wrote:
I need exact info on how many people took the exam on test day. How many people took exam on make up day and how many passed from the make up day. Anyone can please answer?

windeast: believe it or not, i believe ondeeair had a good breakdown of said numbers

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

I was thinking, if there are funds to be raised to cover the cost of a lawyer, i would be open to contributing. Another thought was that this fund raising should not be limited to those who were not successful at this particular exam. The more funds the better. And if this lawsuit is a successful it may open doors and change the way of future exams. With that being said those in all ranks who have aspirations of taking these promotions exams should consider contributing.. Any thoughts on this?

Throwdown · Senior Member

If these vampires can claim they can't take it before exam day bc it's unfair due to less study time, then the same argument can be made by us bc they get months more to study.

Transitblows · Senior Member

I was thinking the same throwdown. And we are talking extra months compared to one day

LadyD · Member

Exactly!!

MCLAW · Newbie

Hey gentleman, I've been on this site since 2009 but have never posted a thing. I actually PM Jam Sandwich and spoke with him over the phone regarding the test. Obviously we want to know if anything can be done with this despicable situation. I spoke with an attorney and we had a very lengthy conversation. He works for a very prestigious law firm, www.whafh.com. This particular law firm is one of the best in the city and they have tremendous experience regarding class action lawsuits. The attorney told me he needed certain information to look at what options, if any, we might have. He needs official paperwork regarding the exact # of people who took the test on April and the exact number of those people that passed. Also the number of people who took it afterwards and passed (we know who they are). He also needs the official list and the Notice of Examination. I know there's the 128 number and the 76 number. Does anyone here has access to those official numbers or know how to get them?? Please PM me ASAP. So the question is what are we trying to do here?? As far as I'm concerned curve the test, either top 30%, whoever got a 50 and above, and of course change the fuc**** system for future test takes. I don't know what will come out of it but I have talked to at least 30 fellow Sgts and they are fully committed to this. PM me if you can or know how to get that information.

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

I heard there was also a lawsuit file against the 2006 Lt exam. Does anyone know the details??
The post regarding lawyer's office used back then is in the link. risingstarpromotion.activeboard.com/t48616151/confirm-lawsuit/

TOPIC: Confirm Lawsuit
User: One under
Veteran Member
Date: Apr 6, 2012
Confirm Lawsuit

Lawyers office 212 962 8020 the process has started. If you have any questions regarding this lawsuit you may contact the attorney Michelle Pomerantz at 212 962-8020. __________________

Windeast · Senior Member

We're getting very responses from a lot of sergeants who want to be in this thing. To anyone interested, u gotta be in it to win it. Message me for more info

Windeast · Senior Member

Voice your opinion to a great daily news writer... rparascandola@nydailynews.com
Everyone should tell him the problem with dcas and what happened during this test.

JustWonderin · Guru

MCLAW wrote:
Hey gentleman, I've been on this site since 2009 but have never posted a thing. I actually PM Jam Sandwich and spoke with him over the phone regarding the test. Obviously we want to know if anything can be done with this despicable situation. I spoke with an attorney and we had a very lengthy conversation. He works for a very prestigious law firm, www.whafh.com. This particular law firm is one of the best in the city and they have tremendous experience regarding class action lawsuits. The attorney told me he needed certain information to look at what options, if any, we might have. He needs official paperwork regarding the exact # of people who took the test on April and the exact number of those people that passed. Also the number of people who took it afterwards and passed (we know who they are). He also needs the official list and the Notice of Examination. I know there's the 128 number and the 76 number. Does anyone here has access to those official numbers or know how to get them?? Please PM me ASAP. So the question is what are we trying to do here?? As far as I'm concerned curve the test, either top 30%, whoever got a 50 and above, and of course change the fuc**** system for future test takes. I don't know what will come out of it but I have talked to at least 30 fellow Sgts and they are fully committed to this. PM me if you can or know how to get that information.

Sounds like your lawyer is clueless. If he was competent, he would know that it's called a FOIL request to legal. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but be wary of these lawyers. All they see is dollar signs

I-go-deep · Senior Member

We have to understand, that the JOB doesn't not care about bit about people complaining about the test. The job has nothing to do about how the test is administered. The attack should be against DCAS. Federal Law prohibits any form of of adverse action against Military Personnel, we must all accept that. Asking to change the test to a weekday is the best course of action. Also, requiring the member to bring government orders at least 90 days after the test is announced or before it is administered maybe be an additional option (one issue with this is that the federal government fiscal year begins in October, therefore if a test is given in October, November, December or January the orders may not be ready by the 90 day mark).

Windeast · Senior Member

I just spoke with Joseph kilada who is well known on these cases. His firm is looking into the matter and they will be getting back to me later today. www.laborlawfirm.org/joseph-f-kilada.html

DOA · Senior Member

I-go-deep wrote:
We have to understand, that the JOB doesn't not care about bit about people complaining about the test. The job has nothing to do about how the test is administered. The attack should be against DCAS. Federal Law prohibits any form of of adverse action against Military Personnel, we must all accept that. Asking to change the test to a weekday is the best course of action. Also, requiring the member to bring government orders at least 90 days after the test is announced or before it is administered maybe be an additional option (one issue with this is that the federal government fiscal year begins in October, therefore if a test is given in October, November, December or January the orders may not be ready by the 90 day mark).

Not true. The fight is on several fronts. The 70-rule is the job's idea. It was implemented to prevent people who did not prepare for the exam from being promoted. It is well-intentioned and works quite well for a fair exam. I agree with it under those circumstances. Let's face it. Most would accept excluding the bottom 70 percent of all registered testers as reasonable (which, in a perfect world, is its function). I think most people could even be comfortable with the bottom 80-percent.

Unfortunately, the greater a tests difficulty or deviation from a traditional testing format (e.g. 2011) the more arbitrary and capricious this line becomes. When 95 percent of all regular testers are excluded from the list it ceases to become a competitive, civil service exam altogether. Even with makeups added to the list, the cutoff is greater than 93-percent. No objective person would consider this reasonable. This is definitely worth exploring with a legal expert.

I feel bad for the people who legitimately studied for this exam. You deserve to get promoted. Unfortunately, I suspect these results have a decent chance of delaying that. These lawsuits may go nowhere. Who knows? Either way, I'd be surprised if injunctive relief isn't awarded for one of these suits based, at least in part, on the above factors.

The release of this list or promotions off of it may be delayed indefinitely while the lawyers subpoena the **** out of both DCAS and the job.

-- Edited by DOA on Friday 19th of February 2016 06:41:36 PM

Zeph · Senior Member

Are you guys really serious about suing? It appears those who are advocating for that are whiners who went mad because they failed a very difficult exam. I myself failed the exam but I can not support a futile lawsuit. It sounds stupid to me. What really makes sense is for us to gather strong support for an exam test day that would wean out the scammers; or at least a big portion of them.

UnrealDeal · Member

Please do not take offense to this, but we need someone more articulate than Windeast leading the charge. At the vey least, someone who is capable of sentence ordering. (Not to mention his painful attempts at comedy I've had to sort thorough over the past 10 months reading this forum. Literally not one funny joke out of dozens of attempts).

DOA · Senior Member

Zeph wrote:
Are you guys really serious about suing? It appears those who are advocating for that are whiners who went mad because they failed a very difficult exam. I myself failed the exam but I can not support a futile lawsuit. It sounds stupid to me. What really makes sense is for us to gather strong support for an exam test day that would wean out the scammers; or at least a big portion of them.

How do you know it is futile? I'm not going to deal with some anonymous, schyster lawyer. My attorney is a close personal friend. He's on vacation with the kids. When he returns I'll speak with him. I doubt civil service law is his forte. I assume he will refer me to a trustworthy and competent person who has expertise in this area. If that person tells me the effort is futile, I'll walk away. If they say you have a case, I will pursue it. That initial effort will cost me absolutely nothing. I can see not wanting to be dragged into some frivilous suit. I'm with you there. How could you not at least ask a professional under the conditions I describe? This isn't just whining. The difficulty of the test has no bearing on its fairness. It's the factors already mentioned.

Zeph · Senior Member

The department did their part in allowing a contest period which we failed to provide substantive arguments as to why they should omit certain questions. That's the main aspect that would disqualify your standing in court. I'm suggesting we should just lend our effort for something that would be fruitful like a [more inclusive test day] instead of pursuing a useless lawsuit.

sixmonthwonder · Guru

Zeph wrote:
The department did their part in allowing a contest period which we failed to provide substantive arguments as to why they should omit certain questions. That's the main aspect that would disqualify your standing in court. I'm suggesting we should just lend our effort for something that would be fruitful like a [more inclusive test day] instead of pursuing a useless lawsuit.

Speak for yourself, I definitely established two changes. I followed their exact format and wrote very articulate arguments. I protested four, two I was iffy on, but two were 100% wrong.