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emt54 · Veteran Member

Do we still think 9 is the number of changes?

sgt2be · Guru

19 changes...11 strong...8 just throw em up and see if they stick....capt v went down and I'm told had his arguements prepared that why I stick w my 5 number...this isn't me taking wilde guesses ppl..but hey...well see if the info is right soon. ANYTHING can happen

Su Madre 24 · Guru

This thread is a rehash of the nonsense we spewed over the last 10 months. If you got a 68-69 you got a chance. Everyone else? You failed. Enough with the sunny day people. There optimism isn't based on reality.

sgt2be · Guru

i dont let emotions play with what i post...this 5 number is what im told from different ppl A- having nothing to do with reading this site...B- who dont know each other. It could all be wrong and we could see the 19. Im not saying im some guru...im saying anyone has a chance...but if you want to post what i hear...its been 5 or consistently a handful from anyone who knows anything about this process. So dont take my posts as gold or arrogance...just what i hear. AND FYI....the test didnt have many mistakes besides grammar errors and maybe some slip ups in patrol guide. It wasnt a test....it was a i want to screw with every sgt abortion....doesnt mean 19 changes should occur.

Bklyn net · Senior Member

what's ur 5 u feel have a strong case for change

sgt2be · Guru

I cant even begin to tell you.....i just dont know...all im told was 1 is throwout and 106 is no changes...thats it...whether its true or not...again...time will tell

DRPapi1983 · Guru

sgt2be wrote:
i dont let emotions play with what i post...this 5 number is what im told from different ppl A- having nothing to do with reading this site...B- who dont know each other. It could all be wrong and we could see the 19. Im not saying im some guru...im saying anyone has a chance...but if you want to post what i hear...its been 5 or consistently a handful from anyone who knows anything about this process. So dont take my posts as gold or arrogance...just what i hear. AND FYI....the test didnt have many mistakes besides grammar errors and maybe some slip ups in patrol guide. It wasnt a test....it was a i want to screw with every sgt abortion....doesnt mean 19 changes should occur.

Get ready folks,....

TransitSucks · Senior Member

i hope its five or less.

skiguy37 · Senior Member

The test was extremely, extremely difficult. There were not as many mistakes as everyone thinks. There were several questions I have spoken to people about where they are adamant that it will be a double or a throw out... But I am equally adamant that the question was tricky, but correct. I firmly believe there will be minimal changes. I am rooting for everyone to pick up points, but I just don't see it happening.

ondeeair2321 · Guru

I too believe between 5 and 11 changes. I'm gonna say 7-9 imho, however could be totally wrong. Who knows what dcas is gonna do. In a few weeks we ll know.

Slate · Senior Member

skiguy37 wrote:
The test was extremely, extremely difficult. There were not as many mistakes as everyone thinks. There were several questions I have spoken to people about where they are adamant that it will be a double or a throw out... But I am equally adamant that the question was tricky, but correct. I firmly believe there will be minimal changes. I am rooting for everyone to pick up points, but I just don't see it happening.

The reason we going to see minimum changes compared to 2011 test is that the schools were cut out of the loop this time around. Our test had good amount of flaws 10>, BUT, if you dont articulate those flaws properly, questions gonna stick. Someone posted this before, it was amateur hour at the protest sessions. You might say how hard is it to protest a question, its common sense, unfortunately thats not the case, it requires well articulated argument and analysis. On top of that, add the Capt countering our protests, fugedboudit. The schools were the MAIN reason people with high 50s and 60s are your bosses now

-- Edited by Slate on Saturday 9th of January 2016 04:57:28 PM

Cathetel · Senior Member

Sarge wrote:
bigfoot45 wrote:
Bigguy69 wrote:
Dcas is playing hardball, even with this small list. A lot of us including myself were expecting a throw out bonanza. I'm shaking in my boots with a 69.. 67 and below your toast .
So if I read between the lines here, it sounds like 2 or 3 changes.
I say 19, i dont see them straying too far from what the tvb recommended....they never have in the past.

Sarge, great point. I usually post theory because to be honest it's theraputic to talk this sh*t out. Lets think about this on a human level. Imagine the two TVB Lt's, I assume they are well adjusted, speak well and are reasonable men unlike Captain Pony Tail who is a sociopath. With that said, imagine the interaction between these two men and a DCAS official. Im sure it was respectful and constructive. Now imagine how Captain Pony Tail treated DCAS, the exact opposite! My point is, positivity and respect fosters positivity and respect and professionalism.

-- Edited by Cathetel on Saturday 9th of January 2016 06:08:24 PM

DOA · Senior Member

Slate wrote:
The reason we going to see minimum changes compared to 2011 test is that the schools were cut out of the loop this time around . . .

BINGO! I agree with this 100-percent. I didn't take 2011 but 19 flawed questions?!?! Almost 1 in 5 questions were ****ed up?! C'mon! Clearly they were deep sea diving for throw outs. I am certain the arguments put forth by the instructors made the task of finding excuses to TO/TD questions easy. Half of the protests submitted for this debacle probably didn't even have complete sentences.

-- Edited by DOA on Saturday 9th of January 2016 05:46:58 PM

ondeeair2321 · Guru

They were deep sea diving because they needed a sizeable list. The questions on that exam were no more flawed then this one. This you can obviously see when 128 out of 2601 exam takers pass. It's half the number of raw passers then the last one. Coincidence. I think not. And the school guys aren't rocket scientists w the formula to the atom bomb. That's why I'm saying 7-9. 5 gives them no type of list whatsoever and another exam next year. 7-9 will make a decent size list---that's all they care about. And there were definitely at least 10 questions that were just as flawed as the 2011 exam. Have confidence. This capt thinks anyone who didn't pass this is a retard.

Slate · Senior Member

I believed doa meant the instructors were deep sea diving for changes. That's not done for decent size list but to keep the schools reputation strong. Remember how everyone was bashing the schools after our exam, well that's not really good for business. On the other hand, Iam pretty certain dcas has it is what it is approach and no one is looking to make something from nothing

ondeeair2321 · Guru

The protest sessions of this exam were filled. I don't think your seeing minimal throw outs I don't. I think 7-9. I'm at a 65 so this probably won't get me over hump, but I do believe it ll be around 7-9. They have to form a list---5 or less doesn't do that. They had 241 raw passers last time, this time they have 128. 80 bounced on off the makeups. That's still only 208. Still not at 241 and last time the job was in a total panic. I think we ll be in for a nice surprise off this one---but I could be wrong. And if I'm wron at that point I don't care cause I'm leaving !

Bklyn net · Senior Member

I doubt the Job or Dcas cares if the list is 300 or 600 ..do they send u anything saying why your protest was no good ?

DOA · Senior Member

Actually I was trying to say our TVB reps for 2011 were deep sea diving for changes because of the reasons ondeeair just wrote. They needed to make a viable list. 19 changes is an embarrassment and an abomination. There is no way in hell it would've happened if 500 people's raw scores were passing in 2011. The instructors' protests made getting to that number possible because their arguments were well reasoned and articulated as you mentioned. I don't see that happening here. Like you said, it isn't rocket science but we'd be lucky if half of our protests weren't written in crayon.

Slate · Senior Member

ondeeair2321 wrote:
The protest sessions of this exam were filled. I don't think your seeing minimal throw outs I don't. I think 7-9. I'm at a 65 so this probably won't get me over hump, but I do believe it ll be around 7-9. They have to form a list---5 or less doesn't do that. They had 241 raw passers last time, this time they have 128. 80 bounced on off the makeups. That's still only 208. Still not at 241 and last time the job was in a total panic. I think we ll be in for a nice surprise off this one---but I could be wrong. And if I'm wron at that point I don't care cause I'm leaving !

They have to form a list...Who is They?

Iam aware the protest sessions were filled but whats 500 poorly written protests Vs 1 written by the instructor who does this for living...We were left to fend for ourselves and results will follow accordingly.

ondeeair2321 · Guru

i laugh at the fact that you think the instructors are like Moses bringing down the two tablets from Mt Sinai at these protests. Lol. And all the other exam takers were idiots who wrote in crayons. I alone in my protest saw a ton of highly intelligent protesters who poured their hearts into that protest with well backed up information and facts. Their just as intelligent. I might not make this thing but to say that the "school gods" not being there is silly. have some confidence in your other sgts who took this. they knew their stuff. this exam was extremely flawed.

wisecop · Senior Member

ondeeair2321 wrote:
i laugh at the fact that you think the instructors are like Moses bringing down the two tablets from Mt Sinai at these protests. Lol. And all the other exam takers were idiots who wrote in crayons. I alone in my protest saw a ton of highly intelligent protesters who poured their hearts into that protest with well backed up information and facts. Their just as intelligent. I might not make this thing but to say that the "school gods" not being there is silly. have some confidence in your other sgts who took this. they knew their stuff. this exam was extremely flawed.

I understand you would like nothing more than to believe this but it just isn't true. You mean to tell me that these guys that have been teaching these courses for 10+ years, consistently taking the test and acing them. Sitting down with no pressure with the sole purpose of picking apart every question have no advantage on the average test taker who has everything on the line. You my friend are not being realistic.

wisecop · Senior Member

The truth is that it makes a huge difference just take note of the amount of throwouts/changes on the recent tests after the schools got banned.

wisecop · Senior Member

The truth is that it makes a huge difference just take note of the amount of throwouts/changes on the recent tests after the schools got banned.

ondeeair2321 · Guru

Some of these questions we re not even in proper English. Or quoted from the right section in pg---makes it wide open for tossing. Also take a subjective answer like question 1. There are flaws---what will be will be. But stop acting like capt douche made a flawless exam. If u passed I congratulate u---I'm at the end of my line anyhow. This was a sticking around point for me. But don't act like this guy made a rock solid exam. He didn't. There are flaws. Whether dcas makes them right is up to them. I wish all luck and hope those on the fringe make it---if not---take the next one. It ll be around corner of this list is small.

Cathetel · Senior Member

ondeeair2321 wrote:
Some of these questions we re not even in proper English. Or quoted from the right section in pg---makes it wide open for tossing. Also take a subjective answer like question 1. There are flaws---what will be will be. But stop acting like capt douche made a flawless exam. If u passed I congratulate u---I'm at the end of my line anyhow. This was a sticking around point for me. But don't act like this guy made a rock solid exam. He didn't. There are flaws. Whether dcas makes them right is up to them. I wish all luck and hope those on the fringe make it---if not---take the next one. It ll be around corner of this list is small.

Your best post Ondeeair. Too many Captain Pony Tail apologists on this forum.

DETSGT · Guru

The test was not flawless. There will be throwouts.

Stop crying about the instructors not being able to protest. Take some pride and confidence in yourself and your fellow sgts that took time to protest.

ondeeair2321 · Guru

yes thats all that im saying. just like cathetel and detsgt are saying----people are so fearful of the crap this guy goes around spewing about his exam. and he DOES. numerous times this guy has said to sgts---"did u take the exam?". yes---most of them reply---and u know what----from the ones who have told me he has some smart a** comment about his exam. like maybe you dont deserve the rank or some crap like that. this guy went out of his way to screw careers. this is a FACT. he enjoys it. now i saw guys pouring their hearts into that protest----some damn smart ones too. dont count those guys out----yano and the irish mafia dont have magical pixie dust that they sprinkle on dcas protest sheets. these guys have some material that was passed down time and again and they update it. and make $1000 a guy pop off. yano on this sgt exam with the cram sessions or some magical mystery tour BS will make even more. stop believing the hype----this exam was jacked. whatever the throwouts-----stop being afraid of capt vouche.

wisecop · Senior Member

Cathetel wrote:
ondeeair2321 wrote:
Some of these questions we re not even in proper English. Or quoted from the right section in pg---makes it wide open for tossing. Also take a subjective answer like question 1. There are flaws---what will be will be. But stop acting like capt douche made a flawless exam. If u passed I congratulate u---I'm at the end of my line anyhow. This was a sticking around point for me. But don't act like this guy made a rock solid exam. He didn't. There are flaws. Whether dcas makes them right is up to them. I wish all luck and hope those on the fringe make it---if not---take the next one. It ll be around corner of this list is small.
Your best post Ondeeair. Too many Captain Pony Tail apologists on this forum.

You guys are EDPs. Universally everyone has expressed disgust for Capt. V but if people dont feed into your dilusional logic regarding the throwouts you throw a tantrum?

wisecop · Senior Member

DETSGT wrote:
The test was not flawless. There will be throwouts.

Stop crying about the instructors not being able to protest. Take some pride and confidence in yourself and your fellow sgts that took time to protest.

Whose crying? Ondeair or you? Pride and confidence? We're talking about protesting questions not the war on terror, relax Tony Robbins.

-- Edited by wisecop on Sunday 10th of January 2016 01:00:00 AM

Bklyn net · Senior Member

I failed but I don't think it had many mistakes I blame myself ..I really don't see more than 5

DETSGT · Guru

Wisecop obviously your not confident enough in your ability to formulate a sound protest to the questions. But fear not my little special needs friend, competent Sergeants fought that battle for you.

johnnybigtime · Veteran Member

I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

Cathetel · Senior Member

johnnybigtime wrote:
I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

You're a good man Johnnybigtime. Karma will reward you.

johnnybigtime · Veteran Member

Thanks man. I understand trying to keep total boobs out of the rank but did they really have to try to hurt people? Sad.

-- Edited by johnnybigtime on Sunday 10th of January 2016 03:07:06 AM

scheduleB_magnet · Guru

johnnybigtime wrote:
I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

You and I were in the same boat and I protested the same exact way. I didn't find it difficult at all to follow the format. Yes there were a lot of questions that got me on the original day but I felt I did very well with my protests. Time will tell I guess...

DETSGT · Guru

Same here. Passed but stayed and properly articulated concrete protests.

Sarge · Senior Member

johnnybigtime wrote:
I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

same with me, I stayed the whole time, protested about 9. I think I had a solid argument on at least 6 of them and I didn't even touch the in-basket....

skiguy37 · Senior Member

johnnybigtime wrote:
I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

yes, johnny and I attacked the sergeant protest and this protest together even though we had fairly decent passing scores on both tests. It still blows my mind that people that study do not go to the protest. I'll never understand it. We all dedicated 6 months at a minimum and then some people decide to lay down right before the finish line.

Flambino · Senior Member

johnnybigtime wrote:
I attended the 2011 Sgt. exam protest as well as this one with skiguy37. We passed both original exams. I was really angry with this test and even though I knew I passed I wanted to kick it hard while it was down. I protested ten questions with the combined power of all of my education in college and on the job. I stayed the entire 6:45 and was just as exhausted leaving the protest as I was the actual exam. I used highlighters and stapled all kinds of stuff to the little protest sheets. I wrote the same lines of nonsense at the bottom of each page as required and numbered the protest sheets when there was more than one as required. I didn't let them have ANY little mistake which would cause my protests to be disqualified. I argued specifically why each one should be a throwout, double or triple. There were quite a few I looked at and said "Damn, they got me." But there really were more than a few rotten apple questions on this exam. It may have been the masterpiece of a fool but it was no work of art.

JOHNNYBIGTIME....hit the nail on the head "masterpiece of a fool but no work of art."

wisecop · Senior Member

DETSGT wrote:
Wisecop obviously your not confident enough in your ability to formulate a sound protest to the questions. But fear not my little special needs friend, competent Sergeants fought that battle for you.

Mr. Sergeant of the Police this fake act of courage you're carrying out by attacking me is just a diversion to mask your denial. In essence, contrary to what you're saying I will probably be credited with at least 2 changes for protesting 10 questions of which I had 4 correct. But it would take an act of god for me or a "competent" sergeant to ever deliver a protest like Yanosik or Shea. Why is that so hard for you to understand sir? 1+1=2 and 1+0=1, 0 being schoolsprotesting. 2 is more than 1 right?

sgt2be · Guru

The one thing you guys are missing...and it's huge! DCAS DOES WHAT THEY WANT......you can have the most articulate appeal and it can and has before been rejected. So what does this mean??? The same thing it meant when 19 appeals were submitted. You can have 0 to 19 changes! And us minions are are the mercy of the dcas fools

DOA · Senior Member

That isn't lost on anyone. In fact, what I am saying above is DCAS does not use objective and measurable criteria when it comes to changes anymore than the job uses them to write the test. What happens on their end is the same that happen on our end. The whole thing is arbitrary. Evidence of that abounds. Nonetheless, if DCAS were amenable (for whatever reason) to beefing up the list it needs somewhere to go that protects the decision maker from liability after the fact. That's where the protests come in. Protests will have a profound affect on the results if DCAS wants them to. However valid protests need to be there. Does losing the instructors have an impact? Of course it does. 19 changes in 2011 doesn't happen without both DCAS,the job'so influence and good protests. 27 changes in 2010 for Capt doesn't happen without them either. How can anyone disagree with that?

ondeeair2321 · Guru

19 were submited---with 11 being extremely strong. if you dont think it puts the city on the hook for an article 78 lawsuit----your wrong. its happened before. guys have sued because one group had highlighters and another didnt. its all about liability people. if you think the city can do whatever it wants----ur wrong. thats why they get sued---and settle time and time again. people have been put on promotion lists after failing because of suits. stay tuned------im telling ya 7-9. if im wrong-----i could care less b/c im out but happy for the people who passed. but im telling ya if 19 were submitted and 11 were strong no way will it be 5. u guys really think this guy is a patrol guide god. sad.

Bklyn net · Senior Member

18th would make 9 months lold wtf

Bklyn net · Senior Member

U think the vet letters will be received this week ?

wisecop · Senior Member

DOA wrote:
That isn't lost on anyone. In fact, what I am saying above is DCAS does not use objective and measurable criteria when it comes to changes anymore than the job uses them to write the test. What happens on their end is the same that happen on our end. The whole thing is arbitrary. Evidence of that abounds. Nonetheless, if DCAS were amenable (for whatever reason) to beefing up the list it needs somewhere to go that protects the decision maker from liability after the fact. That's where the protests come in. Protests will have a profound affect on the results if DCAS wants them to. However valid protests need to be there. Does losing the instructors have an impact? Of course it does. 19 changes in 2011 doesn't happen without both DCAS,the job'so influence and good protests. 27 changes in 2010 for Capt doesn't happen without them either. How can anyone disagree with that?

Holy **** a logical analysis. DOA be careful you may get accused of calling the protesters incompetent or worse being a captain V fanatic. Some people don't know how to detach emotions from logic. In reality if you guys want to keep your sanities expect the worst and hope for the best but stop wishing, its pathetic.

-- Edited by wisecop on Sunday 10th of January 2016 07:13:29 PM

DOA · Senior Member

Exactly! All myself, Slate and wisecop are saying is instructors influence the process in our favor. All the reasons why this is true have been articulated numerous times on this forum and they are irrefutable. I said half the protests were in crayon. I stand by that. It ruffled feathers I guess because the, 'Yeah but I'm brilliant crowd' suddenly made an appearance. Don't worry. We all know there are people who are capable of following directions and lodging a well reasoned and written protest. Reminding us all you're out there was hardly necessary.

As for DCAS being completely above influence, it is obviously not true. This is why 19 changes were found for 2011 Lt and 27 for 2010 Capt. How many changes were on the famous 'Retargent' exam that over 1600 passed? Was it three? Wow I guess it was because it was so well written, right!?!?! C'mon! Wake up!

The process clearly is not on the level. I do not dispute that DCAS is king and can do what it wants. It's the lead agency. So what? It doesn't follow that it's above influence (or at least that it's agenda and the job's doesn't often overlap).

At the end of the day we are in violent agreement. I guessed <10 changes from the start and recently narrowed it down to 7 (wild guess). sgt2be says it's 5. ondeeair says it's 7-9. I don't see any of the resident geniuses coming in with high numbers. Hell, anyone standing by double digits is labeled a troll. What the hell are we debating exactly?

wisecop · Senior Member

The debate is the obvious and inevitable reality that ever since the schools stop sitting in for exams the amount of questions thrownout/changed has declined drastically.

johnnybigtime · Veteran Member

DOA wrote:
Exactly! All myself, Slate and wisecop are saying is instructors influence the process in our favor. All the reasons why this is true have been articulated numerous times on this forum and they are irrefutable. I said half the protests were in crayon. I stand by that. It ruffled feathers I guess because the, 'Yeah but I'm brilliant crowd' suddenly made an appearance. Don't worry. We all know there are people who are capable of following directions and lodging a well reasoned and written protest. Reminding us all you're out there was hardly necessary.

As for DCAS being completely above influence, it is obviously not true. This is why 19 changes were found for 2011 Lt and 27 for 2010 Capt. How many changes were on the famous 'Retargent' exam that over 1600 passed? Was it three? Wow I guess it was because it was so well written, right!?!?! C'mon! Wake up!

The process clearly is not on the level. I do not dispute that DCAS is king and can do what it wants. It's the lead agency. So what? It doesn't follow that it's above influence (or at least that it's agenda and the job's doesn't often overlap).

At the end of the day we are in violent agreement. I guessed <10 changes from the start and recently narrowed it down to 7 (wild guess). sgt2be says it's 5. ondeeair says it's 7-9. I don't see any of the resident geniuses coming in with high numbers. Hell, anyone standing by double digits is labeled a troll. What the hell are we debating exactly?

Ouch dude. Just trying to be positive. It seems people are losing hope here just because the Mifsud's of the world aren't protesting for us. Maybe we should start talking about which ones we protested and why. We might start to see that there were some really good arguments put out there.

wisecop · Senior Member

johnnybigtime wrote:
DOA wrote:
Exactly! All myself, Slate and wisecop are saying is instructors influence the process in our favor. All the reasons why this is true have been articulated numerous times on this forum and they are irrefutable. I said half the protests were in crayon. I stand by that. It ruffled feathers I guess because the, 'Yeah but I'm brilliant crowd' suddenly made an appearance. Don't worry. We all know there are people who are capable of following directions and lodging a well reasoned and written protest. Reminding us all you're out there was hardly necessary.

As for DCAS being completely above influence, it is obviously not true. This is why 19 changes were found for 2011 Lt and 27 for 2010 Capt. How many changes were on the famous 'Retargent' exam that over 1600 passed? Was it three? Wow I guess it was because it was so well written, right!?!?! C'mon! Wake up!

The process clearly is not on the level. I do not dispute that DCAS is king and can do what it wants. It's the lead agency. So what? It doesn't follow that it's above influence (or at least that it's agenda and the job's doesn't often overlap).

At the end of the day we are in violent agreement. I guessed <10 changes from the start and recently narrowed it down to 7 (wild guess). sgt2be says it's 5. ondeeair says it's 7-9. I don't see any of the resident geniuses coming in with high numbers. Hell, anyone standing by double digits is labeled a troll. What the hell are we debating exactly?
Ouch dude. Just trying to be positive. It seems people are losing hope here just because the Mifsud's of the world aren't protesting for us. Maybe we should start talking about which ones we protested and why. We might start to see that there were some really gobyod arguments put out there.

Great idea. We shall bake cookies and discuss the protests, someone from the TVB might log on and notice how wishful and hopeful we are and then give us 5 extra throw outs.