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Post Info TOPIC: Unit bargaining portion of contract complete


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Unit bargaining portion of contract complete


Dear CEA Member,

 

The CEA has completed the Unit Bargaining portion of our Collective Bargaining Agreement.  This prolonged contract negotiation segment dealt with individual and unique conditions of employment covered by the CEA Collective Bargaining Agreement.  Our challenge was to improve and modify our existing benefit structure while maintaining a zero sum cost to the City.  The CEA has come to agreement on changes that will improve daily work conditions and give you the ability to realize additional cash compensation for the service you perform for this City.  The terms are as follows:

 

First, effective on ratification of this agreement (ballot count targeted for September 24, 2015) Captains will work 9 hour tours of duty in their first year of service ONLY.  Current Captains in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th years of service will be scheduled to work 8 hour tours instead of 9 hour tours of duty.

 

Second, effective January 1, 2016, Captains in their first three years of service shall have the option of receiving cash overtime (paid at the straight time rate) for up to 180 hours per calendar year.

 

Third, effective January 1, 2016, with the exception of Captains in their first three years of service, members of the bargaining unit shall have the option each quarter in a calendar year of exchanging 67.5 hours of compensatory time earned in that quarter for 25 hours of cash paid at the straight time rate.   This money is pensionable compensation.

 

We had to make contractual concessions to the City to neutralize costs associated with these contract improvements.  These concessions are:

 

First, Captains promoted after September 1, 2015 shall have their annual annuity fund contributions reduced by $1,140 in their first five years of service.  Their new annual annuity contribution amount will be $400 (after five years annual annuity fund contributions increase to $3,390 for members in the rank of Captain).

 

Second, Captains promoted after September 1, 2015 shall work both of their two annual Executive Cycle range days on a regularly scheduled day off, or at a time otherwise not scheduled to work, without compensation.

 

Third, Captains promoted after September 1, 2015 shall work one additional tour of duty without additional compensation in their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th year of service.

 

Fourth, effective September 1, 2015 CEA Welfare Fund contributions will be equalized with the Lieutenants Benevolent Association and be reduced by $63 per year for retirees.

 

Lastly, the term of the CEA Collective Bargaining Agreement will be extended by one month and will now expire April 30, 2019 (from its previous date of March 31, 2019).

 

 

 



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I don't know what to think about this contract...seems lije guys after sept 2015 getting the shaft...see anything g differently?

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Still a paycut for the first couple of years but closes the gap a bit with the 180 hours of ot (hourly rate).

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If you're on the fence about whether to take the test or not....would this contract make you take it or not?

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I think it's decent. The 180 hours a year for the 1st 3 years should make up some if not a majority of the ot loss from being promoted from Lt to Capt. Not sure if that 67 hours time exchange for 25 hours cash is worth it though.

Overall I see this new contract enticing more people to take the Capt test

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DETSGT wrote:

I think it's decent. The 180 hours a year for the 1st 3 years should make up some if not a majority of the ot loss from being promoted from Lt to Capt. Not sure if that 67 hours time exchange for 25 hours cash is worth it though.

Overall I see this new contract enticing more people to take the Capt test


 You will accumulate so much time that here and there you could exchange it for cash. All depends on financial needs. 



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sig226 wrote:
DETSGT wrote:

I think it's decent. The 180 hours a year for the 1st 3 years should make up some if not a majority of the ot loss from being promoted from Lt to Capt. Not sure if that 67 hours time exchange for 25 hours cash is worth it though.

Overall I see this new contract enticing more people to take the Capt test


 You will accumulate so much time that here and there you could exchange it for cash. All depends on financial needs. 


 Yea true. Espically since it's pensionable. And definetly worth it your last year



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Unless you are in a good gig, with the possibility of getting sa pay, you must be an idiot not to take cpt test. Overall pension will be higher, less supervisors to answer to, more chances of getting higher paying job after retirement, more down time. Obviously if you are pct co you will be held accountable for just about everything, might get ripped at compstat, but eventually the promotion will be there

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Only good thing is the 8 hour tour after the first year in rank. 67.5 hours converted to 25 hours cash OT at straight rate. Not worth the cash if you do it mathematically.   



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I think you can not underestimate the importance and the financial value of the 9 hour tour getting pushed back to 8 hours. If you consider that we average around 230 tours a year (after vacation), over the course of 4 years that's 920 hours. 920 hours equals 23 40 hour work weeks. That's nearly half a year's worth of time you were working for free. It's a substantial gain. Factor in when you get assigned midnite duties. Everyone does a double for their midnite duty. Trust me, that 18 hour shift is ****ing brutal. These add ons to the contract are a home run.

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When is next Captain test? Where to sign up? Let' s go captain rank.........

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We have to wait and see what LBA gets. It's all about comparison.

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Obviously this is gonna pass. All the givebacks except for the welfare fund contributions, only effect the unborn captains. Basically every captain voting on this will benefit and everyone promoted after this will get both the good and the bad.

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whats the top pay?

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Second, effective January 1, 2016, Captains in their first three years of service shall have the option of receiving cash overtime (paid at the straight time rate) for up to 180 hours per calendar year.

 

Third, effective January 1, 2016, with the exception of Captains in their first three years of service, members of the bargaining unit shall have the option each quarter in a calendar year of exchanging 67.5 hours of compensatory time earned in that quarter for 25 hours of cash paid at the straight time rate.   This money is pensionable compensation.

 

Stiggity,

If I'm reading this correctly, after the first three years as a captain you can no longer get those 180 hours a year.  Instead you would have to exchange 67.5 hours of comp time for 25 hours of cash.  Looks like they are screwing you guys once you get to top pay captain.  Now, unless they mean you can exchange 67.5 hours of comp time for 25 hours of cash in addition to the 180 hours of OT once you have 3 years in rank it doesn't seem like a great deal.  Please correct me if I'm misreading or missing something.

 



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I think the purpose of the agreement is to bridge the gap until top pay captain, not to significantly increase the take home salary of top pay captains. That would cost more in give backs than what is listed here.



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IShredMajors wrote:

I think the purpose of the agreement is to bridge the gap until top pay captain, not to significantly increase the take home salary of top pay captains. That would cost more in give backs than what is listed here.


 That portion of the contract just seems like a raw deal. Essentially, you are being penalized for being a top pay captain in regards to "overtime" pay.  67.5 hours of time for 25 hours of straight pay does not entice me.  You are working extra hours for 2 and a half times less money per hour.... sounds insane.  



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bigfoot45 wrote:
IShredMajors wrote:

I think the purpose of the agreement is to bridge the gap until top pay captain, not to significantly increase the take home salary of top pay captains. That would cost more in give backs than what is listed here.


 That portion of the contract just seems like a raw deal. Essentially, you are being penalized for being a top pay captain in regards to "overtime" pay.  67.5 hours of time for 25 hours of straight pay does not entice me.  You are working extra hours for 2 and a half times less money per hour.... sounds insane.  


IshredMajors,

I see what you are saying.  In addition maybe more LTS will take the test now since with the "overtime" now as a rookie captain you should no longer take a paycut by becoming a captain, or at least not anything significant.  The 67.5 hours of comp time for 25 hours of straight time cash still seems like a raw deal to me.



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 05:33:20 PM



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 05:34:41 PM

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It's a raw deal to anyone who isn't a captain, but I bet if you ask captains,  they would trade their 67 hours. Most captains are drowning in time and would gladly cash some in, even at a reduced rate.



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67 is a lot of hours to trade in though, it's prob better to retire earlier.

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sgt2be wrote:

If you're on the fence about whether to take the test or not....would this contract make you take it or not?


 NOPE!



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bigfoot45 wrote:
bigfoot45 wrote:
IShredMajors wrote:

I think the purpose of the agreement is to bridge the gap until top pay captain, not to significantly increase the take home salary of top pay captains. That would cost more in give backs than what is listed here.


 That portion of the contract just seems like a raw deal. Essentially, you are being penalized for being a top pay captain in regards to "overtime" pay.  67.5 hours of time for 25 hours of straight pay does not entice me.  You are working extra hours for 2 and a half times less money per hour.... sounds insane.  


IshredMajors,

I see what you are saying.  In addition maybe more LTS will take the test now since with the "overtime" now as a rookie captain you should no longer take a paycut by becoming a captain, or at least not anything significant.  The 67.5 hours of comp time for 25 hours of straight time cash still seems like a raw deal to me.



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 05:33:20 PM



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 05:34:41 PM


 HUGE RAW DEAL



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It's the magical NYPD game of moving money and time around to confuse everyone... Business as usual. And some things need clarification also...

1) 8 hour tours for the 2nd/3rd/4th and 5th years of service. Awesome. Any rank that works more than 8 hours and doesn't get some kind of compensation whether it be time or cash is getting a raw deal. But, why does this say for years 2,3,4,5? Why doesn't it say years 2+? What about years 6 and on?

2) Cash 'overtime' does NOT equal 'straight' time pay. That's an oxymoron. Just for comparison purposes, straight time pay for Captain in 2015 w/20 years on the Job = $72.33.... Day OT rate for *SGT* in 2015 w/20 years on = $80 an hour. Day OT rate for LT in 2015 w/ 20 years on = around $90 an hour.  And that's not even factoring in the night diff OT rate.. Which is significantly higher for Sgt/Lt. Hopefully the Captains have a night diff 'straight time' rate for when they work their 'OT' from 1600-0800 hours. The sole purpose of this is to bridge the monetary gap between leaving the rank of Lt to become a Captain. But now, as I've said before, your moving the compensation around. Now since your cashing in your 'overtime' at a straight pay rate which is LOWER than the OT rate of Sgt and Lt... You're no longer accruing TIME. That's where they get you. That's how they can afford to give 8 hour tours for years 2,3,4,5!

3) 67.5 hours of time for 25 hours 'straight time' pay? Nah. That math doesn't add up. The only good thing about this is that it is pensionable monies. BUT, again, as you can see.... Your working significantly more hours than the cash you will be compensated with. Doesn't add up in the end.


And THEN come the givebacks??? Hahahahaha...


4) Annuity Fund giveback.. 5 years of getting shafted on the Annuity. Self explanatory.

5) Range Day RDO's. The executive cycle is a joke. This isn't a big giveback in my opinion... This is tolerable. For PO - Lt, this is a full work day on the arm, it would be a little different for those ranks.

6) 1 tour on the arm for years 2,3,4,5..... No good. Working for FREE is never a good precedence to set... EVER. The Captains are letting the City know we have no problem working without compensation. Again, some clarification for years 6+ is required.

7) Welfare fund reductions... Whatever.

8) Not a big deal. All the contracts have staggered end dates. This is part of the divide and conquer principle.


When all is said and done this is not a good contract.



-- Edited by que1999 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 09:18:11 PM

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que1999 wrote:

It's the magical NYPD game of moving money and time around to confuse everyone... Business as usual. And some things need clarification also...

1) 8 hour tours for the 2nd/3rd/4th and 5th years of service. Awesome. Any rank that works more than 8 hours and doesn't get some kind of compensation whether it be time or cash is getting a raw deal. But, why does this say for years 2,3,4,5? Why doesn't it say years 2+? What about years 6 and on?

2) Cash 'overtime' does NOT equal 'straight' time pay. That's an oxymoron. Just for comparison purposes, straight time pay for Captain in 2015 w/20 years on the Job = $72.33.... Day OT rate for *SGT* in 2015 w/20 years on = $80 an hour. Day OT rate for LT in 2015 w/ 20 years on = around $90 an hour.  And that's not even factoring in the night diff OT rate.. Which is significantly higher for Sgt/Lt. Hopefully the Captains have a night diff 'straight time' rate for when they work their 'OT' from 1600-0800 hours. The sole purpose of this is to bridge the monetary gap between leaving the rank of Lt to become a Captain. But now, as I've said before, your moving the compensation around. Now since your cashing in your 'overtime' at a straight pay rate which is LOWER than the OT rate of Sgt and Lt... You're no longer accruing TIME. That's where they get you. That's how they can afford to give 8 hour tours for years 2,3,4,5!

3) 67.5 hours of time for 25 hours 'straight time' pay? Nah. That math doesn't add up. The only good thing about this is that it is pensionable monies. BUT, again, as you can see.... Your working significantly more hours than the cash you will be compensated with. Doesn't add up in the end.


And THEN come the givebacks??? Hahahahaha...


4) Annuity Fund giveback.. 5 years of getting shafted on the Annuity. Self explanatory.

5) Range Day RDO's. The executive cycle is a joke. This isn't a big giveback in my opinion... This is tolerable. For PO - Lt, this is a full work day on the arm, it would be a little different for those ranks.

6) 1 tour on the arm for years 2,3,4,5..... No good. Working for FREE is never a good precedence to set... EVER. The Captains are letting the City know we have no problem working without compensation. Again, some clarification for years 6+ is required.

7) Welfare fund reductions... Whatever.

8) Not a big deal. All the contracts have staggered end dates. This is part of the divide and conquer principle.


When all is said and done this is not a good contract.



-- Edited by que1999 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 09:18:11 PM


 EXACTLY!!!!!!!



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i think you guys are missing the big picture....GUYS WHO ARE ALREADY CAPTAINS MAKE OUT LIKE BANDITS.......

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So you can trade 270 hours of Time for 100 hours of Straight Time Cash per year @ $72 per hour. Annually that comes out to approximately $7200 extra per year.

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que1999 wrote:

It's the magical NYPD game of moving money and time around to confuse everyone... Business as usual. And some things need clarification also...

1) 8 hour tours for the 2nd/3rd/4th and 5th years of service. Awesome. Any rank that works more than 8 hours and doesn't get some kind of compensation whether it be time or cash is getting a raw deal. But, why does this say for years 2,3,4,5? Why doesn't it say years 2+? What about years 6 and on?

2) Cash 'overtime' does NOT equal 'straight' time pay. That's an oxymoron. Just for comparison purposes, straight time pay for Captain in 2015 w/20 years on the Job = $72.33.... Day OT rate for *SGT* in 2015 w/20 years on = $80 an hour. Day OT rate for LT in 2015 w/ 20 years on = around $90 an hour.  And that's not even factoring in the night diff OT rate.. Which is significantly higher for Sgt/Lt. Hopefully the Captains have a night diff 'straight time' rate for when they work their 'OT' from 1600-0800 hours. The sole purpose of this is to bridge the monetary gap between leaving the rank of Lt to become a Captain. But now, as I've said before, your moving the compensation around. Now since your cashing in your 'overtime' at a straight pay rate which is LOWER than the OT rate of Sgt and Lt... You're no longer accruing TIME. That's where they get you. That's how they can afford to give 8 hour tours for years 2,3,4,5!

3) 67.5 hours of time for 25 hours 'straight time' pay? Nah. That math doesn't add up. The only good thing about this is that it is pensionable monies. BUT, again, as you can see.... Your working significantly more hours than the cash you will be compensated with. Doesn't add up in the end.


And THEN come the givebacks??? Hahahahaha...


4) Annuity Fund giveback.. 5 years of getting shafted on the Annuity. Self explanatory.

5) Range Day RDO's. The executive cycle is a joke. This isn't a big giveback in my opinion... This is tolerable. For PO - Lt, this is a full work day on the arm, it would be a little different for those ranks.

6) 1 tour on the arm for years 2,3,4,5..... No good. Working for FREE is never a good precedence to set... EVER. The Captains are letting the City know we have no problem working without compensation. Again, some clarification for years 6+ is required.

7) Welfare fund reductions... Whatever.

8) Not a big deal. All the contracts have staggered end dates. This is part of the divide and conquer principle.


When all is said and done this is not a good contract.



-- Edited by que1999 on Thursday 27th of August 2015 09:18:11 PM


8 hour tours -- Currently, captains only have to work 9 hours up til their 5th year. So this effectively pushes it back to the end of their 1st year.

Slippage tour - I'm not a fan but the rank (regardless of seniority) currently has to work one slippage tour a year. I don't know if this means new captains have to do two slippage tours or what. But if you're a captain you know how to make this slippage tour work out for you.

The overtime options are a scam but I think this is how the CEA was able to bargain getting captains back down to 8 hour tours. The union made the case to the city that they can get these guys to get paid for their banked hours now, at a much lesser rate, than have to pay them out at the full rate when they retire.



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The 65 hours of time in exchange for 25 hours cash is idiotic. Only makes sense if you really need the money. For me...personally...I avoid almost every giveback since I'm already in the rank...I get two years of 180 hours straight time cash...and I get 8 hour tours instead of 9 for the next 4 years. It's a no brainer.

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I would rather retire and take my full 67.5 hours in Cash straight time pay while I ride out my Terminal... This city will try to sell us anything.. 67.5 hours in time(Which Equals Straight Time Cash at retirement) for 25 hours in Cash... What a joke.. The only good thing is(which really isn't good but better then nothing) that new Captains could take cash OT. Even though it's at straight time rate... This city takes us all as fools... Is this even FLSA compliant?? 





-- Edited by SQDBOSS on Friday 28th of August 2015 02:11:55 AM

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If you are a top pay captain I don't really see how you made out. Seems like a better deal if you are not at top pay but just recently got promoted. Not only do you only get 25 hours of straight time compensation for 67.5 hours of over time, you need to earn 67.5 hours within the quarter.  Imagine you worked only 65 hours and then the quarter ended.  Additionally, if you do the math a top pay captain is essentially working overtime at a lesser rate then a rookie police officer....that's insane. 

Rookie Cop:  Hey Capt, I'm stuck on this crime scene.  Oh well, I could use the OT.

Captain:  Could be worse kid, you could be making my overtime rate.

You could make a Sunday comic out of this.

I guess they only want non top pay Captains to receive any additional monetary compensation for overtime.



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Friday 28th of August 2015 08:03:41 AM

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eze


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They are going to trade you 2.7 hours of your time for 1 hour. Not a great deal, BUT, the value here is it's pensionable. This would add approx. $3,700/year on a 20-year pension.

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That's equivalent to approximately a $330/month car note



-- Edited by tensixone on Friday 28th of August 2015 01:02:24 PM

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effective January 1, 2016, with the exception of Captains in their first three years of service, members of the bargaining unit shall have the option each quarter in a calendar year of exchanging 67.5 hours of compensatory time earned in that quarter for 25 hours of cash paid at the straight time rate.   This money is pensionable compensation.

 

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!

Since you are able to exchange 67.5 hours ($4,882) that means you are doing 8 hour tours.

67.5 hours  = 8.3 tours X 4 = 33 Tours ($19,528)

25 hours of straight time (per quarter) = $1,808 X 4 = $7,232

Essentially you are getting paid $1,808 for eight tours. Anyone who accepts that trade should not be in a management position within ANY organization. How can the CEA bring this pile of crap to the membership? Why not keep the cash option, like years 1-3, for years 4 and above but reduce the amount to 100 hours per year?

The only benefit to this contract is the loss of the 9 hour tour for years 2 through 5. What is the CEA saying once you reach year six?



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I thought the City making you go to the range on your RDO was in violation of the FLSA, hence the SBA lawsuit a couple of years ago.

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Captains are considered management hence the reason why there was no cash ot. They sued long time ago and lost that battle because they were considered " management"

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signmy28 wrote:

I thought the City making you go to the range on your RDO was in violation of the FLSA, hence the SBA lawsuit a couple of years ago.


 I think detectives on a 4-2 rotation go on rdo also... They usually do the day tour (@pct) , 4x12(range) <-- your "off", the. Go back to work for a midnight....



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Inspector71 wrote:

effective January 1, 2016, with the exception of Captains in their first three years of service, members of the bargaining unit shall have the option each quarter in a calendar year of exchanging 67.5 hours of compensatory time earned in that quarter for 25 hours of cash paid at the straight time rate.   This money is pensionable compensation.

 

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!

Since you are able to exchange 67.5 hours ($4,882) that means you are doing 8 hour tours.

67.5 hours  = 8.3 tours X 4 = 33 Tours ($19,528)

25 hours of straight time (per quarter) = $1,808 X 4 = $7,232

Essentially you are getting paid $1,808 for eight tours. Anyone who accepts that trade should not be in a management position within ANY organization. How can the CEA bring this pile of crap to the membership? Why not keep the cash option, like years 1-3, for years 4 and above but reduce the amount to 100 hours per year?

The only benefit to this contract is the loss of the 9 hour tour for years 2 through 5. What is the CEA saying once you reach year six?


You wouldn't do this every quarter, just the last 4 quarters immediately before you retire. If you look at your final loan every 100K will cost you 8k/yr on your pension, so the real value here is approximately 45K, plus the 7k+ they'll pay you, so that's roughly $52,000 for 280 hours 



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Idk any senior executive who's doing 67hrs of OT.... My Inspector doesn't do one minute of OT.... Then again he has over 30yrs on the job

As per the language it states need to do OT in that quarter....

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Those who do not think this contract doesn't improve the current rank are nuts. Do the math with the 8 hour tours. That's effectively 23 weeks worth of time at work over years 2-5. This, in itself, makes the contract worthwhile. More money for less work. Currently, Captains who have completed year 5 do 8 hour tours. Nothing will change.

Also, 180 hours of OT for a few years.

And yes, the quarterly cash for time swap rate sucks. You don't have to do it. We have nothing like that now. Some may wish to do it their final year to bump their pensions even more. Some may not. But, adding choices to the rank IS not a negative.

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Well said Billy

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i love reading all the negative posts here. The one thing everyone is forgetting is it opens the door for the future. Who's to say 180 hours now or 100 hours does not become 210 and 150 in 4 years. It's sets a precedent that was never even thought of until now.
And yes it bridges the gap when you get promoted .
Take the test or not that everyone's individual call but let me tell the truth for once and shy from the usual cynicism. I'm a capt for about 14 months and took it with over 22 years on. Stupid to some and believe me I was torn at first. I was in a spot making ot, but mostly sporadic. Last year's total was about 15,000 less than my average. Yes immediate pay cut. That 180 hours bridges the gap completely from where I was originally.

And for all the other cynical statements: I was an xo with steady sun/mon off and did mostly 2-11 which I wanted. This was from day one. Duties are a joke and not as much as you are led to believe but of course every boro is different like every unit is and that's for the individual to find out.
From the first month you are always offered different things, and not only occb. I left and jumped to Db. Year later, take home car, sat/sun rdo and make own hours. Now the 180 puts me ahead of where I was originally.

And that ot thing let me tell you even as the xo I left on time when I wanted I wasn't swimming in it unless I wanted.

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tonyk6289 wrote:

i love reading all the negative posts here. The one thing everyone is forgetting is it opens the door for the future. Who's to say 180 hours now or 100 hours does not become 210 and 150 in 4 years. It's sets a precedent that was never even thought of until now.


I'm not a captain but basically this is right on point.  Making cash OT a possibility for the rank opens the door for more in the future.



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