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I have to say taking the 2015 LT. Test was an amazing experience. I studied, I went to crams, I watched videos, wow!! I thought I would do well. Boy was I wrong. The test was a disaster at least for me.
I wish someone would show Commissioner Bratton this exam. He can here with talks of boosting morale, Cops Count Cops Matter, He was going to have station houses fixed and cops are going to feel pride in wearing the uniforms and proud of their decisions to become police officers.
This test just showed that there are no changes that are going to be implemented that are going to accomplish any of these bull%^it goals.
I feel like such a fool. I believed the hype this was going to be a strait forward exam . DCAS wouldn't make the same mistake they did last time. Well here we are again SAME OLD DCAS BULL**IT.
I also hear that some guy "Capt. Insano" who was in charge of this exam is so happy and proud of himself and his staff. And he has a mountain of backup info proving that all the questions were legit.
Commissioner, If you want to accomplish any of your goals start by FIRING THAT GUY. Him and his staff just caused 2000+ sgts waste 6 to 10 months of their lives neglecting their families and spending money for nothing. Cops count cops matter, BULL.
I am disappointed that I can't advance in my profession regardless of how diligent i complete the tasks that are assigned to me because I wasn't born with a photographic memory and I cant memorize obscure procedures that are currently not in practice.
Maybe instead of going to the protest session we should just protest.
Bratton's last book came out before his return. DC Tumin co-wrote it with him. I caught a lengthy interview about the book on the radio. OWS was full force when he was promoting it. If you recall, the 'white shirts' were taking a lot of heat because they were the ones locking people up. The interviewer actually brought it up. Part of Bratton's defense of the 'white shirts' literally mentioned tests. He essentially said supervisors devote enormous time and energy to passing civil service exams. If anything that reflects greater than average dedication to the job, professionalism etc. Obviously I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist of it. I don't know why it stuck on my mind. I wasn't studying at the time.
If I saw him today I would mention this test and remind him of that interview. This has to change.
Bratton is nothing more then a politician. In much the same way The Golfer-In-Chief promised to end pverty, pay off everyones mortgages, and that the world would grow to love the United States because of him, everything is a lie. There is still poverty, the economy is still in shambles and anyone who is poor who voted for him is still poor. Much the same way Hillary "Pants Suit" promised all these jobs for the upstate NY region , ( i mean the finger lakes region, buffalo area, adirondacks) while she was Senator and it is still a economic disaster with no job creation. DeBlowsio with his promise of no more pedestrian accidents, ( they still occur), "affordable housing" , ..(where is it?) this town is still one of the most expensive places to live in, in the world...
Bratton is just the same, promise the world, and when question, feed some horse **** to the media who never challenge these scammers.
Dont think for a second that the "next Lt. exam" will be easier, DCAS dont care, the PC dont care, the unions certainly dont care. as you can tell by their dead silence...
so you want to waste your $$$ and time from family, maybe lose a girlfriend or boyfriend, by hunkering down for 8-12 months + be my guest, not me...
I wish someone would show Commissioner Bratton this exam. He can here with talks of boosting morale, Cops Count Cops Matter, He was going to have station houses fixed and cops are going to feel pride in wearing the uniforms and proud of their decisions to become police officers.
This test just showed that there are no changes that are going to be implemented that are going to accomplish any of these bull%^it goals.
Maybe instead of going to the protest session we should just protest.
frankie099:
I could not agree with you more. Our rant should not be limited to this forum. Many of us worked extremely hard and dedicated time away from our families and loved ones preparing for this exam not to go out without a fight. We need to voice our thoughts to the powers to be in regarding this exam in order for change to come. If we do not voice oursvelves we can assure ourselves to see another bogus LT exam, for the third time in a row.
Commissioner Bratton has been working on improving moral. Since in office he has sent out numerous emails/surveys during asking for our thoughts and opinions on how to improve this department and we should express ourselves. As we all know, he kicked off a re-engineering initiative program to focus on specific facets of the police department that need improvement. Commissioner Bratton has repeatedly said that he wanted to make a thorough audit of the department and focus on areas that need improvement. I feel like we need to come together and voice our opinions.
What direction is this department going when such exam killed the morale of majority of the supervisors who took this past LTs exam.
As Ive stated on a previous post :
New York City took a lost with this exam.
Once again they lost out on great potential, great supervisors with this ridiculous exam.
Both DCAS and the Dept have to evaluated what makes a good supervisor and the standards of these bogus exams.
The city wants to do what's right for the city.
The city wants PD to do what's right for the city.
But both DCAS and these test writers killed the moral of the officers who keep the city safe with this ridiculous, non realistic exams this past saturday.
People who do not understand think its only a test, but its more than just a test. This is our lives test bogus exam is experimenting with. Not to mention, the future of this department.
Good supervisors and leaders is what the department need not kill the moral and potential of their members of the service.
And since when you can use highlighters on a written. My classroom was informed of this literally 5 seconds after the bell rang. ITS A WRITTEN EXAM!!
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Monday 20th of April 2015 08:44:28 PM
TransitSucks: but is this "new way" for the better for the department. I am sure the "powers to be" are interested and invested in the better of the department. And I agree, I feel like this will be the "new way" nypd will be giving their promotional exams UNLESS we speak out on it.
After all, the department should ask themsleves what was wrong with the "old way" these exams were given?
The only thing I can think this new way is doing is killing morale.
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Monday 20th of April 2015 08:44:09 PM
Strait forward exam ...ground ball Lt. Duty questions... 2000 man list ...but with the rate of retirements and no one wanting the captain rank you only get at most 200 hires a year..
So you make the list with a great score of 85 and you the list gets cut after 4 years and you don't make it...But you made the list...NO matter what the outcome no one will be happy...
The 06 exam was fair , 1500 person list...who gives a rats a55...the list was cut..SO its a no win situation either way.
WOULD YOU JUST WATCH THE HAIR. I SPEND ALL NIGHT DOING MY HAIR AND HE HITS IT...HE HITS MY HAIR
To better answer your question, which exam is that you speak of, where 2000 people made the list? would you happen to know how many people signed up for that exam & how many people got made out of the list of 2000 people?
And I understand life isn't fair, that is not what I am disputing. I am also glad to hear that was a fair exam. But for guys who I know that studied hard to walked out that exam scratching their heads not having the slightest idea of how they did, that is a bit of a concern of mine, which is what I am ranting about.
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 12:00:37 AM
What I am getting at is, if we collectively use our resources, express our concerns to the right people, hopefully we will be reasoned with regarding this bogus exam. and the days of "this new era of bogus exams" will go back to the days of the fair exams. the one you spoke of above.
Bratton and our tough test is of no concern to him .. He's the commish In a liberal city where politicians don't want enforcement but wants the crime to continue to decrease . Sure he's gonna be concerned looking at our putrid test scores while seeing the rise in shootings while deblasio is yelling at him about fatal collisions .
I am sure one of Bratton's concern is to decrease crime, however, he can effectively control crime through middle management. The way this exam was written, as previous other exams, should be re-evaluated. The 2011 LT's exam had how many who passed initially and had how many throw outs, that alone is a red flag. Once the results for this 2015 LT exam come in, that alone should be another red flag.
Morale in any department plays a crucial role on how effective their members are, whether it's combatting crime or community policing. This exam did not but kill morale and that I believe should be a concern to the Police Commissioner.
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 02:49:46 AM
I'd rather pass and die on a list for a straight forward test knowing the people who scored higher than me simply put in more time and effort than fail due to a roll of the dice on which questions were research or thrown out on an unfair exam. On one hand you have to just try harder next time, on the other hand you have to question whether or not you want to put yourself through the torture only to be screwed over again and rely on luck.
I hope Bratton is aware of this and knows that the people who are actually trying to be the future leaders of this department are being denied advancement because people keep trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe we should just put all of our names in a hat next time and pick the list that way.
I'd rather pass and die on a list for a straight forward test knowing the people who scored higher than me simply put in more time and effort than fail due to a roll of the dice on which questions were research or thrown out on an unfair exam. On one hand you have to just try harder next time, on the other hand you have to question whether or not you want to put yourself through the torture only to be screwed over again and rely on luck.
I hope Bratton is aware of this and knows that the people who are actually trying to be the future leaders of this department are being denied advancement because people keep trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe we should just put all of our names in a hat next time and pick the list that way.
Exactly, make a fair test, guys who put in 12 hour days will get in the 90's and promoted right away, those who put in a good effort will score lower and wait a few years and people who half assed it will get low 70's and be cut or fail.
This test was so random and weird, if I passed it is mostly luck, even though I studied extremely hard. Anyone who really studied and was scoring 90 - 100 on every single practice exam and rewrite should at least make the list and have a chance.
I'd rather pass and die on a list for a straight forward test knowing the people who scored higher than me simply put in more time and effort than fail due to a roll of the dice on which questions were research or thrown out on an unfair exam. On one hand you have to just try harder next time, on the other hand you have to question whether or not you want to put yourself through the torture only to be screwed over again and rely on luck.
I hope Bratton is aware of this and knows that the people who are actually trying to be the future leaders of this department are being denied advancement because people keep trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe we should just put all of our names in a hat next time and pick the list that way.
Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. Our voices will be heard if we speak out loud enough. Together there are many resources and avenues we can use so that we effectively reach the right people.
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 04:24:46 AM
Obvioisly this Captain knew of the techniques that Prep Schools used and countered it. There was many procedures that i was surprised not to see on the test. It was made to try and mentally break you and go against all you were prepared for. Strategically placed questions to hang you up and leave you scrambling to finish the exam....
This test was a complete joke. I feel bad for all the men and women on this job who have kids that they had to push to the side to try to make a better living. To say the commish had no idea what was going on please spare me the bull. He knew this mental case who was bounced from Boro to Boro was assigned to this test. They wanna test you on stupid liason questions no wonder when some supervisor has a **** show on there hands they can't even figure out what to do. But hey they know who the liason is to aspca. It starts from the top and works it's way down with this job. The PC should be ashamed. All the re engineering meetings I guess fell on def ears. Pass or fail I could careless at this point if everyone turned down the promotion I would be more than happy to.
avp2105: We all feel your frustration. I am sure we all would agree that this exam was a complete joke.
However, in this department we know there has been many instances where the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.
Is it possible that Bratton did know about this exam, maybe, but we can not cut ourselves short by assuming he did. Once thing is for sure, the PC should be aware of the same concerns maybe of us are sharing regarding this exam.
Many of us have scaraficed the past several months of our lives preparing for this exam. With all the free time we have now it will be worth letting our voices be heard.
I think he will know soon and it will be a major concern. A Lt's exam is given every 4 years or so... To have such a major test and to possibly only have 100 people passing should be a huge priority
By the time the next test is administered, there will be an entirely different PC in office. Last yet was even a bigger disaster and that was almost 4 years ago.
Everybody OTJ knows about this test now. It's not in the job's best interest to conduct tests like these for numerous. That being said, I suspect the 'brilliant' solution they'd devise would be even less fair and more arbitrary. The job is hopeless. It could screw up a cup of coffee.
As for caring, it's a very short list. Right now it's us. After the protest, the people who cracked 70 will stop caring. After the throw outs, those put over 70 by them will stop caring too. Conversation on here will turn to rumors about when the list will be promulgated and no one will want to hear from the people still hanging around complaining how unfair the test was. How F'd up the test was will be a footnote, a war story.
I am as furious as anyone and I appreciate the opportunity to vent on here. Still, some of you guys are obsessing. It's not healthy. Some of you need to try to calm down, walk away from this forum for a day or two, take a breath and get this out of your heads. When we can start talking protests great. Those will be productive conversations. Talking about evil Captains, going to the media and bending the knee before Bratton to plead for mercy are not. It's kind of embarrassing actually. We're supervisors of police for crying out loud!
notonelevel: I would like to think Bratton does not yet know the negative effect this exam has had on it's memebers. However, I truly feel if we formally express our valid thoughts to Bratton through the channels he would at least listen to our concerns.
I am no expert at writing these exam nor I am at taking these exams. But I feel the department will benefit more if we were given a realistic exams based on encounters that we will more than likely come across while performing duty rather than the direction this exam took.
Likey many have expressed on this forum, I would rather die on a challeneging but fair exam and have those who actually studied pass based on their knowledge and hard work they have put in studying, rather than having a bogus exam, where majority of the exam takers scored in the mid 60s and the one of the highest score reported is a 75.
After reading whats posted on this forum and speaking to fellow colleagues many of us are riding on the thoughts hoping we pick up a few answers after the protest. Our hard work and dedication should not to come down to a protest where we dispute a few questions hoping to pick up a few extra points.
I feel like this exam was 50% studying and 50% luck.
Our voices need to be heard, so moving forward the luck aspect in these exams are removed. These exams are admistered in a fashion that those who put in the hard work and study pass, not everyones scores ranging from 74-64.
Talking about evil Captains, going to the media and bending the knee before Bratton to plead for mercy are not. It's kind of embarrassing actually. We're supervisors of police for crying out loud!
DOA: bending the knee pleading for mercy is one thing, standing up as Supervisors in the New York City Police Department voicing our concerns as adults, hoping for change a better direction is another.
DOA: when someone gives you poor treatment, do you take it or you stand up for what you believe in, voice your thoughts with hopes that you can be reasoned with??!
-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Wednesday 22nd of April 2015 12:38:16 PM
Just remember how poorly we are being treated and do not treat your cops the same way.....we are all being screwed, the best way to handle it is to go to work and for some stop being tools thinking the job is in the level and hounding your cops for activity....at this pint wgaf just show up and b relaxed let the white shirts run around everyday like the world is ending.
How do I stand up for what I believe in? Do I go to a rally, the media and/or the PC to claim the test was a mess? Based on what, the fact I got a possible score of 68 on Gamblor's key?! We all know the numbers will provide ample ecidence this test was a disaster. Until you have the numbers, you have no data. Without data, you just look like a child having a temper tantrum. If that's what you want then you're on your own. We need to see the key before we really have anything to go with. By all means work on articulating your criticisms and formulating possible solutions now. The time will come when those concerns should be voiced. That time is not now. For your own good, in the meantime, get on with your life as best you can. I just probably wasted 8 months of my life on this. I'm not going to waste anymore of it being bitter.
The job screws over its hardest workers everyday. If you made it this far without knowing that, then you must have had a blessed career. Either that or you just didn't care to know it because it wasn't you getting screwed until Saturday. If either of those apply then let me be the first to welcome you to the NYPD.
I honestly believe the point of these past two lt tests has been to generate a short list that did not need to be cut. The 2006 test, which everyone will probably agree was fair and something anyone who studied pretty hard should be able to pass, generated too long of a list for the jobs purposes.
