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unborn · Guru

DO YOU NEED HELP PROTESTING QUESTIONS??? Come in here.

bronxraider · Veteran Member

I wish I could remember specifics! I have never been to a protest, but plan to attend this one. I already mailed my slip even though it is Sunday. Can you shed some light on how the protest session works? I mean do they give us a copy of the test? Are we to then look through it and then protest each question. how? On paper? verbally? I see this may take about the time of the test? I used the elite online pg, we may not bring electronics to the protest....and they do not provide patrol guides, did you see any one able to share reference materials during a protest session? I did not fully understand the instructions. They say bring reference materials to submit? Uh...what? Do people submit pages out of the pg and submit with a summary of their protest? Sorry for the million questions. I studied my ass off. I am not a stupid person. I am extremely frustrated with this test and want to prepare to go to battle for as much points as possible. Please help me imagine what it is like so I can be prepared.

There were def at least one question that were grammatically incorrect. There were some others that made NO sense. Are those able to be protested based on the fact that the question contained spelling etc error?

Is there a specific guideline or criteria to what is permissible to be protested?

I did not pm because I think others would benefit from your answers to these questions. I will not ever post any exam question clues or hints for sure.

Thanks in advance

-- Edited by bronxraider on Sunday 19th of April 2015 09:08:29 PM

-- Edited by bronxraider on Sunday 19th of April 2015 09:09:07 PM

sgt2be · Guru

bronx what is your score based on key?

bronxraider · Veteran Member

67

infinity · Senior Member

The process at the protest site.
They give you a copy of the exam, an answer sheet, scrap paper, and sheets to WRITE your protests. You must supply your own copies of the patrol guide procedures you are protesting. I had an idea of what questions I was going to be protesting, but I went through the patrol guide and brought every procedure that I remembered a question from. I also brought highlighters and highlighted the procedure number and actor to show why my answer was as good or better than theirs. You are allowed to discuss and pass whatever you want to the other people in the room.
When writing your protests you must write the entire question out and be totally thorough when explaining why their answer choice is incorrect and why the answer you chose is as good or better.
You should end your protest with
" I respectfully request the final answer key for question number 1 to read A/B." (Or whatever it is). If you want the question tossed becuase of not enough information in the question or all answer choices were correct or incorrect you would ask for it to read ABCD.

Here's from 2011 LT test with examples.
risingstarpromotion.activeboard.com/t46425669/protest-examples-from-the-key/

bronxraider · Veteran Member

wow. thank you so much for this.

FormerIAB · Member

Why would you want to protest?

HardExam · Senior Member

How many questions to people believe will successfully be protested?

TurdBurglar · Senior Member

what about questions from the inbasket for protesting. For example: for the 1st question I based my answer off of the reference material provided by them and not the pg. would I still need a copy of the guide for them to accept my protest?

infinity · Senior Member

I'm not sure what you mean. I would protest if what they gave you in the packet is different from the patrol guide but depending on the answer. That's tricky bc they tell you to base your answers from the information given.

Whenever you are quoting the patrol guide you should provide copies And highlight to show exactly what you mean.

Ex. Step 2 of 202-14 "Desk Officer" states " Perform duty in uniform". Bring that procedure and highlight it

-- Edited by infinity on Sunday 19th of April 2015 11:49:42 PM

sixmonthwonder · Guru

I have at least one for now, I'll get some procedural references and PM you later.

Bklyn net · Senior Member

Cims

supercop · Senior Member

The cims was a tough one but some how I got it right

Bklyn net · Senior Member

Can u PM what u got I can't find it despite what area they said it was in

supercop · Senior Member

Check your inbox Bklyn net

Prop26 · Veteran Member

Can you pm me too about the cims please? It was tough

letsssss gooooo · Senior Member

Please inbox me In regards to the cims one!

supercop · Senior Member

How I know you guys took the test inbox me some of the question ?

letsssss gooooo · Senior Member

That's true. Disregard.

robbob357 · Newbie

What about questions that were grammatically incorrect or not at all clear like question 89? It wasn't written in proper clear English. thanks!

unborn · Guru

bronxraider wrote:
I wish I could remember specifics! I have never been to a protest, but plan to attend this one. I already mailed my slip even though it is Sunday. Can you shed some light on how the protest session works? I mean do they give us a copy of the test? Are we to then look through it and then protest each question. how? On paper? verbally? I see this may take about the time of the test? I used the elite online pg, we may not bring electronics to the protest....and they do not provide patrol guides, did you see any one able to share reference materials during a protest session? I did not fully understand the instructions. They say bring reference materials to submit? Uh...what? Do people submit pages out of the pg and submit with a summary of their protest? Sorry for the million questions. I studied my ass off. I am not a stupid person. I am extremely frustrated with this test and want to prepare to go to battle for as much points as possible. Please help me imagine what it is like so I can be prepared.

There were def at least one question that were grammatically incorrect. There were some others that made NO sense. Are those able to be protested based on the fact that the question contained spelling etc error?

Is there a specific guideline or criteria to what is permissible to be protested?

I did not pm because I think others would benefit from your answers to these questions. I will not ever post any exam question clues or hints for sure.

Thanks in advance

-- Edited by bronxraider on Sunday 19th of April 2015 09:08:29 PM

-- Edited by bronxraider on Sunday 19th of April 2015 09:09:07 PM

The protest session lasts as long as the test does. You can show up when it starts or anytime before the end of the session.

You don't get a copy of your answers but you can bring your pink sheet in. Don't make any marks on the pink sheets. You can't use any electronic reference materials but you can bring in all the printed stuff you want (ie PG procedures).

Typos and grammar will not get a question thrown out, sorry. It boils down to you being able to say "Choice A is just as good/better than proposed Choice B" or "There are no correct answers to this question," and being able to justify it.

unborn · Guru

robbob357 wrote:
What about questions that were grammatically incorrect or not at all clear like question 89? It wasn't written in proper clear English. thanks!

Grammatically incorrect - probably not... Not at all clear - maybe, if you want PM me with details.

New2this · Senior Member

If I cannot understand the question how can I make a valid selection of I can't understand the damn question

infinity · Senior Member

You have over 6 hours. Protest whatever you want , just prioritize and use your time wisely. Start writing things down now that you remember. Just be aware when you get to the protest session you cannot use your own notes and you will be surprised that some of the information you remember will be incorrect. I brought a few procedures thinking I read one thing at the exam and when I got to the protest I was like S***, they got me.

If you start pulling out procedures now you will be ahead of the game. When you sit down you already know what questions your gonna attack

-- Edited by infinity on Monday 20th of April 2015 01:04:45 PM

notonlevel · Veteran Member

I totally agree. You realize at these protest sessions that the stress from the test caused your mind to totally misread the question and not pick up on many things. This test was specifically written to do that. No doubt. They either picked this miserable psycho on purpose or the job really has no intrest on how theae tests are given.

fodx · Guru

I wanna protest this exam as a whole. Questions? For all I know they were all written perfectly but that's not the point.

On Point Info · Senior Member

It's no secret that Operation Orders were tested. I am not here to cite the actual ones that were tested but to provide some ammunition for a protest. Take a look at the following from the AG; so bring a copy of this procedure to the protest session. Just trying to help. That pony tailed Captain may not have researched this when making his question.

AG 322-29

PROCEDURES MAY NOT BE PUBLISHED IN AN OPERATIONS ORDER EXCEPT WHEN NECESSARY IN ANNOUNCING A PILOT PROGRAM.

Operations Orders expire upon conclusion of the event or situation which is the subject of the Order, or one year after publication, unless otherwise directed. Operations Orders are published by the Office of Management Analysis and Planning after approval of the Police Commissioner.

IShredMajors · Senior Member

On Point Info wrote:
It's no secret that Operation Orders were tested. I am not here to cite the actual ones that were tested but to provide some ammunition for a protest. Take a look at the following from the AG; so bring a copy of this procedure to the protest session. Just trying to help. That pony tailed Captain may not have researched this when making his question.
AG 322-29
PROCEDURES MAY NOT BE PUBLISHED IN AN OPERATIONS ORDER EXCEPT WHEN NECESSARY IN ANNOUNCING A PILOT PROGRAM.
Operations Orders expire upon conclusion of the event or situation which is the subject of the Order, or one year after publication, unless otherwise directed. Operations Orders are published by the Office of Management Analysis and Planning after approval of the Police Commissioner.

Directly from the Notice of Examination:

The test may include questions which require mastery of technical knowledge based on such materials as the NYCPD Patrol Guide, Administrative Guide, Interim Orders, Legal Bureau Bulletins, New York State Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law, Family Court Act, Vehicle & Traffic Laws (VTL) and Mayor's Executive Order No. 16 of 1978, as amended, and may address any of the following areas: Aided Cases; Accidents; Complaints; Summonses; Arrests; Prisoners; Property; Court and Agency Appearances; Patrol Supervision; Special Patrol Operations; Disciplinary Matters; Personnel Matters; Uniforms, Equipment and Department Property, in effect up to and including January 18, 2015.

Link to NOE

No where in the NOE does it say that Operation Orders are testable. Is there something I am missing? Can anyone show me somewhere that it says Operation Orders are testable?

-- Edited by IShredMajors on Monday 20th of April 2015 11:09:19 PM

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Good point

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

great job bringing this to our attention

this is definitely something to inquire about.

-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Monday 20th of April 2015 11:32:01 PM

IShredMajors · Senior Member

Samiam32 wrote:
Good point

LOL....seriously.....someone tell me where it says they are allowed to ask this!!!

JobsAJoke · Senior Member

The Cims question was on point, the answer was provided in both the Key and Elite material.

infinity · Senior Member

They protested all the Operations orders on 2013 Capt exam. All denied.

TiNmAn · Senior Member

Was it in the NOE?

Suckerpunched · Veteran Member

NOE. NOTICE OF EXAMINATION

Suckerpunched · Veteran Member

My only hope is that Ops orders were the research questions...for them to gauge how many people actually read the ordera before a test...so that they can start to incorporate them on future tests.

Suckerpunched · Veteran Member

What number was the cims questions, does anyone remember?

I got that one right.

supercop · Senior Member

Ops order have been on tests already

Slate · Senior Member

I agree with majors, we might have a shot at protesting OOs since they are not written into our NOE. 2013 sgts NOE had Operation Orders written into the test description section. Someone might have dropped the ball. We have to do a little more research on this topic. What does everyone think?

Slate · Senior Member

Captains protested Operation Orders based on the age of the order as per AG procedure that states that OO expires after one year and not on its existence in NOE, at least thats what i was told

sixmonthwonder · Guru

If anyone remembers what number the Active Shooter question was, please PM it to me. Whether I got it right or wrong, it's 100% a throw out, double answer at the least, but much more likely a throw out.

infinity · Senior Member

OO were tested on 2013 capt. Not on NOE. Fair game. Wasnt thrown out

Slate · Senior Member

How was it protested?

Sosgunner · Senior Member

!!!!!!!!

-- Edited by Sosgunner on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 04:45:32 AM

-- Edited by Sosgunner on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 04:45:54 AM

Sosgunner · Senior Member

pm me sixth month wonder

-- Edited by Sosgunner on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 04:48:18 AM

unborn · Guru

sixmonthwonder wrote:
If anyone remembers what number the [...] question was, please PM it to me. Whether I got it right or wrong, it's 100% a throw out, double answer at the least, but much more likely a throw out.

Very nice. Any other questions you'd like to give away to the cheaters?

DOS_EQUIS · Senior Member

no one should be privately inboxing anyone about any specific questions that were on the exam.

for those who have questions, let them ask people in their respective commands. people in their commands should know whether they actually took the exam or they are scamming.

Online, you never know whose who, and can't confirm for certain if they took the exam.

I am not singling anyone out, but if my memory is sparked correctly, a scammer is a scammer. They will scam you to believe they took the exam.

-- Edited by DOS_EQUIS on Tuesday 21st of April 2015 02:55:58 PM

Gthr · Veteran Member

I've been thinking about it a lot and since they left "Operations Orders" completely out of the NOE, that HAS to be a valid reason to get them tossed. As other people have noted, Operations Orders were listed on other exams and not this one. I really think them leaving it out was a mistake on their part because it mentions everything else.

EDPs R Fun · Senior Member

This is true and if I am not mistaken, it doesn't even say the phrase, "But Not Limited To" either.

fodx · Guru

Does anyone remember exactly how many operations orders questions there were?