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CAPT TEST 2014


HEARING A CAPT TEST IS SCHEDULED FOR 9/27/14!



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I've heard the same thing. I wonder what it will mean for the "survivors" of #4500 - will our list come out soon, will it move reasonably fast etc.



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Interesting. I'm sure over the next few weeks the promotional schools will be sending out the same anticipatory messages.

Not to discount Justthefacts prediction re Sept 2014 promotions which seems very accurate, (it is historically on the money, test to first class stretch was 10 months for 2012 Capt and 11 months for 2010 Capt), however if this new test is only 10 months after the old one, and 4500 yields a 50-60 person list, they will need at least 1 full year to promote everyone off 4500 (average per yr per personnel orders is 47-50 capts, at a rate of 12-13 roughly every quarter), before they promulgate Sept '14. So either they will start 4500 earlier (say End of June) so that by July 2015 4500 is done and they put out the next list (thats on course for a 10 month wait minimum), or they wait until Sept 2014 to promote more than the avg 12-14 at a clip. Not to mention there are 30+ if I am correct (including 10 voluntary deferred promotions) remaining for 2012 Capt so it will be intersting how this all pans out.



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Just the facts is full of shyt and has put out nothing but bad information so far. There will not be a promotion to Captain exam in 2014.



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Wannabecaptain wrote:

Just the facts is full of shyt and has put out nothing but bad information so far. There will not be a promotion to Captain exam in 2014.


 My sources tell me differently.......been directed to start working on study material 



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Brat when do you think they will start promoting off of test 4500?

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Sergeantslaughter wrote:

Brat when do you think they will start promoting off of test 4500?


soon after they complete the last one.........I don't have any inside info on that



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Thanks brat.



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Yano is preparing for a test this fall.

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1534sux wrote:

Yano is preparing for a test this fall.


 And so am I



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brat4914 wrote:

1534sux wrote:

Yano is preparing for a test this fall.


 And so am I





Start a new school Brat. Ill sign up.

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1534sux wrote:
brat4914 wrote:

 

1534sux wrote:

Yano is preparing for a test this fall.


 And so am I



 



Start a new school Brat. Ill sign up.


kind of hard when I am doing it for the dept 



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brat4914 wrote:
Wannabecaptain wrote:

Just the facts is full of shyt and has put out nothing but bad information so far. There will not be a promotion to Captain exam in 2014.


 My sources tell me differently.......been directed to start working on study material 


 That is not going to make the guys and gals that were hoping for a throw out or 5 feel too good.



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Not at all..**** dcas once again

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they have to give another test regardless of throwouts.. theres gonna be so many people without time in rank and college. maybe they are expecting a mass exodus and promotions will exceed the typical 60 a year.

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I know wannabe is no fan of mine but it seems my information is usually 2 weeks ahead of when it goes factual. I had the next captains exam listed as 9-20-14 and as you see it is scheduled for 9-27-14. i was off by 1 saturday. Wannbe u passed and don't have to worry about taking the next one. Im posting the announcement for those like me who were unable to pass this one. No excuses some of us just did not get it done on 11-23-13. You did.

I also posted the list was at 56 names and yesterday many of confirmed from your own independent sources that the list is actually at 57 names. Once again off by 1 name, maybe i read 1 scantron wrong. As always my apoligies. Some like the info and some do not need the information.

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I can't see pop spending money on classes. .just print out the 30 or so interim orders and your set...I'm not wasting my money when I have all the material

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Honestly how can you prepare?? The schools have no clue and either does the know it all brat. No one knows what the **** dcas and theses losers that write the test have plan. After being at the top of two tests and studying my ass off for this one and coming up short I'm done playing games.l

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RayFinkel wrote:

Honestly how can you prepare?? The schools have no clue and either does the know it all brat. No one knows what the **** dcas and theses losers that write the test have plan. After being at the top of two tests and studying my ass off for this one and coming up short I'm done playing games.l


 Correct NO ONE knows



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The 2011 Lt's exam and the last Captain's exam proved one thing...
The schools give you a solid base of the most testable information. In the past, that was enough. A lot of people made these lists just by reading Key packets. Those days are over. You have to know everything. The people writing the exams went through the same promotional schools we did. They know what has been traditionally asked and what's often stressed by the schools and they're purposely avoiding those topics. When they come across a topic or minor fact that most studiers will know, they don't ask it. The amount of minutiae that was required to be known for the last Captain's exam...just to break a 70...truly made it, in my opinion...the hardest test this job has ever given. There is no full proof way to prepare anymore. It's basically a crapshoot. 



-- Edited by stiggityone on Saturday 1st of March 2014 12:21:22 PM

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Great post Stiggy that is exactly what I was going to post. Many people have asked me my opinion on how to study for the upcoming LT exam. I took the key for all 3 ranks. I am one of the fortunate to have passed the captains exam. My advice is to them is that you really need to read everything now. No more shortcuts. To add to what Stiggy said, everything they has been stressed from prior exams (example - initialing below in record room blotter, even though it's gone from PG) that was maybe asked once and probably never again. All those minute details are one and done. I focused all my attention on these little things and the main points for the 2011 test and there was nothing from all that. I bombed the PG section, and was saved by all the weird questions. Studying for the capt exam I did the opposite. I focused a lot on the admin guide and really buckled down on the obscure PG sections and by doing that I was lucky enough to pass.

The way these tests are going, it's impossible to give advice. There is no rhyme or reason, it's impossible to know everything. You can't memorize every section and remember what the sgt, lt and capt duties are in order, as well as knowing if the captain prepares form, ensures it's prepared, forwards it or ensures it's forwarded, who forwarded to, 49s, direct/channels and all the recipients and how many copies of each. It's exhausting.

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Stiggity is right on the money. I have conferred with dozens of people to try to figure the "method of madness to 1534 and 4500." Couldn't quite nail it down until reading his post just now, and it makes perfect sense.  The "Gamechangers" (exam writers) took the older exams and know the classic formula questions that promotional schools/prior tests ask and have decided to "turn the formula on it's head" going for the minutiae. (unsure of exact spelling, feel free to bash if I got it wrong).  This coupled with an ever-expanding Department Manual/IOs/OOs have made a triple-threat: over 3900 pages of info to memorize (that's just the PG plus the AG), the absence of those formula gimmes such as MEO of 1978 and 2 LBBs, and other variables thrown in by DCAS (such as the 30 extra questions which I know did not apply here but just citing as example).  Even the inability of the promoschool guys to sit and take it/no online answer key has to be factored in. The end result is unfortunately a harder, more challenging exam, and when faced with such it is easier to write a test using trivia and changing one tiny word in a verbatim passage (used in almost a dozen questions on 4500) to make the question "work" with minimal effort. Hey, if you want to hairsplit some quotes out of 320-xx for a Capt question, then beat them at their game by (at least) trying to memorize the quotes as if you were rehearsing exact lines for a Shakespearean play or Dante's Inferno to make sure they don't get you on that one little word (this is where the audio files can come in handy). I fervently think that it is a strategy, that is now being turned on its head, and the only way to win the game is to out-strategize the new breed of exam writers by coming up with counterformulas for their newest tricks. The promotional schools must follow suit with this too if they are to retain their legitimacy, to an extent-at the end of the day, the course to me is a Supplement (like Yano's analogy); what you do on your own to strategize and prioritize what you focus on is the Meat and Potatoes of it.

This is going to sound crazy, but halfway through studying I decided to analyze my packet questions, and any other question I could get my hands on, to "compstat" if you will, the 'what exactly is this question specifically getting at'. I forget the totals now, but a certain percentage went for a Captain's duty. Another percentage went to a PO's duty. Another went to a Unit Name. Another went to an Approver (ie COD, 1DC...). Another went to who gets a 49.  Another went to a NYC-Centric entity (i.e. 311). Another went to those Beloved Verbatim Roman Numeral passages. It wasnt an exact science, and it certainly didn't get me a hundred, but it was a strategy that helped me in the end.  And if I had it to do all over again, I would have concentrated (a lot) more on Verbatims (for heavies like EIU and Hostages, not every single procedure, thats impossible) and Approvers. 212-70 I read once and couldn't remember the actor (acceptable loss, you can't win em all). So I guess if I did it again I would give a bit more weight to the trivia.

Thats my 2 cents for what it's worth. I know I'm among a tough crowd so let the criticism begin....



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Also- Going in knowing that I was going to take the hardest exam of my life, I studied ridiculous (albeit historically used items) such as Distributions. Every single one. And I don't think one of them made it to the test. (to the best of my memory, if Im wrong feel free to correct). So at the end, it is a Crapshoot as Stiggity says, because you could zero in on one facet, and they don't give one question on it. Or the reverse (disregard it and there's 5 questions on it). I even zeroed in on the items that a guest instructor was raising his voice about, because they seemed like really good distinctions, and only one of those topics made it to the test. It's a crapshoot bottom line, and you have to know everything, or at least 95 percent of it.



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I used to think that all that separated the passers from the failures was hard worker/good test taker vs moderate studier/poor test taker. After that last Captain's test, I am starting to believe luck plays a major factor. You just can't word for word memorize all the information in the pg/AG. At some point you have to get lucky and hope that the exam writers ask the bull**** you know best. Before you needed to have a general working knowledge of a large amount of material. Now...like you said...you need to be able to recite verbatim a large amount of material. That's a huge difference. I got saved on the Lt's test by all the grammar, math, and judgement. I took a beating on the patrol guide. Same thing on the Captain's test. I got hammered on patrol guide but I knew the admin guide cold. Just put me on the right side of a 70. I erroneously focused heavy on Captain duties in the guide. I guess that wasn't the proper strategy. The only advice I could give is go to two classes. Most, if not all, of the people that passed went to Yano and the Key. If you look at the list of known passers, most were at the very top of their sgt and lt lists.


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I promised myself I wouldn't post anymore because I don't have a "horse in the race" but I couldn't help myself. So, here is one man's opinion...

The reason why these exams are complete horse $hit has nothing to do with the guide(s) or the information they contain but simply the quality of the test writer.  Let me explain what I mean.

Most, if not all of us who desire the rank of captain have delusions of grandeur.  We envision ourselves wearing "scrambled eggs" on our eight point caps and enjoying all the perks that come with being chief, however, we dare not say that out loud because we want to avoid sounding like a narcissistic egotistical prick.  We're required to say that we're doing it for "the money" or to retire with an Inspector's pension (absolutely valid reasons), but never because we want to be a high level executive. 

So now after thinking about what I just said, do you honestly think that a captain who is on their way to getting their own command (and probably a promotion) going to ask their borough commander to be excused for six months so they can write an exam?  If they do, they're done and so is their promotional career.  So what do you get? Someone who is not qualified to write greeting cards but since their Boro C.O./Bureau Chief/Deputy Commissioner is looking to dump their problem child, now all of a sudden you have a test writer.  Throw DCAS in the mix and you get what we had the past few years....garbage exam after garbage exam.

A person I know, and who did exceptionally well on exam #4500, said it best when he said "tests are meant to be passed."  How do people pass the bar, series 7 or even the SAT?  Are they just lucky, too?  If they put the time and effort in, do they fail miserably too?  Maybe...but I beg to differ.

If I were to write an exam and people got a perfect score, I wouldn't be insulted and I wouldn't feel like "they won," I wouldn't care.  I don't know what happened along the way but remember when they use to say that anybody can walk in off the street and get a score of 50, that the real test was the other 50 questions?  I don't know what was wrong with that philosophy and when it became a badge of honor to write some bull$hit question that even the test writer doesn't know what they're asking but if you don't study, you ain't passin'...period.  No need to play games with us or go to some minute detail in an obscure procedure from a time in the police department that no longer exists.

 

To sum up this rant before the Trauma Counselors come with their authorized NYPD windbreakers and take me away to QGH, I believe once the Department, in conjunction with DCAS, standardizes our exams and the test writing procedure, we will no longer feel like we're simply rolling the dice when walking into the next promotional exam.



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So why not pick qualified people to write exams and not give them a choice (regardless of their assignment)?  But make sure their career does not suffer either.   that way they don't feel like they are ruining their chance at promotion by writing a test.



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I think the best way to do it would be to write fair exams and bring back the cutoff. If 235 people score 84 and up and you need that many Captains over the next four years then 84 is the cutoff. Give the test every four years.



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So what you are all saying is, no one really knows. Way too much introspection, but I get it!

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I can tell you how to get a 67 if you want? But im Clueless on how to get a 70

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