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I just got back my envelope i sent dcas for the protest, all that was in the envelope was my green slip with the original envelope, nothing else no date or time for protest, did this happened to anyone else? weren't they suppose to send me a day for the protest?
So let me see if I understand this thing correctly, in 2 more weeks that will make 5 weeks after the exam and people who go to the scheduled protest sessions will be given the answer key. So then the protests aren't until 5 weeks from the exam? And if you do not attend then the only way you will find out your score is when DCAS mails you the final answer key 6 months from now?
Depends what the city's plans with the current list are. If they are going to cut the 2011 list, then six months is a good bet. If they're going to run the list to the end, it'll be more like a year to 18 months until we know our scores.
Depends what the city's plans with the current list are. If they are going to cut the 2011 list, then six months is a good bet. If they're going to run the list to the end, it'll be more like a year to 18 months until we know our scores.
False. The list comes out the same time every time. Usually around 6-7 months after the test. The list gets held before it's activated. The real question which I think is the best is will your list be held up by a law suit. That's what you should be worried about.
Of course Turd, but I'm asking if a list would be published and then not used for months. I know the last couple of tests began promoting as soon as the list was published, but this time it's different because there are still 700+ names on the 2011 list.
I'm not worried at all about lawsuits holding it up. We all took the same test and nothing in the NOE was incorrect.
There were alot of people who are on the 2011 list who took this last exam. After talking to a few of them, they seem to think they are going to die on the list. I guess there are rumors going aroung that the list is going to get cut. But we all know that this job loves to spread rumors.
Forget rumors and look at the math. I did the arithmetic in another thread but roughly the job has promoted 47 a month since the 2011 list came our around April 2012. At that rate, the 2011 list doesn't run out until about February 2015.
Why give an exam a year and a half before the list from that exam would be needed? It leads me to believe the city is looking to cut the 2011 list at some point. On the other hand, this is the City of New York and the NYPD we are talking about, so any common sense has to be abandoned.
So, to quell any rumors, the list for the 2013 exam will not be established until they are prepared to promote off of it. There cannot be two simultaneous lists. When the list for this exam is established, they have to promote from it during the next hire. The only time they will promote from an old list with a new one established is when they are finishing off the old one and back fill the remainder of the slots with the new one. That is what was done for the 2009 exam.
Also, they will not kill the current list before the automatic expiration after four years if there are still eligibles on it. They have never done that previously and they won't start now. As of now, expect that the last 700 or so people on that list will be promoted and that it should take them roughly a year to do it. The test may have been given early in the event that there is a sharp increase in retirements due to the large number of Safe City, Safe Streets classes that have been hitting there 20. This may bring the list to its end in 8 months instead of 12. Either way, you have a bit before the 2013 exam has its list published.
Ok Gamblor, You are usually 100% correct but I have to disagree with you. For all of this MOS who have more than 15 years on the job, they know very well that a list can be cut at anytime. Just because there is an active list does not mean they have to go through every name. They can cut the list and establish a new one when ever they feel like it. Does it make it fair? He'll no it's not fair, but they can do it.... And they have done it in the past.
Ok Gamblor, You are usually 100% correct but I have to disagree with you. For all of this MOS who have more than 15 years on the job, they know very well that a list can be cut at anytime. Just because there is an active list does not mean they have to go through every name. They can cut the list and establish a new one when ever they feel like it. Does it make it fair? He'll no it's not fair, but they can do it.... And they have done it in the past.
I never said that they couldn't cut the list. I said that they wouldn't. Was anyone here actually on the job the last time they cut a list with people still on it, before the four years were up? I certainly can't remember the last time they did it, so it would predate me. My point being, yes they can, but they have absolutely no reason to do so and haven't as far back as I can remember.
They are only 800 something names deep in 2011 list. So.. who knows!
Why give an exam out if their plan was to not cut the list and establish a new one?
A giant money maker for the city, thats why.
The list currently at 919. The list can also anticipate another class before years end likely bringing the list to over 1000. After that, 600+ names are left on the list. A year is more than enough time to promote the remaining eligibles on the list.
I don't like to base my knowledge off of other people's words so I researched the matter myself. This is all I could find about how long DCAS haS to establish the list. Go to "4.6.3 publication of established lists". It states "An established eligible list shall be published as soon as practicable after establishment.". Absolutely nothing about a specific time frame. Someone also do some actual research and back me up please thanks
Just to squash other rumored required time frames, also read:
4.6.6. Duration of Eligible Lists.
(a) The duration of either an open competitive or promotion eligible list shall be not less than one nor more than four years from the date of establishment.
(b) Unless otherwise provided, an eligible list which has been in existence for one year or more shall terminate upon the establishment of an appropriate subsequent like list for the same title.
Remember this people, the city doesn't give a damm about anyone. As harsh as it may sound, but we all know it's the truth. They dont care how many months you stdied, or did you put your whole life on hold. All it tak3s for them is to say " Hey let's vut ghis list at 1000". That's bow simple it is. And if you die on on the list and protest you know what there answer would be.... " You should have taken this last exam!!!
Semp, I thought that whenever the card comes from DCAS with a score and list number, that list is now activated.
No the card will come in the mail with your list number most likely well before the list is activated. The 2009 list had their cards with their numbers for about year. The most recent captains list also had their numbers for a little bit of time. The list gets activated when the old list is finished with and the first person off the new list is put into BMOC.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Monday 11th of November 2013 06:00:19 PM
Ok Gamblor, You are usually 100% correct but I have to disagree with you. For all of this MOS who have more than 15 years on the job, they know very well that a list can be cut at anytime. Just because there is an active list does not mean they have to go through every name. They can cut the list and establish a new one when ever they feel like it. Does it make it fair? He'll no it's not fair, but they can do it.... And they have done it in the past.
The city cut lists which had scores raw that were failures 90% of the time. Also the NOE used to not specifically state a grade needed to pass and make a list simply on how many "top" scores would make the list. The last list to get cut was the 2003 list which had raw scores below 56 If they went all the way to the end of that list it would have been very sad indeed. I'm positive about this because I personally know some one who got promoted before all points added with that score in the second to last class of that list. the comparison of previous lists is not good. The fact is this dept has not cut a list early since establishing a passing grade and they most likely will not start because our list is bigger. Than the previous small lists. The 1999 list was above 1800 people all were made off that list And had a newer list waiting while that one finished up. Most people who actually work close with OMAP or EMD will tell you there has been not one word spoken about cutting this list early. People will also tell you that what has been spoken is how horrible the last test was and how it might generate a law suit and a very small list. Even more reason why the current list will not and for the most part can not be cut.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Monday 11th of November 2013 05:59:23 PM
Forget rumors and look at the math. I did the arithmetic in another thread but roughly the job has promoted 47 a month since the 2011 list came our around April 2012. At that rate, the 2011 list doesn't run out until about February 2015.
Why give an exam a year and a half before the list from that exam would be needed? It leads me to believe the city is looking to cut the 2011 list at some point. On the other hand, this is the City of New York and the NYPD we are talking about, so any common sense has to be abandoned.
They give tests with time so they never have a month where they don't have a list to promote off of is availablue which would not be good with constant retirements. All and pretty much any rumors of lists getting cut that you have heard have all stemmed solely from this forum unfortunately, not actually a relevant source or the dept. itself. Also if and this is a BIG if the most recent tests list comes out in time that would be April or May the earliest, and if that list is very small (below 800) the dept. really can't cut anything even if they wanted to. There are too many spots that need to be filled especially after that finest that came down Oct 31st that had over 500 retirements with in all ranks. The current list will be finished most likely by Dec That's not a long time hold by any means at all. this isnt the first and it won't be the last time people will have to wait for their spot.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Monday 11th of November 2013 07:22:51 PM
My info is solely from whats happened in the past 10 years. To me it seems the catch all phrase in that is "unless otherwise provided", what he posted is the required time frame a list "must" stay active does not have to. with that said this job has consistently kept a list active past the required year and held the new list for the old list to finish. the rule is the list must stay active for at least one year and can be cut with the establishment of a new list but does not have to be. The list will also only go a duration of four full years before it is dead. theres nothing more to say. You can easily reference many past promotional exams and lists. Plenty have continued promoting after a newer list was out. The 2013 list most likely will not cut the 2011 when and if it is made It will be held. I know that's hard for people to accept because some think they will pass a test and get promoted instantly. The fact is that usually does not happen. Lists always wait for older lists to finish. A great example is the NYPD entrance exams. There are tons of lists currently established but each list is held for the older list to finish. The same rules and regulations apply to these lists which are also administered by DCAS. These are all civil servant exams. Don't forget they all are held to the same rules and regulations. Either way I hope nothing but the best for both lists. Every one who passes these tests deserve to get promoted. Be safe pal.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Tuesday 12th of November 2013 05:19:44 AM
semp1, I have no idea where you get your info but TransitJoe posted a link to DCAS that completely contradicts what you are saying about how and when the list is established
Depends what the city's plans with the current list are. If they are going to cut the 2011 list, then six months is a good bet. If they're going to run the list to the end, it'll be more like a year to 18 months until we know our scores.
False. The list comes out the same time every time. Usually around 6-7 months after the test. The list gets held before it's activated. The real question which I think is the best is will your list be held up by a law suit. That's what you should be worried about.
There you go again Semp1. The list DOES NOT come out the same time every time. The 2002 list took about 6 months, the 2003 exam was held up by a lawsuit and took about 15 months to come out. But the 2006 list took about a year, the 2007 list took about a year, the 2008 list took about 8 months, the 2009 list was a bit odd in that the list came out over a year after the exam and with another list still active (2008 list) and if I remember correctly it took months after the 2009 list came out until they actually started promoting off it.
The 2011 list took about 6 months. My point? Lists can come out whenever and even when lists come out, it doesn't mean people get promoted off them right away, but usually they do. The 2009 list seemed to be around forever until they actually started promoting people off it to finish the 2008 list, but the 2002, 2003, 2006 lists killed previous lists as soon as they came out, the 2009 list was unique in that it did not kill the 2008 list.
First of all I'm not wrong obviously I'm aware a law suit can hold a list up I basically said that when I wrote "when and if it gets made" with in my text but still with no issues the list comes out naturally with in 6-7 months (I'm sorry should I change it to 6-8 months?) of the test unless it's held up because of something like the way the 2003 list was due to a law suit for what happened in the Bronx. Second of all I know when the 2009 list came out considering I was the one who told you a year ago on these forums that the 2009 test takers new their list numbers and got promoted a year later, the 2008 list was still active. Yes lists can get held up before they are released that's not what I am talking about. I guess you moved onto the 2013 forum to troll since the 2011 is almost done with. Good luck guys you'll all be fine regardless of when the list comes out.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Tuesday 12th of November 2013 04:25:28 PM
Depends what the city's plans with the current list are. If they are going to cut the 2011 list, then six months is a good bet. If they're going to run the list to the end, it'll be more like a year to 18 months until we know our scores.
False. The list comes out the same time every time. Usually around 6-7 months after the test. The list gets held before it's activated. The real question which I think is the best is will your list be held up by a law suit. That's what you should be worried about.
There you go again Semp1. The list DOES NOT come out the same time every time. The 2002 list took about 6 months, the 2003 exam was held up by a lawsuit and took about 15 months to come out. But the 2006 list took about a year, the 2007 list took about a year, the 2008 list took about 8 months, the 2009 list was a bit odd in that the list came out over a year after the exam and with another list still active (2008 list) and if I remember correctly it took months after the 2009 list came out until they actually started promoting off it.
The 2011 list took about 6 months. My point? Lists can come out whenever and even when lists come out, it doesn't mean people get promoted off them right away, but usually they do. The 2009 list seemed to be around forever until they actually started promoting people off it to finish the 2008 list, but the 2002, 2003, 2006 lists killed previous lists as soon as they came out, the 2009 list was unique in that it did not kill the 2008 list.
Semp1, not trolling just debunking your usual bad info that you brought to this forum too. OK so if you still think you are correct, then with no lawsuits or any other complications, the 2006 list took 10 months to come out and the 2007 list took 12 months. But under normal circumstances I would agree with you that most lists take between 6-8 months to get established and start promotions.
So who knows what happens now with pretty much everyone who wants to know how they did attending the protest sessions. Does it delay the list? Does it matter? Do they wait to promote nearly half of the 2011 list which could take a long time? I dunno.
Receieved 11/18/13 at 4pm via EMAIL
Aka stop crying notice.
Dear Candidate:
This notice is being sent to all candidates who took the exam for Sergeant (Police) #3539 in response to concerns that some candidates expressed about the inclusion of research questions and the amount of time provided for the test. Information about these questions and the exam time was delivered before the exam as follows:
The email blast sent by DCAS on 9/30/2013 and the NYPD FINEST MESSAGE sent on 10/03/2013 included the following:
"The multiple-choice test will contain additional questions which will be used for research purposes only. These questions will not count toward your test score and will not be included in the protest review process. However, you should answer all questions in the test booklet. "
Also, the Admission Notice mailed to all candidates on 10/4/2013 included:
"Test Length: ONE SESSION OF 6 HOURS"
"The Test Length includes time for fingerprinting candidates, answering all questions including those that are for research purposes only, and documenting the test material that has been received by all candidates."
Finally, the instructions on the cover of the test booklet on the day of the test (10/19/2013) included:
"Time Allowed: 6 hours"
"TEST BOOKLET: This booklet has 100 questions - all of equal weight and an additional 30 questions distributed throughout the test that are for research purposes only. These research questions will not count toward your test score, and therefore, will not be included in the protest review process. However, you should answer all questions in the test booklet prior to the end of the test."
The above information was given to help you pace yourself in answering all of the questions. Although the research questions do not count toward your Exam #3539 test score, they are important to the development of future Police promotion exams. They were distributed throughout the booklet and not identified so that candidates would answer them with the same level of motivation as any other test question. This is necessary and standard research practice, just as is done in many college and military school entrance exams and professional licensing exams. The time limit of six hours was considered appropriate based on experience with prior Sergeant and other uniformed services exams.
We hope that this information has helped to clarify any questions you may have regarding the administration of this exam.
The time limit of six hours was considered appropriate based on experience with prior Sergeant and other uniformed services exams.
Experience with prior exams? Hmmm... as far as I know, there have never been research questions, so it can't be based off experience on that.
And as far as I know, they do not document/record the amount of time it takes for people to complete the exam. So upon what criteria was it determined that a 30% lengthening of the exam without a corresponding increase in time allotted was appropriate?
The time limit of six hours was considered appropriate based on experience with prior Sergeant and other uniformed services exams.
Experience with prior exams? Hmmm... as far as I know, there have never been research questions, so it can't be based off experience on that.
And as far as I know, they do not document/record the amount of time it takes for people to complete the exam. So upon what criteria was it determined that a 30% lengthening of the exam without a corresponding increase in time allotted was appropriate?
exactly, base on past Sgt exams? Which one? can't make it up.
