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I read a lot of the threads on this forum, despite me having no stake in this test whatsoever. During the time I've been here, I've seen the same things over and over again. Every test has a repeat of complaints, threats, arguments, etc. and I would like to save everyone a ton of their time, and hopefully money.
Every test has some sort of controversy, either earned or implanted. This is nothing new. In the end though, after all of the talk, debate, phone calls made, letters written, and lawsuits filed, the exam is scored, a list published, and people promoted. There is absolutely nothing that anyone here is going to do about that.
In regards to this specific exam, I know many of you feel wronged by what has happened. However, the simple fact is that there was nothing improper or illegal about it. DCAS provided the appropriate notice and direction. They are under no obligation to hold your hand and spell out that you MUST answer vs SHOULD answer. That's just playing semantics. They are also under no obligation to provide 9 hours, or even 6 hours. They can make the upcoming Captain's test 4 hours, and as long as they put it in an amended NOE, they are good. It doesn't matter if you can't finish, everyone has the same constraints.
Also, with this exam, the research questions are entirely acceptable. Everyone was told and these types of questions are in nearly all standardized tests including the SAT, GRE, MCAT, CPA exam, TEAS exam, and on and on. There is nothing wrong with having them there...it isn't some weird experiment and needs no approval from anyone.
The reason I am spelling all of this out is because many of you are first time test takers with the Department. I am trying to explain that there are people that will cause a stir on every exam. Whether it is because they personally failed and want to fight the test, or because they simply want to troll everyone, it doesn't matter. Don't get dragged into it as you will only expend your very valuable time and energy. Eventually, people will talk more about lawsuits and someone will offer to get it started...and it will only cost you X. This will happen so resist the urge to throw away your money. The lawsuit against the 2011 Lieutenant's exam was dismissed just as soon as it was filed. The attorney there made some good money, and those Sergeants freely donated it.
Right now, the best thing you can do is attend the protest session and write legitimate, well thought out, letters protesting questions that were not possible to answer correctly with a single choice. Don't bother writing a protest that says something was spelled wrong, or it called something an accident rather than a collision. Focus your efforts on the truly impossible to answer questions, whether it was because the writers misunderstood the procedure, another procedure conflicted, or more than one answer was good (as per the PG). You will be doing the best service for yourself, and your fellow cops.
For those that passed the exam, congratulations and welcome soon to what I feel is the best rank on the job (better than lieutenant). If you failed, it isn't the end of the world. It isn't the old days where you had one or two chances at a promotional test your entire career. Sergeant exams are given almost annually these days. If you failed, study harder, improve your test taking and time management skills, and take it again in a year or two. If you persevere, you will get there.
Well said brother! I bombed the 07 test, i bombed the 09 test and i barely passed the 11 test... and it appears I did even better this time around. Never give up, never surrender! BTW Gamblor i emailed you again(xi???ix@aol.com) was wondering/hoping you could run my test again since you have about 50 more keys since than. When you have time o'course. ann ill double the doughnut order
Thank you Gamblor for posting the great spreadsheet. I plan on using it as a guide to direct my attention to questions that I feel deserve scrutinizing when I attend the protest session. The spreadsheet has also provided me with a general idea as to how I preformed on the test, however, I do realize that it is only as good as the test takers who are submitting their answers to you (myself included). I wholeheartedly agree with your levelheaded reasoning and urge everyone to approach the protest in the same manner. It would be a disservice to all who took their studying seriously to simply throw the test out - it is a farfetched idea that any test be thrown out! There were plenty of rumors circulating after the 2011 Sergeant's exam was given that it would be thrown out amid rumors of cheating. Something far worse than people saying that they didn't have enough time. The city is still promoting new bosses off the list that the 2011 test generated. It was never thrown out and history is repeating itself among new rumors.
Gamblor aren't you getting promoted on Friday? Turn it down and stay in the best rank on this job as you say......
Sergeant is a great rank and I've spent a lot of time in it, and while I don't look forward to losing all of my chart days and working a longer tour, I can't pass up the advancement of my career.
Besides, need to be a lieutenant to be a captain, and I will take that promotion too, despite not too many people actually wanting that rank.
Thank you Gamblor. You ARE the voice of reason on this board. You have nothing to gain by putting up a spreadsheet to give people an idea of where they stand. People that come on here with all these protests, lawsuits, etc are just delusional. Its NOT happening.
Gamblor aren't you getting promoted on Friday? Turn it down and stay in the best rank on this job as you say......
Sergeant is a great rank and I've spent a lot of time in it, and while I don't look forward to losing all of my chart days and working a longer tour, I can't pass up the advancement of my career.
Besides, need to be a lieutenant to be a captain, and I will take that promotion too, despite not too many people actually wanting that rank.
I concur whole-heartedly. I think Sgt is a better rank than Lt, but for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow Capt is the rank to be. It all depends on what you want out of your career.
I read a lot of the threads on this forum, despite me having no stake in this test whatsoever. During the time I've been here, I've seen the same things over and over again. Every test has a repeat of complaints, threats, arguments, etc. and I would like to save everyone a ton of their time, and hopefully money.
Every test has some sort of controversy, either earned or implanted. This is nothing new. In the end though, after all of the talk, debate, phone calls made, letters written, and lawsuits filed, the exam is scored, a list published, and people promoted. There is absolutely nothing that anyone here is going to do about that.
In regards to this specific exam, I know many of you feel wronged by what has happened. However, the simple fact is that there was nothing improper or illegal about it. DCAS provided the appropriate notice and direction. They are under no obligation to hold your hand and spell out that you MUST answer vs SHOULD answer. That's just playing semantics. They are also under no obligation to provide 9 hours, or even 6 hours. They can make the upcoming Captain's test 4 hours, and as long as they put it in an amended NOE, they are good. It doesn't matter if you can't finish, everyone has the same constraints.
Also, with this exam, the research questions are entirely acceptable. Everyone was told and these types of questions are in nearly all standardized tests including the SAT, GRE, MCAT, CPA exam, TEAS exam, and on and on. There is nothing wrong with having them there...it isn't some weird experiment and needs no approval from anyone.
The reason I am spelling all of this out is because many of you are first time test takers with the Department. I am trying to explain that there are people that will cause a stir on every exam. Whether it is because they personally failed and want to fight the test, or because they simply want to troll everyone, it doesn't matter. Don't get dragged into it as you will only expend your very valuable time and energy. Eventually, people will talk more about lawsuits and someone will offer to get it started...and it will only cost you X. This will happen so resist the urge to throw away your money. The lawsuit against the 2011 Lieutenant's exam was dismissed just as soon as it was filed. The attorney there made some good money, and those Sergeants freely donated it.
Right now, the best thing you can do is attend the protest session and write legitimate, well thought out, letters protesting questions that were not possible to answer correctly with a single choice. Don't bother writing a protest that says something was spelled wrong, or it called something an accident rather than a collision. Focus your efforts on the truly impossible to answer questions, whether it was because the writers misunderstood the procedure, another procedure conflicted, or more than one answer was good (as per the PG). You will be doing the best service for yourself, and your fellow cops.
For those that passed the exam, congratulations and welcome soon to what I feel is the best rank on the job (better than lieutenant). If you failed, it isn't the end of the world. It isn't the old days where you had one or two chances at a promotional test your entire career. Sergeant exams are given almost annually these days. If you failed, study harder, improve your test taking and time management skills, and take it again in a year or two. If you persevere, you will get there.
"The first mark of maturity is the ability to deal constructively with reality to face facts, to not cover up reality or call it something else, but to deal with it as it is. Mature people do not kid themselves. The second mark is, adapting quickly to change. We all experience change, whether it be physical, at work, in the family, or whatever. I am amazed at how much some of you have changed through the years while I remain exactly the same! Immature people resist change. It ma Kes them nervous. But the mark of maturity is to adapt to change because change is inevitable. .."
this is the adress that goes straight to the person in charge of the test. lets not be lazy guys..grab a piece of paper a stamp and envelope and write to them. be heard!!! mail your appeals and complaints to ------------
EXAM SUPPORT GROUP 1 CENTRE STREET, ROOM 1448 NY NY 10007 (ATT: DIRECTOR)
Gamblor, you're amazing.. (next to brat of course) thank you for the time you have put into everything for us.. especially since you have no need to, its truly appreciated. THANK YOU
This is pure nonsense. Sure, with every exam comes controversy and complaint, however THIS EXAM STANDS ALONE in atypical fashion. The entire exam is flawed in a multitude of aspects. To say SHOULD vs MUST is word semantics is correct, but isnt the entire test based on "word semantics" ? If you were to say the desk officer SHOULD make a Command Log entry each tour the member elects to safeguard his/her firearms, you'd be 100% wrong on test day and in the real world when your sitting in the trial room facing charges. The Patrol guide states, the desk officer MUST make a Command Log entry each tour the member elects to safeguard his/her firearms. DCAS clearly understand the difference between the two and to say we should have interpreted SHOULD as an absolute statement after studying tirelessley to recognized the and disfigush the difference between the two, is assanine. The bottom line is that there instructions were vague and not absolute; not clear.
Taking an idea from a similar post,
With this line of thinking, we didn't have to answer any of the questions.
-- Edited by Wingnut on Sunday 27th of October 2013 03:20:47 PM
This is pure nonsense. Sure, with every exam comes controversy and complaint, however THIS EXAM STANDS ALONE in atypical fashion. The entire exam is flawed in a multitude of aspects. To say SHOULD vs MUST is word semantics is correct, but isnt the entire test based on "word semantics" ? If you were to say the desk officer SHOULD make a Command Log entry each tour the member elects to safeguard his/her firearms, you'd be 100% wrong on test day and in the real world when your sitting in the trial room facing charges. The Patrol guide states, the desk officer MUST make a Command Log entry each tour the member elects to safeguard his/her firearms. DCAS clearly understand the difference between the two and to say we should have interpreted SHOULD as an absolute statement after studying tirelessley to recognized the and disfigush the difference between the two, is assanine. The bottom line is that there instructions were vague and not absolute; not clear.
Theres no agenda here and highly doubt i failed. I'm one of few who is not complaining about time. I actually finished my test with time to spare. So your assumptions are wrong and pointless. As I've stated before, this is about the cause. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. Despite knowing I'll be on this list because I know I passed (However, not sure of grade), I will not accept this foul play by DCAS to alter the path of many of our careers. I'd be a hypocrit and selfish to only care if I failed, I'm neither. Like I've stated in other posts, there no unity on this job, everyone is out for themselves. When I make Sgt. (On this list), I'll continue to be myself and encourage a unified department, not a divided one. Politics have altered the culture of this department and now DCAS is altering the our careers. When do we all stand together ?
Theres no agenda here and highly doubt i failed. I'm one of few who is not complaining about time. I actually finished my test with time to spare. So your assumptions are wrong and pointless. As I've stated before, this is about the cause. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. Despite knowing I'll be on this list because I know I passed (However, not sure of grade), I will not accept this foul play by DCAS to alter the path of many of our careers. I'd be a hypocrit and selfish to only care if I failed, I'm neither. Like I've stated in other posts, there no unity on this job, everyone is out for themselves. When I make Sgt. (On this list), I'll continue to be myself and encourage a unified department, not a divided one. Politics have altered the culture of this department and now DCAS is altering the our careers. When do we all stand together ?
I will agree with you on the unity part but this department nor the city benefit from us working united so will be very difficult for this to happen.
things in this department all happen by "merit" or because your liked so the nature of the game is to lie, cheat, and steal to get ahead and everyone will do it to advance only way to stop it is to change the way people progress in this department...
