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Post Info TOPIC: Ban together


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Ban together


10-4 on that Seamus. Once I saw that it was 130 questions, I budgeted my time accordingly. I got to finish, and double check my bubbles were filled in properly and transferred my answers. Mind you, I did have to rush, but I rather finish then leave answers blank. DCAS still messed up, but in a situation like that there is nothing left to do but adapt to it. I didn't take one break the whole six hours, I barely looked up. I was zoned into that test, but not taking a break and rushing I am sure hurt alot of us, even though we studied our ass off.

 



-- Edited by ManHands on Sunday 20th of October 2013 03:48:24 PM

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First off-- I did not take this test but I have friends that did and A LOT of my guys did. I watched them study and work so hard and I am so proud of them all-- THAT BEING SAID....

I THINK YOU ALL SHOULD BAN TOGETHER AND GET THE PBA OR A PRIVATE ATTORNEY TO SUE DCAS AND START A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT! YOU SHOULD BOMBARD THE PBA Monday with calls and see if they can help you OR put you in the right direction.

At 100 questions for 6 hours that gives you 16.6 questions an hour. THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU AT LEAST 1.5 HOURS TO 2 HOURS OF EXTRA TIME!!!!

That is unfair and it's sets a new precedence FOR ALL FUTURE TESTS!

The test should be thrown out-- there is no way to keep it. What about the person who didn't finish because they "waisted their time" on DCAS' BS questions? You can't discount them. They may have finished had it not been for the BS questions!

People have waisted 6 months of time and engery-- let's also not discount all the emotions-- and inconvenience it causes to ENTIRE FAMILIES when you put yourself out to study! If you have kids or a family you totally understand that point.

I'm beyond disgusted for my friends and my guys.

I hope you all think it over. There is strength in numbers.

Hats off to all of you. It's hard to put yourself out to do this. I wish you all the best.



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I studied my ass off and I am pissed. Maybe they should curve the test, but throw it out? What's that going to do? So we have to study all over again? For them to throw this this test and give out another one it will take a long time, meaning we have to study all over again, were not going to retain all that. That's not a good idea. That will just screw us over even more, especially the people that busted their ass studying...because if you did bust your ass studying, more than likely you still passed. The amount of time given was horrible, but the questions were fair. They should curve this test, because ALOT of people did not finish, definetely not throw it out.

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Honestly, I don't know what the right answer is. I just know I watched a lot of people I care about get sucker punched from DCAS and I'm VERY annoyed for all of them.

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Throw it out???? no fking way. I studied my ASS off for this test, and definitely passed it. Should they give more time? ABSOLUTLEY. But, if you really did study your ass off, you were given two weeks notice that there would be extra questions and should have budgeted your time accordingly. Nobody knew HOW the extra questions would appear, but you knew they would be there. Even if you somehow missed the notice from DCAS, it CLEARLY stated on the booklet that was sitting in front of you for a half hour that the extra questions would be randomly mixed in throughout the test. Everyone knew they had six hours to get through 130 questions.



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They will not throw it out. The guys that passed would file a mega lawsuit, and rightfully so. They busted their asses studying and passed and now you will throw out the whole exam? Has not happened and will not happen. I don't have an answer on what to do with the people that failed it and that didn't finish in time though. Adding an extra 30 questions and not giving extra time is grounds for a lawsuit in my opinion, but what would the result of the lawsuit be if they won?

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Then they should be forced to figure out a way to grade the test fairly. I don't know about a curve because you will always have the one or two people who will get everything or close to everything right-- BUT--

Just because you score well on a test does not make you a good boss. You should meet some of my peers. I would cringe if I had to work for them.

Fair. That's all I'm saying. Find a way to make it fair. Fair for the cops taking it now and fair for people taking future tests. This test with extra questions and no extra time is actually is actually a very big deal for anybody who still has promotional tests to take.

Sets a bad precendence for all around. Now and in the future.

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Agreed. The only way I could see them throwing a test out is if certain people gained a certain advantage somehow. EVERYONE had to answer the same questions in six hours.

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Throw it out???? no fking way. I studied my ASS off for this test, and definitely passed it. Should they give more time? ABSOLUTLEY. But, if you really did study your ass off, you were given two weeks notice that there would be extra questions and should have budgeted your time accordingly. Nobody knew HOW the extra questions would appear, but you knew they would be there. Even if you somehow missed the notice from DCAS, it CLEARLY stated on the booklet that was sitting in front of you for a half hour that the extra questions would be randomly mixed in throughout the test. Everyone knew they had six hours to get through 130 questions.


You mean the test booklet that was in front of me for 1 minute before the test started.


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I don't know how that is actually possible, because they give out the books on the first bell, and the test starts on the second bell. There is approximately 15 minutes between bells. But, even if it was one minute, didn't you scan the booklets before you started to make sure you had all of your pages?



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The test is not being thrown out LOL.  There will be no legit lawsuit.  You all took the same test and had the same advantages and disadvantages. I'm sure all of you guys that hit the books hard did fine.



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The thing that bugs me the most isn't that the test was that much longer. The problem I have is that when we come on here and share answer keys and come up with a consensus on the answers, it is usually VERY accurate. 2011 test I didn't study for I used the combined answer keys posted here and ended up with a 68. In the end DCAS sent me the postcard with a 69.

This time around, there are 30 questions that don't count. Basic statistics suggests that it shouldn't make that big a deal, but 130 is a very small sample size, and being outside a standard deviation will be a huge difference in your Rising Star Message Board Score and your DCAS score..

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could be very true wingnut, but if you got under 35 wrong with the comparable, you are looking pretty good.

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This test sets bad precedence. It basically says-- we can give a test-- add extra questions-- not tell you which ones count and which ones don't-- not give you any extra time-- basically suck it we can do what we want-- we're DCAS.

I don't want sh!t like this on the next test I take. I hope they do find a way to make it fair. Give extra time, change the grading system, label the questions, make them "opional"-- maybe for extra points-- Do something.

This test in my opinion (and I know we all have one)
Was poorly executed by DCAS. They should be held responsible and try to set a system in place that will make it fair for all who have taken the test. This test, was not given fairly. Change the test-- change the rules.

Again, just my opinion.



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STOP COMPLAINING, YOUR BEST BET IS TO ALL GET ONE GREAT ATTORNEY AND START A LAWSUIT.

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seamus wrote:

Throw it out???? no fking way. I studied my ASS off for this test, and definitely passed it. Should they give more time? ABSOLUTLEY. But, if you really did study your ass off, you were given two weeks notice that there would be extra questions and should have budgeted your time accordingly. Nobody knew HOW the extra questions would appear, but you knew they would be there. Even if you somehow missed the notice from DCAS, it CLEARLY stated on the booklet that was sitting in front of you for a half hour that the extra questions would be randomly mixed in throughout the test. Everyone knew they had six hours to get through 130 questions.


 WOW GREAT CAMARADERIE ON YOUR END.....



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Nothing to do with Camaraderie. Everyone I know who busted their ass studying for this test, passed it. You think its fair to want to throw out a test because some people didn't read the directions?



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natou wrote:
seamus wrote:

Throw it out???? no fking way. I studied my ASS off for this test, and definitely passed it. Should they give more time? ABSOLUTLEY. But, if you really did study your ass off, you were given two weeks notice that there would be extra questions and should have budgeted your time accordingly. Nobody knew HOW the extra questions would appear, but you knew they would be there. Even if you somehow missed the notice from DCAS, it CLEARLY stated on the booklet that was sitting in front of you for a half hour that the extra questions would be randomly mixed in throughout the test. Everyone knew they had six hours to get through 130 questions.


 WOW GREAT CAMARADERIE ON YOUR END.....


 Nat, I completely understand your point of view in regards to every other aspect of this job, but these promotional tests are selfish and cut throat, as they should be.  Every cop that did better than me will have a better vacation pick, and will get promoted before me.  If someone gave away up to 30 points because they stopped at #100, they were incredibly foolish and didn't read the cover of the test booklet.

On the other hand, I feel terribly for the folks that honestly couldn't get through the 130 in six hours.  I am a VERY fast test taker and it took me over five hours to do it, and I was one of the first cops to leave the classroom.  But everyone opened that book at the same exact time, and should have budgeted their time accordingly.  That alone, is a major test of the quality of supervisor.



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It seems the majority if not all of the complaints are about the amount of questions and the time allotted but not necessarily about the questions themselves. Is this accurate? Aside from the number of questions, were the questions themselves pretty fair and relevant?

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Yes, everyone I have spoken to thought it was a fair test outside of the time allotted.



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I thought the test was completely fair. Many ground balls, many others that were tricky. A couple 'you gotta be effin kidding me' type nitpicking questions. I don't want to get into specific question material content just yet.

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First off @narcoinmyheart shut up. Secondly shut up and third shut up. You're asking people to go to the PBA to get a lawyer for a test that if successful in passing, people would leave their Union. Why would they help out. There will be no lawsuit, it will not be thrown out, some will pass some will fail, the department has a desired number of who they want to pass and they will adjust the throw outs accordingly, it is out of your hands so stop worrying. If you studied, you should pass, the rest is nonsense. Now get back to your familys and some Sunday football.

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Wingnut wrote:

natou wrote:
seamus wrote:

Throw it out???? no fking way. I studied my ASS off for this test, and definitely passed it. Should they give more time? ABSOLUTLEY. But, if you really did study your ass off, you were given two weeks notice that there would be extra questions and should have budgeted your time accordingly. Nobody knew HOW the extra questions would appear, but you knew they would be there. Even if you somehow missed the notice from DCAS, it CLEARLY stated on the booklet that was sitting in front of you for a half hour that the extra questions would be randomly mixed in throughout the test. Everyone knew they had six hours to get through 130 questions.


 WOW GREAT CAMARADERIE ON YOUR END.....


 Nat, I completely understand your point of view in regards to every other aspect of this job, but these promotional tests are selfish and cut throat, as they should be.  Every cop that did better than me will have a better vacation pick, and will get promoted before me.  If someone gave away up to 30 points because they stopped at #100, they were incredibly foolish and didn't read the cover of the test booklet.

On the other hand, I feel terribly for the folks that honestly couldn't get through the 130 in six hours.  I am a VERY fast test taker and it took me over five hours to do it, and I was one of the first cops to leave the classroom.  But everyone opened that book at the same exact time, and should have budgeted their time accordingly.  That alone, is a major test of the quality of supervisor.





No, that alone IS NOT A MAJOR TEST OF THE QUALITY OF A SUPERVISOR. Our job is different than almost every other profession. Im disappointed to read that. Some of the GREATEST Cops and Detectives on this job would be awesome supervisors but would not do well on a promotional test. NOT BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE POOR LEADERS but because they are poor test takers -- and some of the highest bosses on our job-- are horrible leaders-- but are great test takers.

I hope you pass the test & do well. I also hope one day when you are a Sergeant you will see that the measure of a supervisor is NOT about taking tests. It's about the ability to make good decisions and sticking with them, admitting when you're wrong and correcting your mistakes, managing your officers fairly, getting done whatever it is that YOUR supervisor wants done in a reasonable way, and most important-- understanding that YOUR COPS have lives-- and their lives as well as their families are directly affected by your decisions.

Sadly, this cannot be tested.

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I was talking about time management, not answering multiple choice questions.

The test itself is a joke and I've seen and known great guys who have led over a hundred men in the military and couldn't pass this stupid test.

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InsideGuy wrote:

First off @narcoinmyheart shut up. Secondly shut up and third shut up. You're asking people to go to the PBA to get a lawyer for a test that if successful in passing, people would leave their Union. Why would they help out. There will be no lawsuit, it will not be thrown out, some will pass some will fail, the department has a desired number of who they want to pass and they will adjust the throw outs accordingly, it is out of your hands so stop worrying. If you studied, you should pass, the rest is nonsense. Now get back to your familys and some Sunday football.





Passed the test a long time ago kid. Disappointed for my guys is all.

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RookieScum4Life wrote:

 Aside from the number of questions, were the questions themselves pretty fair and relevant?


 "Other than that, Ms. Lincoln, how was the play?"



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bigfoot45 wrote:

The test is not being thrown out LOL.  There will be no legit lawsuit.  You all took the same test and had the same advantages and disadvantages. I'm sure all of you guys that hit the books hard did fine.


 and this here is they key - you ALL took the same test - as unfair as it was, it was unfair to all



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Legit arguments to me are the lack of extra time and the fact that how do you determine which questions do not count? Why does the jury duty questions for example count but the Edp question is out because it was only there for "research" purposes. Why am I penalized for not knowing one but equally do not get credit for what I did know?

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For 6 MONTHS, Ive took time away from my family to study and cut back on overtime and for what. TO BE USED AS A F***** LAB RAT FOR DCAS.  Since I can remember, DCAS has stuck with the same format of giving 100 test questions, with 6 hours to answer them. WHY CHANGE SH** NOW!!!!!  OK.You wanted to use us at lab rats, fine.. Then give us MORE TIME TO ANSWER NON IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT WILL NOT COUNT TOWARDS MY SCORE. The admission notice stated we would have additional questions, but no where did it mention anything about there being 30 questions and they would be THROUGHOUT the booklet!!!!!!!!!! This exam is challenging enough, now you allow us to focus on questions that will not count towards our score and take time away from the ones that do.  I think this is BULLSH*** and UNFAIR. We cant allow the city to get away with this one. We must come together and fight this.PBA DEA. Someone step in and help!!!!!!!!   Ive read comments about the changes are due to later test takers. Bull****. If DCAS is so worried about that, then come up with a different version of the exam for the later test takers.  



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Like someone else said, why would the PBA and/or DEA put something together to help current members leave the union?

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Sorry boys but every test people try this lawsuit thing it's a no go



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I suggest that, like mike Yanosik from the elite said, everyone should attend that protest session and see what you got. but also let them know how you felt about this test (the time frame given for an extra 30 questions) and focus on the duplicate question and any other test based questions that you guys can think of where you were on the fence with the answer. I have a few in my mind that should be thrown out as being too borderline with the answer choice they gave. If anyone can think of questions for us to formulate, PM me so we can go to Dcas with a list of unfair questions and hopefully get them thrown out. These promotional class teachers, from fast track to elite to rising star and the key, would have protested the questions they thought were too tricky or too misleading but since they were unable to take the test, the cannot be our voice. Mike Yanosik said everyone should try to attend, it's for our own benefit and the future of our careers

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Every test before, was 100 questions. This one had 30 extra questions, with no extra time. It's definitely a game changer.



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noooooo way through it out!! we have all spent hours in the library away from our families. i say curve it!!!


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All these years they have 6 hours for 100 questions which many people have went straight to the end.  30 questions is about 33% of the original test. They expect to give you a third more of the test crammed into the usual amount of time.  That averages about 2 hours for every 30 questions. They should have gave more time. I studied my ass off, But because of time I rushed through most of the last ones to get my answers in. Those were all lengthy detailed questions and if you missed one word that could cost you the question. By question 80 you just wanna stop reading because it's so much, but in this case when you got to 80 you had 50 more!  Ridiculous. I prob failed because of the time allowed. Keep it at 100, or at least keep the "research questions" separate. Ridiculous. Many people sacrificed a lot just to study and prepare just to get cut off at question 100-something and losing points right off the bat. 



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Effort or not it was a railroad. Many people did not finish.

It was roughly 2.5minutes per question. By the time you finished reading and dycephering the paragraph questions.. you had to read the long answers. Compared to a standard 100 q exam which gives you roughly 3.5 minutes each q.. probably less drawn out questions.



-- Edited by yougonow on Monday 21st of October 2013 02:04:40 PM



-- Edited by yougonow on Monday 21st of October 2013 02:05:29 PM



-- Edited by yougonow on Monday 21st of October 2013 02:09:36 PM

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Also with The rumors of the last 30 being the "research questions" should still have no baring because I know people that chose the in basket last and ran out time before doing it.  So basically they wasted at least an hour on meaningless questions and missed the ones that counted. although I'm semi-confident and put a lot of time and money into this, I feel it should be thrown out or extensively curved.  People were rushed, cheated out of time and you don't experiment with these things when it involved people's lives and career. This better be the first and last time they do this. 



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I like the curve the grade suggestion!

I finished my exam entirely, barely but I did it. Thankfully.

I think I barely passed.

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DCAS seems to be going the "WTF" route for promotional exams now. Look at the last Sgt and Lt exams. Whether it be a judgment-based exam with PAAs crying in the 124 Room, or a 130 question debacle with 30 random questions that have no bearing on your score at all... You'd better prepare for any and everything now it seems. Was talking to my bud whose taking the next Capt exam and we were discussing the same thing... He won't be shocked because he knows anything is possible. Also, don't do yourselves a disservice and make sure you thoroughly read all instructions prior to starting your exams now.

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We need a lawyer I believe any suggestions ban together any instructors/classes giving advice?



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We are all cops(all ranks), no such thing as a band together anymore!

I wish we could! We won't..

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Everyone saying the exam should be thrown out should seriously not comment. It's really frustrating to hear that. A lot of us sacrificed half a year studying for this exam, and whether it was fair or not, which it wasn't, if you studied your ass off you still passed.

This test should be curved if anything NOT THROWN OUT. If this test was so serious for you, you would have been prepared for the worst. You would have stopped and looked for those "extra questions". The first thing I did when I sat down is look at every piece of paper they gave me, looking for an indication of these "extra" questions. You already knew they were coming up with some BS!! You should have mentally been prepared to adjust to any situation at hand, which I already made up in my mind that it was going to be a disaster of a test, but that I will face it head on.

I read the cover of the booklet and saw 130 questions, and managed my time. Like I said before, I barely looked up. I didn't drink anything, didn't take a break. I kept my head burried in that test for 6 hours straight until I was done. Did I rush? Hell yeah, and I am sure it hurt me. But I still feel the amount of time I put into this test still showed and anyone who put 6 months of effort into this should feel the same.

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All the questions were PG questions what was research about it? Nothing. It's bull****, I'm not a fast test taker. I barely had 20 min to spare when I hit 100. I ended up with 112 many people didn't even got that far. So the guys that got to really finish are being IGNORANT about it. There should had been more time allotted or tells us which one don't count. And I would not had wasted my time on them. I have a 8 months daughter  I didnt even get  to spend that much time with her cuz I was studying. And to fail because I'm missing 18 questions that may count and that I may need. 



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http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcas.html

 

APPLEAL THE 30 Randomly mixed in "Survey Questions" -- letter to DCAS COMMISSIONER - Takes Less than 5 minutes.... Pass this link on to everyone you know who took the exam and actually cares about passing



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Should we remain anonymous when we file complaint with Dcas on their website? Also what did you complain about? The 30 extra questions and the misappropriation or lack of extra time to complete those stupid unknown survey questions?

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They're not throwing out the test or the 30 research questions.

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I'm not asking them to, I'm just voicing my opinion that this test was an abomination with the extra 30 questions and no extra time allotted for the first time in promotional exam history. I want them to produce the extra survey questions when we go to the protest session and explain to us how they will grade this exam accordingly.

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i just wrote to DCAS on that website posted by carman728:

To Whom it May Concern,
The 2013 NYPD sgt test#3539 was an unfair collaboration and abomination of a city promotional exam with 30 extra survey questions and the failure to allot extra time for those said questions. Our career is being tossed around like we are guinea pigs in a horrible lab experiment gone awry. Many of us studied for months, put our personal lives on hold, and paid in excess of a thousand dollars for promotional tutoring classes when we originally signed up for a 100 question test, which places a vast majority of us in a precarious situation of failing since many test takers did not even finish the entire exam unrighteously due in part to lack of time. As of now, there are too many variables factored in and the majority of the test takers expect an answer regarding these so-called survey questions. Will we be provided with their identity and purpose at the protest review and receive a breakdown of how they affect our test scores? We are entitled to an explanation of this unjust practice!

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Wingnut wrote:

Like someone else said, why would the PBA and/or DEA put something together to help current members leave the union?


 You may be right-- what about going to the SBA?

For example-- the 18 month rule-- back in 1994/1995 there were a bunch of cops who were in investigative tracks like Narcotics. They were told they would not be made Detectives-- even though they were doing the same work. They were told to sign waivers to stay in their details. Those who did not sign were sent back to their patrol commands. THE DEA SUED ON THEIR BEHALF! Now, there is the 18 month rule.

Maybe the SBA will help you. Can't hurt to inquire.

I don't think people realize how many people this actually affects. It's not only the people who failed-- For all the "passers" Let's just say John Smith passed the test-- Now let's pretend John Smith got an 80. Yay he passed-- but imagine the 30 questions were not there-- His 80 might have been an 85 or 90? Who knows. 

WHEN YOU GET PROMOTED YOUR LIST NUMBER IS IMPORTANT! IT WILL AFFECT (1) Your senority for THE REST OF YOUR Sgt CAREER (2) it also affects WHEN YOU HIT TOP PAY AS A SGT AND (3) Also, when you get promoted it affects how much money you make for that particular year. YOUR LIST NUMBER makes a difference of months to a years for how long you have to wait! Their salary is affected thus their pensions.

This test mess DCAS caused affects everybody who took your test-- and anybody taking a future test. It's plain as day.  

Good luck all.



-- Edited by narcoinmyheart on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 03:35:19 AM

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narcoinmyheart wrote:

"First off-- I did not take this test but I have friends that did and A LOT of my guys did."

"You should meet some of my peers. I would cringe if I had to work for them."


I THINK YOU ALL SHOULD BAN TOGETHER AND GET THE PBA OR A PRIVATE ATTORNEY TO SUE DCAS AND START A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT! 

That is unfair and it's sets a new precedence FOR ALL FUTURE TESTS!

The test should be thrown out-- there is no way to keep it. What about the person who didn't finish because they "waisted their time" on DCAS' BS questions? You can't discount them. They may have finished had it not been for the BS questions!

People have waisted 6 months of time and engery-- let's also not discount all the emotions-- and inconvenience it causes to ENTIRE FAMILIES when you put yourself out to study! If you have kids or a family you totally understand that point.

I'm beyond disgusted for my friends and my guys.

I hope you all think it over. There is strength in numbers.

Hats off to all of you. It's hard to put yourself out to do this. I wish you all the best.


 By saying "a lot of my guys did" and the "peers" comment I'm assuming you're promoted already. First off way to go bashing your peers. Second, and I hate to be the spelling and grammar police but seriously with these errors?

Title of thread "Ban Together"? Are we all getting banned? Perhaps you meant BAND together? 

"Precedence" is the condition of being considered more important than someone or something. Perhaps you meant PRECEDENT? which is an event or earlier action that is regarded as am example or guide. But you couldn't have meant precedent because you wrote "precedence" three times.

Then "What about the person who didn't finish because they waisted their time...People have waisted 6 months..." Waisted is a part of the body as in the waist. Wasted is used or expended carelessly.

 

Given your poor grasp of the English language I would cringe if you were my boss. Don't be so quick to criticize your peers.

 

 



-- Edited by ohnoes on Tuesday 22nd of October 2013 04:51:35 AM

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