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Post Info TOPIC: How is this test getting graded?


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RE: How is this test getting graded?


does this mean the 2011 is getting made. all 1600+. yahoooooooooooooo

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the whole thing really sucks. The proctor never gave us directions that we MUST answer all 130 questions. I/we were led to believe that the first 100 questions were gradeable and the "ADDITIONAL" 30 were for research. ADDITIONAL means extra, which in my book, is any question past number 100.. There's a difference between SHOULD answer all questions and MUST answer all questions. I took my time and paced myself during the test. There were no clocks in our room and the proctor never told us the approximation of how much time was left. I've taken tests  before and always finished with lots of spare time remaining. For this one, I took a little extra time on the in basket adjustments, i admit. When the final bell rang,I was so buried into the test but I was only up to question number 95.  How can they give us 30 additional gradeable questions without giving us extra time to complete those questions? They expect us to rush through the test without analyzing and eliminating bad choices? The DCAS expects us to suddenly go from answering an average of 17 questions per hour to answering an average of 22 questions per hour? I studied my ass off for this test and if the first 100 questions only counted, even though I only answered 95, I believe that I would pass. I'm very mad and upset about this. The proctor obviously didn't know what she was doing and we should have been told that we MUST answer ALL questions. Does anyone else feel bamboozled, like myself?



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If you read the cover of the booklet it CLEARLY stated that there were 130 questions with 30 "research" questions mixed in randomly throughout the test. I personally don't care that they put 30 extra questions in. My beef is that they add 30 % more questions to the test and do not give you any extra time to answer them.



-- Edited by seamus on Sunday 20th of October 2013 12:35:30 PM

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While I agree since there were an additional 30 questions we should have been given a little extra time the instructions were clearly explained on the book.  I would never count on a proctor to explain it to me.  I thought the instructions were pretty clear.  There were 30 additional questions that were randomly inserted into the test and you should answer all as if they count.  



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This test is way too much. I think I may of passed bc I felt like I knew a lot. Also at the same time I was kinda going fast but catching the stuff in the questions and knowing what to rule out. I am glad dcas used us as guinea pigs. I guess I will have to wait and see.

How about some of those proctors? We had a lady come in and tell us if we had the other half of the NOE on the desk she was going to fail us. Another one told me I had to sharpen one of my pencils before the test bc I wasn't allowed to do it during the test. (Had one break in my pocket) then I asked if I could eat and drink during the exam and she said no but I did anyway and she didn't say anything.

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Still said should be answered, not must.

 

Should could mean.. Hey if you want to play the game and participate, answer them, if you don't, no Biggy it was research anyway!.

 

Bittom line is I paid for a 100 question standard style exam, not for an experiment. You cannot just go and change a NOE AFTER you paid and all is well. I paid for 100 questions.



-- Edited by yougonow on Sunday 20th of October 2013 01:35:55 PM

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For the people who are pretty confident please PM your results instead of putting it up here. I'm driving myself crazy !! Lol


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The NOE (Notice of eligibility) email at the center of the controversy:

Dear Promotion to Sergeant (Police) Applicant:


This notice is to inform you that the Notice of Examination has been amended to add important information and instructions in THE TEST section.  

Below is the updated wording in THE TEST section:

THE TEST: You will be given a multiple-choice test in a paper and pencil format or at a computer terminal. You will be informed of the format on your admission notice. You must achieve at least 70.000 to pass the test. Ratings for seniority and, if applicable, departmental awards, and Veterans' Preference Credit will be added to the test scores of passing candidates to determine final ranking.

The multiple-choice test is designed to assess the extent to which candidates have certain technical knowledge and abilities determined to be important to the performance of the tasks of a Sergeant. Task areas to be tested are as follows: complete and/or review reports, forms and logs; make required notifications and other communications; interact with the community and implement programs; make adjustments to roll call and assign personnel during tour; monitor subordinates; assess local area and coordinate activities in the field; conduct preliminary searches/investigations; direct arrest and detention procedures; safeguard evidence and non-police department property; safeguard/inspect police department property (including station house and other police facilities); evaluate personnel and recommend actions (discipline, transfer, awards or discretionary assignments); and train and counsel subordinates.

The test may include questions which require mastery of technical knowledge based on such materials as: NYCPD Patrol Guide; Interim Orders; Legal Bureau Bulletins; New York State Penal Law and Criminal Procedure Law; Operations Orders; Family Court Act; Crime Complaint Reporting System Reference Guide; and Mayor's Executive Order No. 16 of 1978, as amended. Questions may address any of the following areas: services provided by other police units; messages received from the FINEST and SPRINT computer systems that affect procedures; 311 System; assistance services available to personnel; written narrative reports; response situations; patrol supervision; special patrol operations; disciplinary matters; and personnel matters, in effect up to and including July 1, 2013.

The test may also include questions requiring the use of any of the following abilities:

Written Communication - Clear expression of ideas in writing and use of good grammatical form.

Planning and Organizing - Establishing a course of action for self and/or others to accomplish a specific goal; planning proper assignment of personnel and appropriate allocation of resources.

Delegation - Utilizing subordinates effectively; allocating decision making and other responsibilities to the appropriate subordinates.

Management Control - Establishing procedures to monitor and/or regulate processes, tasks or activities of subordinates and job activities and responsibilities; taking action to monitor the results of delegated assignments or projects.

Organizational Sensitivity - Action that indicates an awareness of the impact and the implications of decisions on other components of the organization.

Sensitivity - Actions that indicate a consideration for the feelings and needs of others.

Analysis - Identifying problems, securing relevant information, relating data from different sources, and identifying possible causes of problems.

Judgment - Developing alternative courses of action and making decisions based on logical assumptions that reflect factual information.

Decisiveness - Readiness to make decisions, render judgments, take action, or commit oneself.

Work Standards - Setting high goals or standards of performance for self, subordinates, others, and organization. Dissatisfied with average performance.

Behavioral Flexibility - Modifying one's approach to most effectively meet the needs of the situation.

Technical Translation - Demonstrating knowledge of the meaning of technical/professional terminology used on the job.

Certain questions may need to be answered on the basis of documents or other information supplied to candidates on the date of the multiple-choice test.

confuse The multiple-choice test will contain additional questions which will be used for research purposes only. These questions will not count toward your test score and will not be included in the protest review process. However, you should answer all questions in the test booklet. bleh

Warning: You are not permitted to enter the test site with cellular phones, beepers, pagers, cameras, portable media players, or other electronic devices. Calculators are permitted; however, they must be hand-held, battery or solar powered, numeric only. Electronic devices with an alphabetic keyboard or with word processing or data recording capabilities such as planners, organizers, etc. are prohibited. If you use any of these devices in the building at any time before, during or after the test, your test score may be nullified, you may not receive your test results, and your application fee will not be refunded.

You must leave the test site once you finish the test. If you leave the test site after being fingerprinted but before finishing the test, you will not be permitted to re-enter. If you disregard this instruction and re-enter the test site, you may not receive your test results, your test score may be nullified, and your application fee will not be refunded.

You may view the complete Amended Notice of Examination for Promotion to Sergeant (Police), Exam No. 3539 at http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloads/pdf/noes/201303539000.pdf "



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Leggomygreggo wrote:

the whole thing really sucks. The proctor never gave us directions that we MUST answer all 130 questions. I/we were led to believe that the first 100 questions were gradeable and the "ADDITIONAL" 30 were for research. ADDITIONAL means extra, which in my book, is any question past number 100.. There's a difference between SHOULD answer all questions and MUST answer all questions. I took my time and paced myself during the test. There were no clocks in our room and the proctor never told us the approximation of how much time was left. I've taken tests  before and always finished with lots of spare time remaining. For this one, I took a little extra time on the in basket adjustments, i admit. When the final bell rang,I was so buried into the test but I was only up to question number 95.  How can they give us 30 additional gradeable questions without giving us extra time to complete those questions? They expect us to rush through the test without analyzing and eliminating bad choices? The DCAS expects us to suddenly go from answering an average of 17 questions per hour to answering an average of 22 questions per hour? I studied my ass off for this test and if the first 100 questions only counted, even though I only answered 95, I believe that I would pass. I'm very mad and upset about this. The proctor obviously didn't know what she was doing and we should have been told that we MUST answer ALL questions. Does anyone else feel bamboozled, like myself?


 If u didn't have a watch shame on you. How many times was that posted on this forum?



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VIPER6 jam up wrote:

source of mines said not all 1600 are getting made!


 A lot of "sources"  have changed their opinion after yesterday's test.  it has disaster written all over it for any sort of list that actually is worth wild from that test given, most likely going to be a very small list, based on how unfair it was. Usually tests like yesterday's do not translate to big lists.  No matter what the jobs original intention was with the 2011 list they still need to fill a certain amount of spots.  Those spots are assumed to be many in the next two years with hundreds of possible retirements and vacancies from promotions in the rank of Sergeant to Lieutenant which has at least 350 left on that list. The dept can't cut any thing if they don't have enough people to cover those things mentioned from a current possible list. At this point everything is just speculation and theory though.  Not that I ever thought the 2011 list had any issues to begin with. But we shall see. That test you were given was a real disgrace and you all have a right to be upset. 

 



-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 20th of October 2013 09:32:43 PM

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I see a lawsuit in the works...

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And I only had the test booklet in front of me for about one minute so I didn't even have time to read the paragraph about random questions being put into the entire test. some cops have said that they has the booklet in front of them for a half hour..maybe they had a chance to read it.... BJT I didn't ...throw out the last 30 questions ...



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You had the test booklet in front of you for 6 hours.  Just b/c the bell rang doesn't mean open it right up without reading instructions.  I think the only valid argument is not giving us additional time.  



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sumadre23 wrote:

You had the test booklet in front of you for 6 hours.  Just b/c the bell rang doesn't mean open it right up without reading instructions.  I think the only valid argument is not giving us additional time.  


 Completely agree.  Then again, we all knew as soon as the book opened that there were 130 and should have budgeted time accordingly.



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source of mines said not all 1600 are getting made!



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JustADispute wrote:

does this mean the 2011 is getting made. all 1600+. yahoooooooooooooo


 Sorry to tell you source of mines said not all 1600 are getting made!



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I know this is a hot topic on the 2011 test threads, but it's pretty simple math.

There are roughly 1600 names on the list.

They have gotten through roughly 850 in the 18 months since the list was formed in April of 2012.  That's 47.22 cops per month getting promoted.

At that rate, it'll be another 16 months until that list is completely finished.  That puts us at February 2015.

Would they really have a test in 2013 if they don't expect to use the list from it for another year and a half?

 



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Semp1 wrote:
VIPER6 jam up wrote:

source of mines said not all 1600 are getting made!


 A lot of "sources"  have changed their opinion after yesterday's test.  it has disaster written all over it for any sort of list that actually is worth wild from that test given, most likely going to be a very small list, based on how unfair it was. Usually tests like yesterday's do not translate to big lists.  No matter what the jobs original intention was with the 2011 list they still need to fill a certain amount of spots.  Those spots are assumed to be many in the next two years with hundreds of possible retirements and vacancies from promotions in the rank of Sergeant to Lieutenant which has at least 350 left on that list. The dept can't cut any thing if they don't have enough people to cover those things mentioned from a current possible list. At this point everything is just speculation and theory though.  Not that I ever thought the 2011 list had any issues to begin with. But we shall see. That test you were given was a real disgrace and you all have a right to be upset. 

 


 The job can cut whatever they want, they could just give another exam next year. In my career I can recall exams in early 2002, late 2003, early 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, fall 2011, and now fall 2013. Thats 8 exams in eleven years. The first two had hundreds of people die on the lists, where the next four had small lists that were not cut at all. The last two will be interesting.



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I suggest that, like mike Yanosik from the elite said, everyone should attend that protest session and see what you got. but also let them know how you felt about this test (the time frame given for an extra 30 questions) and focus on the duplicate question and any other test based questions that you guys can think of where you were on the fence with the answer. I have a few in my mind that should be thrown out as being too borderline with the answer choice they gave. If anyone can think of questions for us to formulate, PM me so we can go to Dcas with a list of unfair questions and hopefully get them thrown out. These promotional class teachers, from fast track to elite to rising star and the key, would have protested the questions they thought were too tricky or too misleading but since they were unable to take the test, the cannot be our voice. Mike Yanosik said everyone should try to attend, it's for our own benefit and the future of our careers

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Nay


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BoogieDownMarine wrote:

I see a lawsuit in the works...


 yea may be i  can get back my exam fee , after successful lawsuit .=(.



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That guy wrote:

NYPD can't get much right these days. How hard is it to give out a 100 question multiple choice test? Why try and get cute about it? Does FDNY do this crap for their promotional exams?


 nypd doesn't give the test...dcas does



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Over the years they ALWAYS gave 6 hours for 100 questions which is equivalent to 2 hours for every 30 questions. they can't shove 30 more questions in there with no additional time. Yes I finished the test but I felt rush because of the amount of questions and time. The questions were very wordy and If you read fast and missed a word that can cost you the question.  By the time you got to question 80 you wanted to stop because it was so much to read, normally it would only be 20 more but this time is was 50 more!  The rumors of the last 30 being the "research questions" should still have no baring because I know people that choose the in basket last and ran out time before doing it.  although I'm semi-confident and put a lot of time and money into this, I feel it should be thrown out or extensively curved.  People were rushed, cheated out of time and you don't experiment with these things when it involved people's lives and career. This better be the first and last time they do this. 



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www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcas.html

APPEAL THE 30 Randomly mixed in "Survey Questions" -- letter to DCAS COMMISSIONER - Takes Less than 5 minutes.... Pass this link on to everyone you know who took the exam and actually cares about passing

i just personally wrote to DCAS on that website in the message posted above by carman728 and I encourage everyone to voice your opinion since not all of you will attend the protest review session like myself:

To Whom it May Concern,
The 2013 NYPD sgt test#3539 was an unfair collaboration and abomination of a city promotional exam with 30 extra survey questions and the failure to allot extra time for those said questions. Our career is being tossed around like we are guinea pigs in a horrible lab experiment gone awry. Many of us studied for months, put our personal lives on hold, and paid in excess of a thousand dollars for promotional tutoring classes when we originally signed up for a 100 question test, which places a vast majority of us in a precarious situation of failing since many test takers did not even finish the entire exam unrighteously due in part to lack of time. As of now, there are too many variables factored in and the majority of the test takers expect an answer regarding these so-called survey questions. Will we be provided with their identity and purpose at the protest review and receive a breakdown of how they affect our test scores? We are entitled to an explanation of this unjust practice!


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