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PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

RE: whats the chances of this list being cut

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

I am just sharing historical information on past Sgt's exam which as I have read through many boards, has been lacking. You are right, I have no insight that this list will be cut. But I honestly don't know how long it took to establish the 2009 list, anyone OTA remember?

2002- took 6 months to establish a list
2003- took 15 months to establish a list (lawsuit did hold it up and 2002 list was cut short)
2006- took 10 months to establish a list
2007- took 12 months to establish a list
2008- took 8 months to establish a list
2009- I don't recall? Anyone OTA know?
2011- took 6 months to establish a list
2013-???

If this exam is coming in summer of 2013, then it will be in all likelihood early 2014. Unless you think they will really promote 1200+ more people in 14 months? I am not trying to scare people, just if you are at the bottom few hundred of this current list, it would be in your best interest to get up for the 2013 exam, bc historically the job does not promote 1600+ people on a Sgt's exam, just doesn't happen...

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

It took 20 months? Wow. Well then there is hope for this list, but with the announcement of this new exam so soon, its better to be safe than sorry. I think 1663 people would set a new precedent I have yet to see in my career...

Semp1 · Guru

It was given in Feb 09. The list was established a few months later, and activated around Oct 2010. The city held 09 promotions until the 08 list was done. They have not cut lists since passing grades were implemented. Lists might die but they still go the 4 year duration since this implementation (06 Lieutenant test) The last BMOC class for the 2008 list, which exhausted that list, was combined with 2009's first BMOC class. These are the only lists that should be brought up for reference in what the city will do if another test is offered in Aug/Sep 2013, because they're the only one's where two concurrent lists were established while one was activated, since a passing grade has been implemented. All signs point to the list presently activated being completely made. These conversations really need to end.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 01:29:02 PM

Semp1 · Guru

But we have dealt with lists as big that people have been promoted off of. When it comes to any more reassurance what more do people need. Even Brat said there is no way they're cutting this list. So some now her info is good enough to know classes some times 15 days in advance down to the head count but not whether or not a list will be cut? Ridiculous.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 01:30:21 PM

Semp1 · Guru

I'm sorry but i believe that's slightly inaccurate. Almost every sgt list that did not have a passing grade implemented, got to promotions in the 60's, and at the very least made it into the very low 70 range. also I believe only one since 2000 was cut short with higher than normal grades. On top of the fact that your longevity points were added with whatever grade you got. So if you had 10 years on and got a 65 your score was almost a 72. Comparing that embarrassing system of promotions does not even compare to the lists presently out. Some one with a passing grade now got at least a raw score of a 70 back before 2006 where some one with a 70 could have gotten a 63. A little more understandable why lists were cut. Those people were still failing grades.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 02:23:42 PM

Semp1 · Guru

I would never not take another exam if there were hundreds left. You always need to back your bet up. In that regards I agree with you. Not because I think the list will be cut but simply for piece of mind, and it really can not hurt, the extra knowledge will only contribute to the LT exam in the future. All pass overs become eligible in July.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 02:37:43 PM

Semp1 · Guru

BTW the 2003 list were the first 1600. Also 100% sure about that.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 04:03:46 PM

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 07:23:11 PM

Semp1 · Guru

You are right it did get cut in the 1,200s with low 60s. I wrote it wrong. I fixed it.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 07:22:50 PM

40RectorSt · Veteran Member

Well at this point only time will tell, but in my opinion the 2011 Sgts list will not be axed and everyone on the list should be made. Especially since the speed of the promotions. This potential 2013 Sgt test is not definite who knows if it will be given or not.

-- Edited by 40RectorSt on Thursday 25th of October 2012 07:39:25 PM

New2this · Senior Member

So everyone is talking about the list being cut and that it has been done in the past. Well I don't know much about previous lists but can someone inform me on what lists have been cut since the implementation of the passing score of 70. Also, don't include lists that have been cut due to the list expiring.

fedup · Senior Member

Semp1 you are saying the 09 test was given in Feb 09 or announced in 09? Also was the list established October of 2010 or is that when they started to promote off the list?

Doggieloverwoof · Guru

fedup wrote:
Semp1 you are saying the 09 test was given in Feb 09 or announced in 09? Also was the list established October of 2010 or is that when they started to promote off the list?

The 09 test was given Feb 09

sgt2be · Guru

Semp1 wrote:
It was given in Feb 09. The list was established a few months later, and activated in Oct 2010. The city held 09 promotions until the 08 list was done. They have not cut lists since passing grades were implemented. Lists might die but they still go the 4 year duration. The last BMOC class for the 2008 list, which exhausted that list, was combined with 2009's first BMOC class. These are the only lists that should be brought up for reference in what the city will do if another test is offered in Aug/Sep 2013, because they're the only one's where two concurrent lists were established while one was activated, since a passing grade has been implemented. All signs point to the list presently activated being completely made. These conversations really need to end.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 01:22:10 PM

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 01:23:25 PM

i do agree with you sir. But one point that must be taken with a grain of salt is that we NEVER dealt with a passing grade test and had 1600 + ppl pass. This test will certainly tell us in the future whether a big list test will promote everyone or if the city will actually cut a list in favor or promoting those with higher grades.

40RectorSt · Veteran Member

Semp1 wrote:
But we have dealt with lists as big that people have been promoted off of. When it comes to any more reassurance what more do people need. Even Brat said there is no way they're cutting this list. So some now her info is good enough to know classes some times 15 days in advance down to the head count but not whether or not a list will be cut? Ridiculous.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 25th of October 2012 01:30:21 PM

Good point

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

I am just saying if you are in the bottom few hundred on the 2011 exam, you would do yourself a big disservice not to get up for the summer 2013 exam. You guys are right in that we may be dealing with uncharted territory since the 70 passing mandate, no list of any kind was cut prior to the 4 year expiration in any rank. But outside of the 2006 Lt exam, none were large lists.

Also traditionally they make entire Lt exams, but that was when DCAS picked a random passing score based on how many people they needed and how many people would make a list. Sgt exams it was always quite common to kill lists when they were large and sometimes the "passing" score was set well into the 70's and if you didn't get in the 80's, you weren't getting made. The 2003 Sgt exam 58's made the bottom of the 1700+ name list and they got into the high 60's or list number sin the 1100's before they axed that one and responded to low scores by setting a 70 passing mandate.

Sgt's exam used to be given every couple of years or since the 70 passing it was given every year! 2011 was odd that they waited 3 years, that was a really long time. 2000,2002,2003- 2 1/2 year lapse, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009. Pretty frequent and people died on the large lists in 2000, 2002, 2003.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Semp1, the 2003 and 2002 lists, that was true, before that, nope. The the 70 raw score was a reaction to this, but the 2003 list got into the 60's even AFTER they added points. DCAS would pick a random score based on how big a list they were going for.

Raw scores in the 2003 exam got as low as 58 and 2002 got into the the 60's. Before that, exams often died with people who scored over a 70 raw score. But to be fair the last exam of the 90's it was either in 98 or 99, not sure, it was given when I was in the academy, scores were really good and everyone got made. The 2000 exam scores were really good and not everyone got made.

Sgt's exam were cut short and that was common, Lt exams were rarely cut short and up until this year when the Lt exam expired, I cannot remember another time when everyone on a Lt exam did not get promoted? You can ask around your commands about old Sgt's exams, hundreds of people would die on every one of them. Hasn't happened since 2006 though.

Anyway take historical info and make your own judgement, if you are close to be promoted anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about this stuff. But for a few hundred people, this old info might be very relevant and might even be telling what could and might happen to the 2011 exam list.

Semp1 · Guru

The 2001 list promoted in the very low 70's. I'm 100% sure. Again a low 71 on that list was a 64. It's a little different by comparison.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Well Semp1, I don't know what your list # is, but if you are in the bottom few hundred, I would get up for this exam or you are doing yourself a major disservice. Also when do the last 3 year wonders become eligible for promotion and hit 5 years? Why do I ask that? They have to keep the list alive long enough to at least promote them or they could have a legit lawsuit, bc they were allowed to take the exam and were passed over, they have to get backfilled in.

I am guessing this current list will be done one way or another by 2014. Either killed off or exhausted, replaced by 2013 exam list.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Well Semp1, good luck and I really am not hoping they cut the 2011 list and I am also not wishing the debacle of the 2011 Lt exam on anyone planning on taking it, that exam was completely unfair and inconsistent with any exam I have ever heard of in my career.

I felt so well prepared going in to score well into the 90's and they threw like close to 30 opinion questions at us from a police management book written in the 1970's that they didn't tell any of us to read to prepare! Very unfair! I still scored in the top 10% of people who made the list, but that test was BS and reading the PG 100x's couldn't have prepared me for a lot of nonsense...

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Well you are wrong, I know bc I was in the 1200's and I did not get promoted on the 2003 list

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Semp1, let me correct you. The December 2003 exam was established in early 2005 with over 1700+ names. They got well into the 1100's and the final scores were in the high 60's. I know all about that exam bc I took it and died on the list by a miniscule margin...

Semp1 · Guru

May is a little crazy. I think by May 2014 they'll be at around 1300's. this list will be done by jan 2015.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Friday 26th of October 2012 08:34:53 PM

Su Madre 24 · Guru

I am in the 920-930 range. I have mentally prepared myself for October-November of 2013. I think thats a fair guesstimation.

-- Edited by Su Madre 24 on Saturday 27th of October 2012 06:00:44 PM

spartan85 · Senior Member

This list will e exhausted by may 2014 and the 2013 exam will be activated.... Probably. I don't see why not since the hiring rate is going so fast..

TurdBurglar · Senior Member

Spartan, I think thats a bit too optimistic, even if the current rate of promotions continues. How did you come up with that date?

CryTwoSeven · Guru

I think he probably meant 2015

Doggieloverwoof · Guru

Su Madre 24 wrote:
I am in the 920-930 range. I have mentally prepared myself for October-November of 2012. I think thats a fair guesstimation.

U mean 2013

Semp1 · Guru

Going to be way ahead of that by then. I'm
Guessing 1100 range.

Su Madre 24 · Guru

Doggieloverwoof wrote:
Su Madre 24 wrote:
I am in the 920-930 range. I have mentally prepared myself for October-November of 2012. I think thats a fair guesstimation.

U mean 2013

Sorry...yes I meant 2013. You are correct

Cfgl1888 · Senior Member

At the end of the day, all this prognosticating is pointless because no one knows what they are going to do, there is precedent for killing the list and for keeping it open. If you still haven't been made and they give another test, IMO you'd be stupid not to take it, but at the end of the day each person is going to make their own decision and fretting about it a year or more in advance is not going to do any good, especially as, like I said, there is no person on here that can give you an answer.

EDAYKING · Senior Member

The list will not get cut,,,,,,, chill out,,,,,,

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

A lot of you guys are soooo certain the list won't get cut. If they give exams frequently enough like they have through most of my career, then cutting big lists is common practice. I was a little surprised that there was such a long lapse in exams from feb 2009 to oct 2011. If they give an exam every couple of years on average, why wouldn't they cut a huge list? They almost always have.

EDAYKING · Senior Member

No one really knows for sure.

Semp1 · Guru

Because cutting huge lists that had failures on it including people who failed but then passed back then with longevity added is completely different. And once again I will remind you the 2009 list was held almost 18 months after establishment before they activated it. Solely to promote the whole 08 list. And that is really the only thing you can compare what the dept does based on concurrent lists since passing grades were established. This is growing tiresome it's sad that people come on here solely to enforce their opinionated bad news. Who cares.

EDAYKING · Senior Member

Good Point Bro.....

Iwearpumas · Senior Member

Semp1 wrote:
Going to be way ahead of that by then. I'm
Guessing 1100 range.

I agree with Semp.

CIWarrior · Senior Member

The only person that is above the rank of PO or even newly promoted Sgt that I care to listen to is Brat. Anyone else should stay on the forum designated to their rank or rank soon to be. I'm tired of persons of higher rank trying to dishearten the future Sgt's of this forum. Everyone on this list with the exception of MAJOR jam ups will get promoted! Brat said it herself, enough said!

EDAYKING · Senior Member

I'm co-signing with that one.....

Semp1 · Guru

I agree.

Warden2Sgt · Veteran Member

June 8, 2013 and the possible rammifications.

LOLO · Senior Member

Around what number will the 2011 Sgt list will be Cut.

KFCisKING · Member

Here is my take on this matter:
I predict that 600 names are attainable for every year this exam remains alive and that is including down months. At the present course by Jan 2014 there should be about 1200 newly minted sgts. At the same time the list for June 2013 exam should be established by Dec 2013 thus creating a conundrum of epic proportions. There will be two list established at the same time with about a year's worth of candidates left on the old list remaining to be made. It is of my belief that those candidates of the latter exam will be cut and left to fend for themselves in favor of a much fresher list.
This is my point of view, folks and sadly I am not the only one who feels this way..

LOLO, you are absolutely positively WRONG! The 4 year rule is not written in stone so stop using that as your lynchpin. Please do some research before you make yourself look foolish.

-- Edited by KFCisKING on Saturday 1st of December 2012 06:51:40 PM

skellbox · Veteran Member

RE: June 8, 2013 and the possible rammifications.

AhouseRocker · Senior Member

Around what number will the 2011 Sgt list will be Cut.

Cfgl1888 · Senior Member

RE: June 8, 2013 and the possible rammifications.

Lu515 · Senior Member

Around what number will the 2011 Sgt list will be Cut.

New2this · Senior Member

Right before your list #

Zookeeper6 · Veteran Member

It's not getting cut relax

OnTheeArm · Veteran Member

If you really assume that a June Sgt Exam establishing a list by Jan 2013 does not mean that the 2011 Sgt Exam will be cut then you are a "RETARD". If everyone was going to get made off the 2011 test then why have an exam in June of 2013? The writing is on the wall and some of you yokels refuse to read between the lines. Just ask anyone who was cut off the last Lt's exam. Those who are 1200 and above should be taking this next exam.

If you did the math all those who fall at 1200 and above ranged in the mid to low 70's. If you were a company would you rather have the creme of the crop off a new exam or the day old sour pusses who barely passed. Before you answer this question need I remind you that the current mayor is a business man intent on running this city like a company.

NEED I SAY MORE?