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HabidasheryAuto · Senior Member

RE: POWER IN #'S TO PROTEST THE MORE PEOPLE THAT PROTEST THE SAME QUESTION THE BETTER.

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

Okee what are you saying the answer was? I put 0 supplements but I don't know what number it was so I have no idea if I got it right

unborn · Guru

The correct answer for whatever reason was 1.

HabidasheryAuto · Senior Member

If thats the case they must be saying a biohazard isnt a hazmat placard. Which by federal standards is. Prob another case of the test writers trying to be cute and blew up in their faces. Douchebags.

okeedokee · Veteran Member

HabidasheryAuto wrote:
If thats the case they must be saying a biohazard isnt a hazmat placard. Which by federal standards is. Prob another case of the test writers trying to be cute and blew up in their faces. Douchebags.

That's why people should refer to the NHTSA in their protest and demonstrate the actual placard.

NYG37 · Senior Member

I did protest question 5 which was ECB summons. the calendar did have both days labeled as 8.

Gripes4Stripes · Veteran Member

NYG37 wrote:
Im not gonna discourage you from fighting #18, but new i.o states that you obtain permission from immediate supervisor or borough court section.

-- Edited by NYG37 on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:53:55 AM

but it also states word for word that subsequent strip searches will not be done unless theres reasonable suspicion that the perp acquired new contraband (or something). i looked it up afterwards on the day of the test. double answer!

oneadditional · Guru

Thank you so much NYG37. People are saying its not protestable and I don't know why. The calendar has 2 8's and it has a shot.

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

oneadditional wrote:
Thank you so much NYG37. People are saying its not protestable and I don't know why. The calendar has 2 8's and it has a shot.

I'm def gonna try. I dropped it too

Mes018 · Senior Member

Gripes4Stripes wrote:
NYG37 wrote:
Im not gonna discourage you from fighting #18, but new i.o states that you obtain permission from immediate supervisor or borough court section.

-- Edited by NYG37 on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:53:55 AM

but it also states word for word that subsequent strip searches will not be done unless theres reasonable suspicion that the perp acquired new contraband (or something). i looked it up afterwards on the day of the test. double answer!

I got it wrong too but the wording is actually reasonable belief. Not the same thing. Reasonable belief equals probable cause.

-- Edited by Mes018 on Thursday 1st of December 2011 03:23:30 AM

oneadditional · Guru

If you count 21 days from a calendar that says 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 8 9 10 and still land on the correct answer as would when you add 21 to 8 on a calculator then something is wrong with you. We can get this question tossed !! Stop saying this question is a given because it's not, they screwed up big time.

Gripes4Stripes · Veteran Member

Mes018 wrote:
Gripes4Stripes wrote:

NYG37 wrote:
Im not gonna discourage you from fighting #18, but new i.o states that you obtain permission from immediate supervisor or borough court section.

-- Edited by NYG37 on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:53:55 AM

but it also states word for word that subsequent strip searches will not be done unless theres reasonable suspicion that the perp acquired new contraband (or something). i looked it up afterwards on the day of the test. double answer!

I got it wrong to but the wording is actually reasonable belief. Not the same thing. Reasonable belief equals probable cause.

dammit. now i don't remember the exact wording. i was so confident about it too. hmm did you already go to the protest today? cry

okeedokee · Veteran Member

Gripes4Stripes wrote:
Mes018 wrote:
Gripes4Stripes wrote:

NYG37 wrote:
Im not gonna discourage you from fighting #18, but new i.o states that you obtain permission from immediate supervisor or borough court section.

-- Edited by NYG37 on Thursday 24th of November 2011 01:53:55 AM

but it also states word for word that subsequent strip searches will not be done unless theres reasonable suspicion that the perp acquired new contraband (or something). i looked it up afterwards on the day of the test. double answer!

I got it wrong to but the wording is actually reasonable belief. Not the same thing. Reasonable belief equals probable cause.
dammit. now i don't remember the exact wording. i was so confident about it too. did you already go to the protest today?

Yes. That question is a lost cause.

oneadditional · Guru

What number was that ?

Gripes4Stripes · Veteran Member

one additional- #18

area1 · Veteran Member

i just got back from my protests. this is what i protested

i protested # 77 i think this is going to be another throw out, the xo will be away for a couple of days and the presintation is in one week. how crazy is that , but they still say to stay past your tour and review the statistics. the xo never told him to stay , . i never meant to protest this one but my god. it is now one of the craziest, i wrote up 2 pages about how they can justify this as a good judgment, and aslo refered to PG. .. i really think this one may have a chance. if anyone want to protest this one i have a very good memory of it ..wink wink. pm me. even for other Q. PM me.

#20 the cell phone snatch. they said as per PG 207-52 in the stem of the question, "Complaints involving cell phones" NO SUCH think as 207-52 typo. i hope it works, they meant to say IO 52-of 09. lol , may have a chance.

#89.... you know that one..

#64

#63

#47

#21

#100 like everyone else.

18and1 · Senior Member

No in basket protest?

area1 · Veteran Member

18and1 wrote:
No in basket protest?

no, i know a lot of guys are, so i wanted to concentrate on a few others and review the test again and try to remember Q's and mail some out.

big guy · Senior Member

did anyone actually see mike yanosik at the protest, if so was he helpful??

HB · Senior Member

big guy wrote:
did anyone actually see mike yanosik at the protest, if so was he helpful??

Seeing him at the protest is like spotting a real life bigfoot. Very unlikely!

oneadditional · Guru

Yes at the Occupy Wall Street protest

smartcookie · Senior Member

I went to the protest today, but was only able to get there for 3 hours. I protested 6 questions: 4, 20, 23, 89, 93, 100. I would have done more but I ran out of time. furious

Gripes4Stripes · Veteran Member

big guy wrote:
did anyone actually see mike yanosik at the protest, if so was he helpful??

george m from key was there

nycop80 · Guru

question 10 and 13 are highly protestable. In question 10 you had to pick the group of 3 cops who would get an eday. IF you followed in basket correctly, you would have been arrived at an answer which gave PO Williamson off. Now, in question 13 you need to select a po to go to the hospital for prisoner relief. If i remember correctly, one guy was limited, and 2 were not there. This left Williamson as an answer. However, how is this possible, when you just approved Williamson to get an eday in question 10. They will probably have to throw both of these questions out or do something with them. Definite protest. This is why many people got either question 10 or 13 wrong. IF you followed how to do an in basket properly there is no way to get those questions both correct.

lieutenantwannabe · Newbie

Folks please protest the cell phone question, I think it was question 20 or 26 because in the stem of the question it said according to PG procedure 207-52 when it should have said Interim order 52. @07-52 does not exist

area1 · Veteran Member

lieutenantwannabe wrote:
Folks please protest the cell phone question, I think it was question 20 or 26 because in the stem of the question it said according to PG procedure 207-52 when it should have said Interim order 52. @07-52 does not exist

yes, i am very sure the question is # 20 very easy to protest. itwas a typo on their part. just make a copy of 207 index attach it

no such section as 207-52 send it in

oneadditional · Guru

What was #63 and #64 ?

nycop80 · Guru

63 was pins. Throw out

area1 · Veteran Member

oneadditional wrote:
What was #63 and #64 ?

63 was pins 64 i dont remeber now i will find out for you

oneadditional · Guru

64 was the missing and thanks

s7g3t · Member

Greetings to all. I am not sure if this will help, but I spent some time working on the protests, attended the DCAS protest session on 11/30/11 in Brooklyn, reviewed the test, spoke to M. Yanosek from (former) Fast Track, who was in protesting the test in the same room as me etc...You are absolutely right, there is power in numbers, especially when we are dealing with a poorly-written, subjective abomination, known as the 2011 Lt's test. Here are some "protest-hints" (hope they may help):

# 62 (for those who took the test 10/29/11) is a defective question: the stem of the question addresses an illegal eviction situation, it introduces 2 UMOS- yourself, who is a 2nd plt commander, and your driver-PO Martin. No other UMOS are mentioned in the question at all. All 4 answer choices, however, refer to an actor named "PO Omar". It is impossible to determine what action by this actor would be the best/ most correct one, since no information is provided regarding this actor- whether he is present at the scene, his duty status, assignment etc. Therefore, question # 62 has no correct aswer.

# 63 is based on PG 215-08 I.O.16 and addresses the topic ofwhenthe Arrest Report Supplement needs to be prepared for PINS. It provides 4 choices (intoxicated 16 years old juvenile PINS, 16 years old juvenile PINS found in the house of prostitution, 16 years old juvenile PINS who is stranded, 16 years old PINS who is a runaway).The question askes when would the Arrest Report Supplement not be prepared. The question is written based on the test-writer's incorrect reading of this procedure. Arrest Report Supplement is prepared for PINS who is 16 or 17 years old, as per 215-08 I.O.16. No other "qualifiers" are provided or required for that. All 4 answer choices refer to a list that follows the statement in 215-08 I.O. 16 re: preparation of Arrest Report Supplement for PINS who are 16 or 17 y.o. (runaway juvenile, stranded juvenile, intoxicated juvenile, juvenile under 16 years of age found in a house of prostitution etc); however that list is not related to the 16 or 17 y.o. PINS. Its just a continuation of a list of situatuations when Juvenile Report needs to be prepared. Indeed, note re: preparing Arrest Report Supplement for 16 or 17 y.o. PINS follows step c). of that list. Furthermore, all 4 answer choices refer to a "16 years old juvenile'. According to P.G. 215-08 I.O.16 juvenile is over 7 but less then 16 years of age.therefore, question # 63hasno correct answer (or depending on one's reading of it, all 4 answer choices are equally correct.)

#89 is the much-disputed "E-day question". the answer proposed on the DCAS answer key puts the actor, "Lt Holland" in direct violation of P.G.203-03 point 2 that states "obey lawful arders and instructions of supervising officers". he "no excusals for the next 6 tours' Finest msg is a lawful order issued by someone who outranks the actor in the question, "Lt Holland", since such Finest msgs are usually sent by the authority of the Chief of Department. On the other hand, answer choice C (asking the UMOS requestiong the e-day if another member of his family is avaliable to provide care for his child), provides an option of handling the situation in a constructive manner; assisting the UMOS in finding other options to get care for his child, while not putting the actor in the stem of the question in violation of P.G.

#100 deals with a situation when the actor (administrative supervisor of some kind) has to get a highly important report prepared in an accurate and expeditious manner. the proposed answer choice involves this actor authorizing overtime. This answer is in direct violation of P.G.205-17 definition point a), that stated that non-ordered overtime is not authorized for administrative duties on any level. It is also in violation of point b). of definition -same procedure, that states that ordered overtime can only be authorized by PC, 1st Dep. Comm or Chief of Dept.

Good luck with your protest, everyone!

s7g3t · Member

I just realized that I sent in my last posting without doing spell-check first. I am very sorry for all the typos. Hope my posting was still possible to read and that it was somewhat helpful.

area1 · Veteran Member

#77 THROW OUT.

This is a judgment question.

Stem. : --The XO tell you the LT. that accidents with injuries are up. And the he will need you to review a package for him because he has a presentation in one week from now. He also tells you that he will be away for the next couple of days. What is the most effective action for you to take?

The choices where

A. You go sick on the day of the presentation,

B. I dont remember exactly, but it was way off. NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE

C. Stay past your tour to review the package

D. You brief the platoon @ Roll call to boost up summonses on hazardous violations.

I think this is going to be another throw out, the xo will be away for a couple of days and the presentation is in one week. How crazy is that, but they still say to stay past your tour and review the statistics. The xo never told him to stay,. That means you will authorize your own admin. OT. And that is against dept. procedures. I wrote up 2 pages about how they can justify this as a good judgment, and also referred to PG. section 205-17. Admin ot is a can only be authorized by the BIG three. PC, First Dep, or Chief of Dept. Make a copy, highlight it , attach it and mail it out. If you got this wrong this is an easy point.

This what the rising star wrote on judgment questions:

Use some of the wording

Dear Rising Star Students:

We waited to send this e-mail in an effort to let some of the dust settle and emotions cool down a bit. We, just like many of you, are up-in-arms over this lieutenant exam - not so much by the content, but rather the quantity of material that DCAS did not properly notify you on. We, too, sat for the exam and while we realize it was different from other exams, we were not at all surprised they did this - we saw it coming from the 2010 captain exam and the fact that DCAS recinded the original Notice of Examination (NOE) and issued a new one which indicated this "subjective" material. Based on those two facts, we had a suspicion this exam would include the judgment & leadership questions and we therefore covered it for you in our Week # 9 Lesson. However, we did not think it would take up 25% of the questions!

While Rising Star covered that "subjective stuff" in Week # 9's Lesson, we still wonder; how they (DCAS) can defend a protest on those questions. Unless they have a body of literature to point to for the correct answer, it is SUBJECTIVE. And if they do have something in writing to point to, they should have provided it within the NOE to properly prepare you. In their updated NOE, although DCAS informed you of the new material that may appear on your exam, they were negligent by not informing you of the reference for where that subject matter will come from. In other words, they tell you that Department directives and orders will be tested and will come from such references as the Department Patrol Guide Manual, Administrative Guide, Operations Orders, etc. They therefore should have informed you as to where the reference for the leadership/judgment questions was derived so that you could prepare. By not doing so, they might as well have told you in the NOE that you may be tested on human anatomy, botanical chemistry, and NASA rocket launching procedures - without giving you the body of literature from where the questions are drawn, how can you possibly prepare?

We sat for the exam and we submitted our request to attend the protest - we will assist Rising Star students in protesting part of this exam. If you mail in a protest and would like us to review it first, email it to us. We hope to see some of you at the protest, and as always, if you have any questions feel free to email us at: info@risingstarpromotion.com . You should all collectively and passionately protest the FACT that DCAS' action were negligent, arbitrary and capricious by not informing you of the reference(s) for where the testable subject matter came from - especially in light of the fact that they have consitently provided the bodies of literature where the questions are drawn from on prior examinations!

Regarding the actual post-protest process, this is from DCAS website:

"After the protest period is over, a Test Validation Board (TVB) consisting of representatives of the employing agency(ies), bargaining unit (i.e., union) and DCAS, Bureau of Examinations is convened to review all protests. The TVB is empowered by Section 50-A of the New York State Civil Service Law, to change key answers, allow duplicate or multiple answers, or delete items from the test. After all protests are reviewed, the TVB prepares a report detailing its findings. After the eligible list has been established, all candidates who submitted protests will be called in to read the TVB Reports. The determinations made by the TVB are binding. Therefore, no further changes will be entertained."

Most importantly, hang in there, be patient, and lets see what the protests and list brings - hopefully it turns out that you all made it.

Thank you all again for trusting Rising Star Promotions with your study needs and GOOD LUCK!

Tony & Eddie

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

area1 wrote:
#77 THROW OUT.
This is a judgment question.
Stem. : --The XO tell you the LT. that accidents with injuries are up. And the he will need you to review a package for him because he has a presentation in one week from now. He also tells you that he will be away for the next couple of days. What is the most effective action for you to take?
The choices where
A.    You go sick on the day of the presentation,
B.     I dont remember exactly, but it was way off. NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE
C.     Stay past your tour to review the package
D.    You brief the platoon @ Roll call to boost up summonses on hazardous violations.
I think this is going to be another throw out, the xo will be away for a couple of days and the presentation is in one week. How crazy is that, but they still say to stay past your tour and review the statistics. The xo never told him to stay,. That means you will authorize your own admin. OT. And that is against dept. procedures. I wrote up 2 pages about how they can justify this as a good judgment, and also referred to PG. section 205-17. Admin ot is a can only be authorized by the BIG three. PC, First Dep, or Chief of Dept. Make a copy, highlight it , attach it and mail it out. If you got this wrong this is an easy point.
This what the rising star wrote on judgment questions:
Use some of the wording

Dear Rising Star Students:

We waited to send this e-mail in an effort to let some of the dust settle and emotions cool down a bit. We, just like many of you, are up-in-arms over this lieutenant exam - not so much by the content, but rather the quantity of material that DCAS did not properly notify you on. We, too, sat for the exam and while we realize it was different from other exams, we were not at all surprised they did this - we saw it coming from the 2010 captain exam and the fact that DCAS recinded the original Notice of Examination (NOE) and issued a new one which indicated this "subjective" material. Based on those two facts, we had a suspicion this exam would include the judgment & leadership questions and we therefore covered it for you in our Week # 9 Lesson. However, we did not think it would take up 25% of the questions!

While Rising Star covered that "subjective stuff" in Week # 9's Lesson, we still wonder; how they (DCAS) can defend a protest on those questions. Unless they have a body of literature to point to for the correct answer, it is SUBJECTIVE. And if they do have something in writing to point to, they should have provided it within the NOE to properly prepare you. In their updated NOE, although DCAS informed you of the new material that may appear on your exam, they were negligent by not informing you of the reference for where that subject matter will come from. In other words, they tell you that Department directives and orders will be tested and will come from such references as the Department Patrol Guide Manual, Administrative Guide, Operations Orders, etc. They therefore should have informed you as to where the reference for the leadership/judgment questions was derived so that you could prepare. By not doing so, they might as well have told you in the NOE that you may be tested on human anatomy, botanical chemistry, and NASA rocket launching procedures - without giving you the body of literature from where the questions are drawn, how can you possibly prepare?

We sat for the exam and we submitted our request to attend the protest - we will assist Rising Star students in protesting part of this exam. If you mail in a protest and would like us to review it first, email it to us. We hope to see some of you at the protest, and as always, if you have any questions feel free to email us at: info@risingstarpromotion.com . You should all collectively and passionately protest the FACT that DCAS' action were negligent, arbitrary and capricious by not informing you of the reference(s) for where the testable subject matter came from - especially in light of the fact that they have consitently provided the bodies of literature where the questions are drawn from on prior examinations!

Regarding the actual post-protest process, this is from DCAS website:

"After the protest period is over, a Test Validation Board (TVB) consisting of representatives of the employing agency(ies), bargaining unit (i.e., union) and DCAS, Bureau of Examinations is convened to review all protests. The TVB is empowered by Section 50-A of the New York State Civil Service Law, to change key answers, allow duplicate or multiple answers, or delete items from the test. After all protests are reviewed, the TVB prepares a report detailing its findings. After the eligible list has been established, all candidates who submitted protests will be called in to read the TVB Reports. The determinations made by the TVB are binding. Therefore, no further changes will be entertained."

Most importantly, hang in there, be patient, and lets see what the protests and list brings - hopefully it turns out that you all made it.

Thank you all again for trusting Rising Star Promotions with your study needs and GOOD LUCK!
Tony & Eddie

The way this reads from DCAS one can lose points???

area1 · Veteran Member

Rising, I"m not sure what you mean. What do you mean one can loss points?

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

After the protest period is over, a Test Validation Board (TVB) consisting of representatives of the employing agency(ies), bargaining unit (i.e., union) and DCAS, Bureau of Examinations is convened to review all protests. The TVB is empowered by Section 50-A of the New York State Civil Service Law, to change key answers, allow duplicate or multiple answers, or delete items from the test. After all protests are reviewed, the TVB prepares a report detailing its findings. After the eligible list has been established, all candidates who submitted protests will be called in to read the TVB Reports. The determinations made by the TVB are binding. Therefore, no further changes will be entertained."

_______________________________________________________

From reading this is sounds like they can change an answer from right to wrong

Waaaahhh · Veteran Member

If they change an answer it would then mean they are changing it from wrong to right.

area1 · Veteran Member

RISING IDIOT wrote:
After the protest period is over, a Test Validation Board (TVB) consisting of representatives of the employing agency(ies), bargaining unit (i.e., union) and DCAS, Bureau of Examinations is convened to review all protests. The TVB is empowered by Section 50-A of the New York State Civil Service Law, to change key answers, allow duplicate or multiple answers, or delete items from the test. After all protests are reviewed, the TVB prepares a report detailing its findings. After the eligible list has been established, all candidates who submitted protests will be called in to read the TVB Reports. The determinations made by the TVB are binding. Therefore, no further changes will be entertained."
_______________________________________________________
From reading this is sounds like they can change an answer from right to wrong

Yes I Guess your right, but i dont think i would hurt you if you got it right in the first place. We will

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

Waaaahhh wrote:
If they change an answer it would then mean they are changing it from wrong to right.

What I mean is, the way this reads, if you got a 70 right now, they can change an answer and you will end up with a 69

nycop80 · Guru

Choice B was to do checkpoints I actually pIcked that choice. But this should be a throw out because again the answer was you staying past your tour authorizing yourself to do admin OT a clear violation of 205-17

area1 · Veteran Member

I think a total throw out may hurt someone who got it right, but what they've done in the past is make ABCD all right. in the Capt. test thats what they did. they did not throw out any, but they made ABCD right ans. for 5 questions and 10 as double answers. this may sound corny, but i really don't want to see anyone hurt, I just want to make it. LOL.

area1 · Veteran Member

nycop80 wrote:
Choice B was to do checkpoints I actually pIcked that choice. But this should be a throw out because again the answer was you staying past your tour authorizing yourself to do admin OT a clear violation of 205-17

I don't think you will get hurt by it nycop. but i will gain a point. 5 is my magic #.

RISING IDIOT · Senior Member

"delete items from the test" would be a throw out. "changing key answers" would be changing an answer on the key from a to d. Guess we'll just have to wait and see