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OkeeDokee · Veteran Member

RE: MASTER KEY

BimpGod · Veteran Member

Maybe it is old, this is the bronx, everything is outdated.

They are both class A misd, it would be determined by degree. Petit larceny doesnt have one, ID theft is 3. I am assuming it would be classified as ID theft then?

Tiger · Senior Member

HAZMAT ONE...IN THE PROCEDURE IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE A BOMB..STEP 7 IT SAYS PATROL SUPERVISOR..NOTIFY COMMUNICATIONS TO NOTIFY OPERATIONS TO DISPATCH THE BOMB SQUAD.

nickie323 · Veteran Member

The answer to the id theft question is not in the big chart. We got played on this test the answer is petit larceny and if u r not familiar with the crime complaint guide then u were screwed. Impossible to know that unless u do
Compstat

BimpGod · Veteran Member

Tiger wrote:
HAZMAT ONE...IN THE PROCEDURE IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE A BOMB..STEP 7 IT SAYS PATROL SUPERVISOR..NOTIFY COMMUNICATIONS TO NOTIFY OPERATIONS TO DISPATCH THE BOMB SQUAD.

I agree brother, but I think they actually tried to go with common sense lol

If you think about it, since it was not a bomb or anything specific, it would be more correct in my eyes to establish a CP first, then wait to find out the deal before notifying Bomb Squad.

Either way, it should be a double answer because like most of these questions, they tried to get too tricky and were vague. Hopefully we both get the point.

nickie323 · Veteran Member

It had to be over 500 dollars to be ID theft and if im correct i believe it was 485

OkeeDokee · Veteran Member

BimpGod wrote:
Maybe it is old, this is the bronx, everything is outdated.
They are both class A misd, it would be determined by degree. Petit larceny doesnt have one, ID theft is 3. I am assuming it would be classified as ID theft then?

It's not unreasonable to think that, but I cut & pasted from the crime classification guide.

oneadditional · Guru

Of the 3 math questions ( questions 70 to 73 i believe ) the first one I guessed but the second 2 questions I did a bit of math and 2 squads were tied in numbers in both the second and third question so I chose 2 squads for both choices. Did anyone else come out with that ?

BimpGod · Veteran Member

The first and 3rd I think were more straight forward. The 2nd one really screwed me up. Had 3 squads with 8,9,10 officers. Each had 15 days patrol for 3 months asking for something like most productive? It was vague.

I didnt know if they meant per squad overall , or per cop per tour for each squad. I just added all the summonses up, multiplied each cop by 15 tours, and divided. I got some weird answers. I think I went too far into it, but I had no idea what they were asking exactly. I think I calculated how many summonses each cop from each squad wrote per tour lol

Dying06Lt · Veteran Member

-- Edited by Dying06Lt on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 09:11:14 PM

wereinbacklog · Guru

BimpGod wrote:
The first and 3rd I think were more straight forward. The 2nd one really screwed me up. Had 3 squads with 8,9,10 officers. Each had 15 days patrol for 3 months asking for something like most productive? It was vague.

I didnt know if they meant per squad overall , or per cop per tour for each squad. I just added all the summonses up, multiplied each cop by 15 tours, and divided. I got some weird answers. I think I went too far into it, but I had no idea what they were asking exactly. I think I calculated how many summonses each cop from each squad wrote per tour lol

I think they meant per cop. The way I tackled that problem was to divide the total number of summonses per each squad by the the number of cops per squad. For example if All 3 squads issued 100 summonses each for the 3 month period but B1 had 7 officers B2 8 officers and B3 9 officers than B1 was more productive because they issued the same amount of summonses with less officers.

-- Edited by wereinbacklog on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 09:26:08 PM

-- Edited by wereinbacklog on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 09:26:43 PM

wereinbacklog · Guru

The first math problem with the percentage increase in accidents and decrease in summonses you had to utilize the answer choices that were given and choose the one that matched the percentages in the question. I believe one choice had 16 accidents in August and 21 Accidents in September therefore the calculation was (21-16)/16 multiplied by 100%. If that percentage was d same stated in the question that was your answer.

oneadditional · Guru

I let them have the first one but what did you get for the other 2 ?

wereinbacklog · Guru

oneadditional wrote:
I let them have the first one but what did you get for the other 2 ?

From which set cause there were 4 math questions? One set with 3 questions regarding squads B1 B2 B3 summonse activity.

infinity · Senior Member

The squad questions was all filler all you had to do was add the 3 months and see who had more. They never asked which squad had the most productive police officers. It asked which squad produces the most activity.

oneadditional · Guru

The last set regarding the summons activity

wereinbacklog · Guru

infinity wrote:
The squad questions was all filler all you had to do was add the 3 months and see who had more. They never asked which squad had the most productive police officers. It asked which squad produces the most activity.

It asked which squad was the most productive. That's the reason why they gave u the number of cops in each squad. The fast-track went over the same exact questions during their last inbasket.

-- Edited by wereinbacklog on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 09:53:01 PM

wereinbacklog · Guru

oneadditional wrote:
The last set regarding the summons activity

The last two questions were squad B3 as being the most productive.

Whatwasthat · Veteran Member

how sure are you.........and do you remember how you came to those answers....

-- Edited by Whatwasthat on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 09:59:06 PM

oneadditional · Guru

I got something like B1 and B3 for both choices. I was actually surprised when I did my math and saw that 2 squads were equal in averages and when I looked at the choices B1 and B3 together was a choice so thats what I picked. Im not sure if its right thats why I want to see if anyone else got what I got

Dying06Lt · Veteran Member

wereinbacklog wrote:
oneadditional wrote:
The last set regarding the summons activity
The last two questions were squad B3 as being the most productive.

Got the same answer

Whatwasthat · Veteran Member

i was plugging in all types of numbers......really dont remember.....some did match other squads.......but forgot how the answers went......sorry

oneadditional · Guru

Maybe your definition of productive is different from mine. This test is a mess.

wereinbacklog · Guru

Whatwasthat wrote:
how sure are you.........and do you remember how you came to those questions???

I'm 1000% sure lol. The first question in that set was a straight compstat formula (New Month - Old Month divided by Old Month multiplied by 100%). Don't remember which squad gave me the highest percentage increase. The second question was a straight tally of the 3 months of summonses divided by the number of cops in the squad therefore producing a squad that per cop gave more summonses than the other 2. The third question u had to use the answer in question #2 and find out how that increased/decreased from the previous year of 2010 (remember they gave u the summonses total and number of officers for d year 2010). So if question number 2 had B1 issuing 32 summonses per squad and then they told u that in september 2010 they issued 84 summonses with 4 officers than you had to divide d 84 by 4= 21 and use the compstat formula to derive the increase or decrease (32-21 divided by 21 multiplied by 100%).

infinity · Senior Member

If that's what they were asking you try would have to list individual cops with activity. You have no idea that each cop wrote the same amount of summons.

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly · Member

I agree that the number of squad members was all filler. The question asked which Squad was most prodcutive. How can you assume that every member of the squad writes the same number of summons or the average. Simply dividing the number of summonses by the number of police officers would not tell you how productive the squad is. This goes back to what I posted early in this topic, the difference between efficency and productivity.

Whatwasthat · Veteran Member

so 1st question was b1 and b3 and the other two were b3 for both???? i hope not cause i dont remember those being my choices

wereinbacklog · Guru

infinity wrote:
If that's what they were asking you try would have to list individual cops with activity. You have no idea that each cop wrote the same amount of summons.

Doesn't matter whether they produce equally or not they just wanted to know which was more productive in activity.

infinity · Senior Member

So your saying if if squad 1 wrote 500 with 500 cops they were less productive then squad 2 who wrote 10 summons with 5 guys?

wereinbacklog · Guru

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly wrote:
I agree that the number of squad members was all filler. The question asked which Squad was most prodcutive. How can you assume that every member of the squad writes the same number of summons or the average. Simply dividing the number of summonses by the number of police officers would not tell you how productive the squad is. This goes back to what I posted early in this topic, the difference between efficency and productivity.

Honestly, if you have 2 squads one issues 32 summonses with 2 cops and the other issues 33 summonses with 10 cops which one is more productive? Why else would they include d number of cops per squad in their question on both of them?

E D · Senior Member

I don't think it was as simple as which squad wrote the most, how can you compare a squad of 10 with a squad of 8?? I multiplied cops by tours and divided by the # of summonses.

wereinbacklog · Guru

infinity wrote:
So your saying if if squad 1 wrote 500 with 500 cops they were less productive then squad 2 who wrote 10 summons with 5 guys?

Correct, they weren't asking u which one gave more summonses they were asking which was more productive. Again, that's why they included d number of cops in there question.

Whatwasthat · Veteran Member

do you guys remember what question numbers they were?

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly · Member

So when you submit your activity every month to the CO do you tell him the total number of summonses you wrote or the average number per cop?

wereinbacklog · Guru

Whatwasthat wrote:
do you guys remember what question numbers they were?

Someone at work said numbers 69-71 but I honestly don't remember.

infinity · Senior Member

The question didn't ask which squad had the most productive cops.

wereinbacklog · Guru

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly wrote:
So when you submit your activity every month to the CO do you tell him the total number of summonses you wrote or the average number per cop?

Again the number of summonses in this question didn't mean much. Obviously if u have more cops in a squad compare to another they should issue more summonses at the end of the month. The question was asking which was more productive meaning what squad did d most activity with d amount of cops they had.

wereinbacklog · Guru

infinity wrote:
The question didn't ask which squad had the most productive cops.

Okay folks, no need to beat a dead horse. Just ask urself the reason why they gave u the number of cops in each squad in both questions.

infinity · Senior Member

That is a total number. Nothing in the question asked about individuality. It asks as a group

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly · Member

Doing more with less is the definition or efficiency not productivity. This job uses produtivity in the same way that I am a describing. Look at a compstat sheet when they list the total arrests for the year and ther percentage in change. Nowhere included in that breakdown do they include the number or arrests relative to the number of personnel assigned.

Whatwasthat · Veteran Member

no the number of cops in the squad did not matter....at least to me

wereinbacklog · Guru

infinity wrote:
That is a total number. Nothing in the question asked about individuality. It asks as a group

Do you really believe that those math questions were as simple as just adding 3 numbers 2gether? They included d number of cops per squad for a reason and they even told u that they each had d same amount of days to do so (15 days).

wereinbacklog · Guru

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly wrote:
Doing more with less is the definition or efficiency not productivity. This job uses produtivity in the same way that I am a describing. Look at a compstat sheet when they list the total arrests for the year and ther percentage in change. Nowhere included in that breakdown do they include the number or arrests relative to the number of personnel assigned.

Understandable but this wasn't a compstat question but u did have to utilized d same formula.

infinity · Senior Member

Yes I do. Just like in compstat questions when they ask which had a larger decrease robbery or burglary and don't mention percentage. Subtract and there's your answer. I also love how you find it completely out of the realm on this test that those questions couldn't have been that easy with all the important information they gave you

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly · Member

I agree it wasn't a compstat question, I was trying to point out that when it comes to measuring the productivity of units in the NYPD, the job looks at the total result achieved, they do not take in to account the number of personnel attempting to achieve that goal. It is the same thing as "paying the rent" If the performance objective is 20 summons a month and you are off for half the month does that mean that you are only supposed to do 10 summonses? If you come in at 15 clearly you were working at a faster pace then you would during a full month but you still failed to achieve the prodcitivy goal of 20.

wereinbacklog · Guru

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly wrote:
I agree it wasn't a compstat question, I was trying to point out that when it comes to measuring the productivity of units in the NYPD, the job looks at the total result achieved, they do not take in to account the number of personnel attempting to achieve that goal. It is the same thing as "paying the rent" If the performance objective is 20 summons a month and you are off for half the month does that mean that you are only supposed to do 10 summonses? If you come in at 15 clearly you were working at a faster pace then you would during a full month but you still failed to achieve the prodcitivy goal of 20.

I totally understand ur point but like I previously mentioned they asked which sergeant should be commended for having d most productive squad not in terms of total summonses but which supervisor did more with less. Again, the reason why they gave u guys d number of cops per squad. However, no reason to continue d debate let's wait for d answer key to come out.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

My head is starting to hurt. Back to the original topic, anyone else want to post answer keys. Well I mean people that actually studied. I studied, but I still might have failed, but I already posted my answer key of the 12..

oneadditional · Guru

The number of guys in each sqaud did matter and I used that number getting that number and I'm going to stick to the answer I got. They specifically told you to factor in the number of guys in each squad. It was not as simple as using the compstat formulas.

wereinbacklog · Guru

oneadditional wrote:
The number of guys in each sqaud did matter and I used that number getting that number and I'm going to stick to the answer I got. They specifically told you to factor in the number of guys in each squad. It was not as simple as using the compstat formulas.

Lol lol

DepartmentCaughtActingStupidly · Member

wewereinbacklog, I conceede that they may have been looking for the answer that you got. However I don't see how they can exclude the answer I got. They way they worded the question makes my answer just as valid. Regarding the the Sgt to be commended I aslo kept the same philosophy because I don't believe that getting the average per squad is a very useful analysis. You could very easily have a squad that has a higher average because one person is pulling the weight while the other members of the squad are goofing off. Should that Sgt recieve commendation? Now that scenario is also possilbe doing it the way I did but in my way at least you have some objective measuring stick which is the total number of summonses. That is a real number that is verifiable, the average is not a real number, it is a derrived number that doesn't necessarily relate to what is actually going on in the squad.