It's not too late! Order your 2023 Lieutenant Exam "Just the Questions" for only $349 Visit www.RisingStarPromotion.com to order over 1400 questions specifically designed for maximum retention of the Patrol Guide--plus full-length exams!

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Day 1 vs Day 2 Exam Debacle


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1082
Date:
Day 1 vs Day 2 Exam Debacle


Hi Everyone, I dont really come on here anymore but Ive been getting so many messages asking for advice or my opinion on how this exam was administered and complaints about poorly written questions.  Ill give you my take on both and just a little history without going into too much detail. 

Day 1 vs Day 2

First thing we all need to understand is that the Department does not administer the exam. We wrote the questions but the fact that day 2 was administered either the same or close to the same (I still dont know for sure) exam as Day 1 was totally up to DCAS.  It really is head scratching that decision was made.  After the debacle of the 2015 Lt exam, which exposed cheating by alternate day test takers, fake religious exemptions, delayed promotions, required the hiring of 2 law firms and the assistance of Corp Council, you would think DCAS would look to ensure anything like that would never happen again.  While I could write a book on the 2015 lt exam blunder, and talk about how DCAS should of administered the 2022 sgt exam, lets just take a look at solutions.  If there ends up being a significant difference (at least one full point) in the average score of a day 1 taker vs day 2, I believe every day 1 taker should get that point total added to their score.  I know, some of you are already saying Hey, what about those didnt get any hints at all that took it day 2? Thats not fair to Them Well, my response is Your right, however it is the most equitable solution at least in my head. The 2015 LT exam ended with hundreds of people being added to the list and some original passing test takers got jumped on the list. Perhaps the same thing will happen. Hopefully, DCAS will respond to a FOIL request and share the average score without legal intervention.  Again, Im hoping there wont be a major difference in the average score but if there is, Day 1 takers might elect to file a lawsuit and fight for those points maybe not.  There might not even be legal grounds for a fight, maybe there is. Im no expert on civil service law. Common sense and the law dont necessarily go hand and hand. 

Poorly Written Questions 

This happens every test.  Maybe this one was written worse than others. Best thing to do is attend the protest.  You need to provide evidence why your answer is better.  You can not simply write this question was confusing or incoherent. That wont fly. The schools can provide you with further assistance on how to successfully protest questions. Legal intervention will not help. Thats another lesson learned from 2015. The only questions that got tossed were ones with Subject matters not listed in the Notice of Examination. 

Final Thoughts

Its disheartening that DCAS has created a situation again that will cause undue stress and anxiety to many test takers and even worse, a divide and feeling of resentment between day 1 and day 2 takers.  Day 1 and Day 2 takers need to remember that neither party caused this predicament or any future legal battles, but this was caused by the incompetence of another city agency.  Try to stick together and take care of each other. Things will work out on in the end.  

Be Safe,

Bigfoot



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Sunday 7th of August 2022 07:33:43 PM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Online
Posts: 140
Date:

What happened with the 2017 sgts test ? Was that just a large curve ? The list more then doubled up

__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 30
Date:

HopeBoss wrote:

What happened with the 2017 sgts test ? Was that just a large curve ? The list more then doubled up


 The 2017 exam only 1,100  passed on test day and department wanted a list of at-least 2,000. 

As far as this exam is concerned I heard from multiple people that the overall majority of the exam was the same questions and the few that were different were still same procedure and remarkably similar answers. From what ive heard the Day 2 exam takers seem quite happy..



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Online
Posts: 140
Date:

Hennigans404 wrote:
HopeBoss wrote:

What happened with the 2017 sgts test ? Was that just a large curve ? The list more then doubled up


 The 2017 exam only 1,100  passed on test day and department wanted a list of at-least 2,000. 

As far as this exam is concerned I heard from multiple people that the overall majority of the exam was the same questions and the few that were different were still same procedure and remarkably similar answers. From what ive heard the Day 2 exam takers seem quite happy..


 Thats infuriating 



__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Date:

Well said. I agree that from what i heard the 2015 LT exam was a debacle, and the only the way they hear anything is a lawsuit (even with day 1 having a much lower avg than day 2). I think at the end of the day, some people committed highway robbery and capitalized. Some people on day two studied their ass off and passed. I took it day one, studied my ass off, clearly didn't study smart enough. I think in regards to the exam 2017, our saving grace is i doubt that they throw out 10 questions, and if the list is small I'm sure a new exam will be here in 2 years. So in 1.5 years we study again lol.

But with all these rumors it needs to stop. Sit back, wait to see if they throw out some questions after the protest if you failed, and hope for the best.

__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Your chance to make change...Let your voices be heard...

Share thoughts to the agency who is responsible.
Tag whoever you would like to make aware. i.e. The Mayor, City Hall, the Police Commissioner, News Outlets, etc.


DCAS Twitter:
https://twitter.com/nycdcas?s=11&t=1IMOuKwB5zknNLOW-3zMIQ


DCAS Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/nycdcas/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D


DCAS Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/NYCDCAS



__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 71
Date:

I have a legit question for everyone here. For those who were assigned the Day 1 morning session, did you register right away on March 2nd when it opened? I'm trying to get an idea if the scheduling went in order of registration. I registered right away on March 2nd and was in the Day 1 morning session, and from the limited amount of people I have spoken to, it does appear they went in registration order.

Also, if you happen to have any information that would disprove this theory, please share it (i.e. someone who you know registered AFTER you got an earlier exam than you)



-- Edited by countryroads on Monday 8th of August 2022 04:45:57 AM

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 168
Date:

I registered right away....day 1 AM exam

__________________
Ak


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 23
Date:

countryroads wrote:

I have a legit question for everyone here. For those who were assigned the Day 1 morning session, did you register right away on March 2nd when it opened? I'm trying to get an idea if the scheduling went in order of registration. I registered right away on March 2nd and was in the Day 1 morning session, and from the limited amount of people I have spoken to, it does appear they went in registration order.

Also, if you happen to have any information that would disprove this theory, please share it (i.e. someone who you know registered AFTER you got an earlier exam than you)



-- Edited by countryroads on Monday 8th of August 2022 04:45:57 AM


 I did. I wanted to get it out of the way . I wont ever make that mistake again!



__________________


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 98
Date:

bigfoot45 wrote:

Hi Everyone, I dont really come on here anymore but Ive been getting so many messages asking for advice or my opinion on how this exam was administered and complaints about poorly written questions.  Ill give you my take on both and just a little history without going into too much detail. 

Day 1 vs Day 2

First thing we all need to understand is that the Department does not administer the exam. We wrote the questions but the fact that day 2 was administered either the same or close to the same (I still dont know for sure) exam as Day 1 was totally up to DCAS.  It really is head scratching that decision was made.  After the debacle of the 2015 Lt exam, which exposed cheating by alternate day test takers, fake religious exemptions, delayed promotions, required the hiring of 2 law firms and the assistance of Corp Council, you would think DCAS would look to ensure anything like that would never happen again.  While I could write a book on the 2015 lt exam blunder, and talk about how DCAS should of administered the 2022 sgt exam, lets just take a look at solutions.  If there ends up being a significant difference (at least one full point) in the average score of a day 1 taker vs day 2, I believe every day 1 taker should get that point total added to their score.  I know, some of you are already saying Hey, what about those didnt get any hints at all that took it day 2? Thats not fair to Them Well, my response is Your right, however it is the most equitable solution at least in my head. The 2015 LT exam ended with hundreds of people being added to the list and some original passing test takers got jumped on the list. Perhaps the same thing will happen. Hopefully, DCAS will respond to a FOIL request and share the average score without legal intervention.  Again, Im hoping there wont be a major difference in the average score but if there is, Day 1 takers might elect to file a lawsuit and fight for those points maybe not.  There might not even be legal grounds for a fight, maybe there is. Im no expert on civil service law. Common sense and the law dont necessarily go hand and hand. 

Poorly Written Questions 

This happens every test.  Maybe this one was written worse than others. Best thing to do is attend the protest.  You need to provide evidence why your answer is better.  You can not simply write this question was confusing or incoherent. That wont fly. The schools can provide you with further assistance on how to successfully protest questions. Legal intervention will not help. Thats another lesson learned from 2015. The only questions that got tossed were ones with Subject matters not listed in the Notice of Examination. 

Final Thoughts

Its disheartening that DCAS has created a situation again that will cause undue stress and anxiety to many test takers and even worse, a divide and feeling of resentment between day 1 and day 2 takers.  Day 1 and Day 2 takers need to remember that neither party caused this predicament or any future legal battles, but this was caused by the incompetence of another city agency.  Try to stick together and take care of each other. Things will work out on in the end.  

Be Safe,

Bigfoot



-- Edited by bigfoot45 on Sunday 7th of August 2022 07:33:43 PM


 completely agree...also, this aint the first and wont be the last time dcas fucks up lol...just strap in, stay the course, and study harder



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 130
Date:

How come no one is blaming the Day 1 assholes who discussed the exam on these threads and helped the Day 2 ppl pass?????? You guys are all idiots. You studied so hard just to give the answers/questions away to other ppl and now you are mad that they got a higher score possibly. If no one would have talked about the exam, even if the exam was the same or similar, then Day 2 ppl would not have had any idea what was on the exam. Some of you should look in the mirror and blame yourselves.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1055
Date:

MBREEZE wrote:

How come no one is blaming the Day 1 assholes who discussed the exam on these threads and helped the Day 2 ppl pass?????? You guys are all idiots. You studied so hard just to give the answers/questions away to other ppl and now you are mad that they got a higher score possibly. If no one would have talked about the exam, even if the exam was the same or similar, then Day 2 ppl would not have had any idea what was on the exam. Some of you should look in the mirror and blame yourselves.


 And that is why this exam will stand as we did it to ourselves. There will be a few log numbers and the exam will move on as normal. 



-- Edited by brooklynbacon on Saturday 13th of August 2022 04:40:23 PM

__________________
GR5


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Date:

More than likely it wasnt the people studying hard every day. It was the people that didnt care or are losers in general that feel some kind of accomplishment by giving out the answers. Honestly, I dont fully blame day 2 people for looking. Being a cop sucks and for a lot of people like me this was some hope to get out of the shit. I am day 1 so I didnt have that opportunity but I cant say for certain that I wouldnt have looked at the info. Ultimately the fault lies with DCAS. The blaming Day X is just a distraction from the real enemy here.



__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 20
Date:

countryroads wrote:

I have a legit question for everyone here. For those who were assigned the Day 1 morning session, did you register right away on March 2nd when it opened? I'm trying to get an idea if the scheduling went in order of registration. I registered right away on March 2nd and was in the Day 1 morning session, and from the limited amount of people I have spoken to, it does appear they went in registration order.

Also, if you happen to have any information that would disprove this theory, please share it (i.e. someone who you know registered AFTER you got an earlier exam than you)



-- Edited by countryroads on Monday 8th of August 2022 04:45:57 AM


 Yup, I registered as soon as we could sign up for the exam. Took The exam first session of the first day. 



__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 23
Date:

Same I registered as soon as i was able to maybe first or second day. Every else I know that registered last min or late had the 2nd day either late or early session

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us