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bookworm · Veteran Member

RE: Protest Discussion

Elise1 · Member

Tenfour16 haven't u seen all my posts about the apprehension question trying to tell guys to protest it but no one is replying or seems to care

TenFour16 · Guru

Your right. I guess its just a section no one pays mind to !

That can be my point !!!!

TenFour16 · Guru

Ladies and gents, Elise and another poster brought up an easy double answer. The apprehension question is 100% a double answer. Remember this one clearly. They had establish command post as being wrong. Not true, the question didnt ask what steps come first. Just "most correct".

Finest7578 · Veteran Member

@10four16

Wouldn't that be the purpose of them asking for "most correct" answers ? This way when we say they're both in the procedure they can shoot that down by saying that one comes first so it's "most correct". That's how I always understood it .

Ucon4real · Veteran Member

TenFour16 wrote:
bookworm wrote:
Noice wrote:
The cousin is assault 2...serious physical injury penal law definition needs to be permanent/protracted disfigurement or impairment. A broken arm is not protracted disfigurement. There is no ADA in NY that would charge Assault 1 for that case. Look up People vs Jerreld it was a NY case in 2008. Judges found that a broken bone is not serious physical injury so we have case law to support it. Also the vehicle question is straight from crime classification guide word for word, so that one is also right. The question is at minimum a double answer. Also technically all of the answers are right because they are all family offenses. The list in 208-36 is family offenses that can have concurrent jurisdiction. They never asked that in the question. They asked which of the following is a family offense. They all are. If you kill your wife it's still a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. If you fail to yield to your ex boyfriend in a crosswalk and hit him, it's a violation, it's a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. The test writers messed up the wording on the question so the entire question should be thrown out or at minimum double answer.

Thank you I will be using this point.
Everyone fighting and protesting. Use this.

Amen bother!!! Thank you for this, I'll be fighting this as well when I go to my protest. Does anybody know all the protest dates? It is every weekday till the 21st? I'm definitely not waiting till the 21st.

-- Edited by Ucon4real on Saturday 8th of April 2017 11:12:01 AM

prayingforapass70 · Senior Member

BlastLivesMatter wrote:
prayingforapass70 wrote:
BlastLivesMatter wrote:
Okay so you failed?
Idk if i passed or failed CUZ I DIDNT GET TO GO..SMFH
Oh okay, well try going monday it's worth a shot

-- Edited by BlastLivesMatter on Saturday 8th of April 2017 01:05:11 AM

yes I will try on Monday.....sorry about that... its just that there are things going on with my family I'm tryin to take care of its kinda stressin me out more than this damn test did

bookworm · Veteran Member

Elise1 wrote:
Tenfour16 haven't u seen all my posts about the apprehension question trying to tell guys to protest it but no one is replying or seems to care

I already did my protest I wish I can go back. The same thing happened with the fire question The second question. But here's the thing....

I spoke to two Sgt's in my command that took the Lts test, the last one and they told me that the samething happened to them several questions were like that with the step order thing and that people tried protesting it and they didn't win. This is bull**** I took the elite and wasn't warned about this. This is the 4th time taking the test and it's the first time they do this. I just need one stupid point and it's starting to look impossible. I can't believe this crap so we not only have to memorize the patrol guide, we also have to memorize step order??? That's really cruel man. I'm sorry I can't do that ****. I'm so mad.

Sunrise · Senior Member

bookworm wrote:
TenFour16 wrote:
bookworm wrote:
Noice wrote:
The cousin is assault 2...serious physical injury penal law definition needs to be permanent/protracted disfigurement or impairment. A broken arm is not protracted disfigurement. There is no ADA in NY that would charge Assault 1 for that case. Look up People vs Jerreld it was a NY case in 2008. Judges found that a broken bone is not serious physical injury so we have case law to support it. Also the vehicle question is straight from crime classification guide word for word, so that one is also right. The question is at minimum a double answer. Also technically all of the answers are right because they are all family offenses. The list in 208-36 is family offenses that can have concurrent jurisdiction. They never asked that in the question. They asked which of the following is a family offense. They all are. If you kill your wife it's still a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. If you fail to yield to your ex boyfriend in a crosswalk and hit him, it's a violation, it's a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. The test writers messed up the wording on the question so the entire question should be thrown out or at minimum double answer.

Thank you I will be using this point.
Everyone fighting and protesting. Use this.
Yoooo that's our point right there yay!!!! We passed!!!!

I think that you're right about that family question. Does anybody know if they asked if about concurrent jurisdiction in the question?

DeezNutz · Veteran Member

Sunrise wrote:
bookworm wrote:
TenFour16 wrote:
bookworm wrote:
Noice wrote:
The cousin is assault 2...serious physical injury penal law definition needs to be permanent/protracted disfigurement or impairment. A broken arm is not protracted disfigurement. There is no ADA in NY that would charge Assault 1 for that case. Look up People vs Jerreld it was a NY case in 2008. Judges found that a broken bone is not serious physical injury so we have case law to support it. Also the vehicle question is straight from crime classification guide word for word, so that one is also right. The question is at minimum a double answer. Also technically all of the answers are right because they are all family offenses. The list in 208-36 is family offenses that can have concurrent jurisdiction. They never asked that in the question. They asked which of the following is a family offense. They all are. If you kill your wife it's still a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. If you fail to yield to your ex boyfriend in a crosswalk and hit him, it's a violation, it's a family offense, it just wouldn't have concurrent jurisdiction. The test writers messed up the wording on the question so the entire question should be thrown out or at minimum double answer.

Thank you I will be using this point.
Everyone fighting and protesting. Use this.
Yoooo that's our point right there yay!!!! We passed!!!!
I think that you're right about that family question. Does anybody know if they asked if about concurrent jurisdiction in the question?

I can attest that concurrent jurisdiction was not mention in the stem of the question. I pointed this out awhile back also.

Chico Escuela · Veteran Member

prayingforapass70 wrote:
BlastLivesMatter wrote:
prayingforapass70 wrote:
BlastLivesMatter wrote:
Okay so you failed?
Idk if i passed or failed CUZ I DIDNT GET TO GO..SMFH
Oh okay, well try going monday it's worth a shot

-- Edited by BlastLivesMatter on Saturday 8th of April 2017 01:05:11 AM
yes I will try on Monday.....sorry about that... its just that there are things going on with my family I'm tryin to take care of its kinda stressin me out more than this damn test did

The end is here. Good luck to everybody else.

Aqfyn3st · Senior Member

That was a nasty question they need to throw out that family question. A lot of people will pass the exam. Also remember in the past they deleted questions. Deleting a question will hurt a lot of people. But for people's sake hope they throw it out.

Yoloking · Member

Regarding the family offense: If there was no value of the car, stealing the car could have been a petit larceny of a vehicle, since gla is a car valued at over $100.

But in my experience, even though gla is a subsection of gl, it's never lumped into the same category as each other on this job at any time.

TenFour16 · Guru

We have to fight that question. For everyone who just lurks on the board. Use the post by Noice that I just quoted to fight.

For everyone who gets the apprhension one wrong. Fight that one too. Lets fight till the end. For everyone who has a 67-69, there is hope. Dont lose hope guys.

Send in your protests.

TenFour16 · Guru

Thats another way to fight the question, hey never specify if the vehicle is over $100. Honestly, with the question saying "most correct" they can rebuttle with that unfortunately, but what the question itself is asking can also be fought. There is more then one way to fight this question.

Agfynest, what do you mean by "deleted questions" ?

TenFour16 · Guru

I could be wrong actually. The choice said the car was worth 10K I believe. Womp womp. Still ways to fight it though, in regards to what exactly they are asking.

bookworm · Veteran Member

TenFour16 wrote:
I could be wrong actually. The choice said the car was worth 10K I believe. Womp womp. Still ways to fight it though, in regards to what exactly they are asking.

No never said that. Only said make model.... oh but wait.... did it say the year??? this is retarded!

UrinalFly · Senior Member

Actually they specified that the car was worth 10K... but I still prorested that question.

bookworm · Veteran Member

The only thing we can fight with that is them not saying which one has concurrent jurisdiction as opposed to just family offense.

fighten0h · Member

Anyone get the mayors executive order question wrong ? If I remember correctly the answer I saw was inspector general and comish of inspections

Artiemac · Veteran Member

Dude it said which one is a family offense .. had nothing at all to do with concurrent jurisdictions.. look at the list of family offenses in 208 36 .. just because an incident has to do with two family members doesn't make it a family list . Refer to the list " had a arms"

bookworm · Veteran Member

Family Offense question is not going to be a toss out. Check out the definition for family offense.

Nicholasjames65 · Veteran Member

Can someone post the updated answer key again please. Thank you

TenFour16 · Guru

They locked us into 208-36, Where in 208-36 does it say that a broken bone is SPI ?

Forget the rest of the Patrol Guide, we were locked into 208-36. As per the penal law a broken arm is NOT Serious Physical Injury. Its Assault 2 for the cousins.

The question is asking for MOST correct, not THE correct answer. Although the question is locking us into a certain procedure, THE CHOICES are basically Penal Law based choices. In order to answer this question CORRECTLY, we had to know the PENAL LAW also, not just 208-36.

Yes, I get it, INTEND to cause SPI with a dangerous instrument is Assault 1. But as per the Penal Law, a broken arm isn't SPI.

This question needs to be fought. There is too much of a gray area, no one should give fighting this one up.

NO ONE !

papote170 · Senior Member

You guys are a bunch of Idiots !! ... why are u guys posting questions regarding your exam ??... how sure are you the make up exam takers are not taking the same exam as you did ??? .. until EVERYONE takes the exam,, discussions regarding questions should not happen on this forum !! ..

Sunrise · Senior Member

Nicholasjames65 wrote:
Can someone post the updated answer key again please. Thank you

yougonow · Guru

I think I remember like three questions and that's it. You guys hold on to this for dear life I see.

BlastLivesMatter · Senior Member

For the question that the answer is level 1 use of force because the guy got taken down and then received stitches. According to this chart it says Take Down is level 1 as an example but it also says Any injury resulting in Sutures (stitches) or requires hospital treatment is a SUB PI but any SUB PI is a Level 2 level use of force. can anyone elaborate?

-- Edited by BlastLivesMatter on Sunday 9th of April 2017 02:00:04 AM

doowee58 · Veteran Member

BlastLivesMatter wrote:
For the question that the answer is level 1 use of force because the guy got taken down and then received stitches. According to this chart it says Take Down is level 1 as an example but it also says Any injury resulting in Sutures (stitches) or requires hospital treatment is a SUB PI. and any SUB PI is a Level 2. can anyone elaborate?

level 1 force and PI>>> immediate supervisor

level 1 force and Sub PI>>> CO/Duty Capt

level 1 force and Serious PI>>> IAB

NauseousPBBN · Senior Member

Were there two levels of force questions? I thought there was one of a women breaking her ankle

BlastLivesMatter · Senior Member

NauseousPBBN wrote:
Were there two levels of force questions? I thought there was one of a women breaking her ankle

This was the 2nd.

Pass1234 · Member

I believe the question asked what level of force was used and who investigates it so it's level one use of force because of the takedown and the commanding officer investigate it because of the stitches

bookworm · Veteran Member

doowee58 wrote:
BlastLivesMatter wrote:
For the question that the answer is level 1 use of force because the guy got taken down and then received stitches. According to this chart it says Take Down is level 1 as an example but it also says Any injury resulting in Sutures (stitches) or requires hospital treatment is a SUB PI. and any SUB PI is a Level 2. can anyone elaborate?

level 1 force and PI>>> immediate supervisor
level 1 force and Sub PI>>> CO/Duty Capt
level 1 force and Serious PI>>> IAB

My protest for this is the "or" in between level of force and type of injury. I picked level one and immediate supervisor takes over and the proposed answer was level 1 co/duty investigates. The or would mean to me that either or so if its a certain injury or a particular use of force, then that supervisor investigates. Now it's not in this picture but if you turn to the actual guide and look at the additional data statement the chart they have there says co/duty captain and borough investigations, yet this chart says otherwise. I would use the chart in the guide against them. That's a conflict in the procedure cause then it would mean both need to investigate yet the answer didn't have any mention of borough investigations just co/duty captain. An interim order needs to be done to correct that. print out the patrol guide procedure the chart I'm talking about in the additional data section and bring that to the protest.

doowee58 · Veteran Member

Bookworm>>> forget this chart... be guided by actual PG.... PG TELLS YOU level 1 forced used BUT caused SUB PI ??? CO/duty capt investigates

bookworm · Veteran Member

doowee58 wrote:
Bookworm>>> forget this chart... be guided by actual PG.... PG TELLS YOU level 1 forced used BUT caused SUB PI ??? CO/duty capt investigates

You did not read what I wrote underneath I said use the pg chart to fight the question read what I wrote.

Aqfyn3st · Senior Member

1472 is the new number I am hearing with the passers. If that's true long ass list. Very bottom heavy.

TenFour16 · Guru

How did that number change so fast without the completed submissions of protests ?

bookworm · Veteran Member

I'm not believing that no way! Protest session is not even over!!

BlastLivesMatter · Senior Member

Aqfyn3st wrote:
1472 is the new number I am hearing with the passers. If that's true long ass list. Very bottom heavy.

Fake News

Queens Finest · Member

I highly doubt that is true. Like I've previously posted, I was the one who sent the original FOIL request in. The number was 1182 as of March 24. That was straight from DCAS. I would take any conflicting information very lightly.

TenFour16 · Guru

Can anyone else confirm if these "changes" were already added into our answer keys at the PRS, such as the double answers ?

Gk06 · Veteran Member

Sunrise wrote:
Nicholasjames65 wrote:
Can someone post the updated answer key again please. Thank you
Updated??? Looks the same to me

TenFour16 · Guru

For the people who lurk on the board and don't post, and for those who want a way to protest a question thats a CLEAR double answer or throwout, here is one, as I mentioned before.

The Apprehension Plan question (the question which had the answer as "Debrief civilians who have sustained minor injuries") was MESSED UP.

Even if they use the "which step comes first" excuse, they will still be wrong.

As PER 213-12,

the NOTE under Step 12 states. "Where possible, uniformed member and potential civilian witnesses who have sustained minor injuries should be immediately debriefed BY A RESPONDING SUPERVISOR *OR* DETECTIVE before leaving the scene for treatment."

Step 16 states: Establish a Command Post (marked as a wrong answer as per DCAS.)

If the MOST CORRECT answer is what is being looked for, the MOST CORRECT answer should be Establish A Command Post. It is a better choice because the note under Step 12 states civilian witnesses who have sustained minor injuries should be immediately debriefed BY A RESPONDING SUPERVISOR *OR* DETECTIVE. The Supervisor DOES NOT HAVE TO debrief the civilian who has sustained injuries, the Detective can do it ALSO, however IT IS ONLY THE PATROL SUPERVISOR WHO CAN ESTABLISH A COMMAND POST. "ESTABLISH A COMMAND POST" is the better choice and is the OVERALL answer that is MOST CORRECT.

Send in your protests. Lets not give them this one.

-- Edited by TenFour16 on Sunday 9th of April 2017 09:39:38 PM

1012by1 · Member

Apprehension plan had an answer that said to set up an investigative command post. Don't waste your time with that one.

Elise1 · Member

Had answer set up command post not investigative command wat are you talking about

TenFour16 · Guru

Investigative Command Post ?

Definitely not on that question. I remember seeing it on the computer screen. Said Establish a Command Post.

making dcas great again · Senior Member

I want to know if anyone that attended the protest section had the map question wrong ? or did they throw out that question

Bo5 · Member

I got the map question wrong

1012by1 · Member

step 37a, establish an investigative command post....that was the incorrect choice. it's a duty of db duty captain

100questions · Senior Member

making dcas great again wrote:
I want to know if anyone that attended the protest section had the map question wrong ? or did they throw out that question

I got the map question wrong as well.