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Post Info TOPIC: Top pay Sgt to Lt?


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Top pay Sgt to Lt?


This has been a question on my mind for quite a while, and let me be the first to say this is not a thread meant to troll or start a rank war.  
 
 
But what's up with all the givebacks to take the rank of Lt on this job?
 
 
 
First, you give back nearly all of your chart days for 7 years.  Not ALL of them, but for the first 4 years I believe you get 0.  And then you get nickle and dimed up until you complete 7 years in rank.  That's a pretty darned long time.  A Sgt with OVER 5 years in rank gets 3 additional chart days onto whatever chart they're working.  So if you do 8:57's, and have over 5 years in rank, and have steady RDOs, you'll get 30 chart days per year (or 6 weeks worth of chart days).  If you work a scooter chart(5/2,5/3) with 8:57's, then you get 26 less appearances just due to the extra day off every other week(52 weeks in a year), in addition to 10 chart days on top for a total number of 36 LESS appearances per year(this also if you have 5+ in the rank of Sgt).  Over 7 years this equates to working approximately 245 less appearances, if you factor in the few days Lt gets for the last 3 years before completing 7 years in rank.
 
 
 
As of the current contract, gross take home for top pay Sgt for 2 weeks = $3,973.  So if you factor in the loss of approximately 30 chart days per year the monetary value of that = approximately $12,000 per year.
 
 
 
So, for the first 3 years as a Lt you will be given a $4,500 base pay raise from $103,500 to $108,000.  $12,000 worth of chart days - 4,500 base pay raise = $7,500 pay cut.  This is not even factoring in SBA dental and prescription plans, which I hear are substantially better than Lt.  That could be a big deal if you have a big family.
 
 
 
And what about if your Special Assignment/Sgt Det Squad?  Making Lt pay already?  Would it be a smart move to take the promotion or stick it out at Sgt making Lt pay (especially if youre making good overtime)?
 
 
 

 

Is taking the rank of Lt *ALWAYS* a good decision for ALL Sgts?


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Seems like you answered your own question. The rank is not for everyone. With every rank on this job it seems that you have to make some sacrifices.

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fair enough, but I want to see a comparison of top pay lieutenant (3 years) and top pay sgt with chart days....



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Pay is pensionable. Chart days are not.



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The unions have been giving away things to receive concessions in the negotiations forever. The promotion to Lieutenant is worth it for the fact that there are that many less people telling you what to do. Additionally, anything big is going to be bumped up to the Captain.

   Then there is the pay: in 2018 at the top of the contract a top pay Sergeant will be making $109,360 base. A top pay Lt. will be making $125,000 base. That is a difference of $16,000. You would have to work nearly 200 hours of overtime to make the extra $16,000 in salary. The longevity and uniform allowance are also more as Lt. The Lieutenant's tour is also 12 minutes shorter than a Sergeants. 12 min X 243 appearances = 48 hours. This equates to an estimated $2,885 in additional salary. It also means you start earning overtime 12 minutes earlier.

   Don't forget about the annuity that the city contributes. It is more as Lt. Plus the terminal leave buyout (if you choose).

   Compare dental and prescription plans. There isn't that much difference now.



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 If you work a scooter chart(5/2,5/3) with 8:57's, then you get 26 less appearances just due to the extra day off every other week(52 weeks in a year)

 EVERYONE works 20 days a month, scooter or steady.



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The rank of Lt is great for anyone to be promoted with less than 13 years on choosing to do only 20 years.  Plus getting in a detail within their last 5 years.  

Those doing 25 years, the earliest possible year to promotion, the better.  

For most on the 25 year plan, assuming a recruit join the department at 25 years to 30 years old, it seems this job will be their main career.   Promotion to the rank you want to achieve as high up as you can go, is beneficial. Pension wise.  Assuming the above factors, staying 30 years and achieving a minimum of lieutenant, would be the best option if I were to get on under the current system.   that's a lot of years for the contact percentages to climb and get the most out of my pension numbers.   



-- Edited by Boogie Knight on Friday 29th of July 2016 02:23:23 PM

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Guru

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Yeah, losing chart days is a kick in the pants.  But let's be real here.... No one is turning down the white shirt.  End of conversation.



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It all depends on your personal situation. The promotion to any rank on this job isn't always a great move for everyone all the time. Just look at the Captain rank. There is a big quality of life issue with that rank right there, but you can't argue that after completing 3 years in that rank you have a great base salary, without ever having to depend on OT or the lack of it again. OT being cut across the board? No biggie... You're an executive. I guess it would depend on a bunch of different factors for any rank, like:

1) How far are you from your planned retirement? Long enough away from the concessions the new rank will give you to ultimately benefit from the rank? For example, if you have 15 years on the job and plan on leaving at 20... Is it gonna be worth it to take the promotion to Lt if you're a Sgt with tons of chart days and in a place where you are getting your 35-40 a month, and can suck up the loss of 30 or so chart days per year for the remainder of your career, and the likely loss of OT as a rookie Lt?

2) I hear the chart days aren't pensionable argument, but they are definitely a quality of life issue. Personally, 30 days a year that you can spend with my kids/family/friends is a big deal for some. I know it is for myself. I put this in a check mark for the negative column for the rank.

3) Annuity is higher for Lt. Uniform is higher for Lt. Longevity at the 15-year+ mark is not. The Sgts have higher longevity from the 15+ mark forward, they got this with last contract after they gave back the FLSA lawsuit... Not sure on the numbers but I believe around $300-$400 per year?

4) 7 years of chart days is a big give back. Lets be honest, I think the only rank that has a worse giveback is the DEA. I believe they lose chart days for 8 years... Wasn't a good move on part of the LBA, it is a giveback the Lt rank feels without a doubt.

5) I know a few Sgts who make Lt pay, and they haven't taken nor plan to take the exam. They are not on patrol. They are happy, they make great OT and they are in good gigs without many worries.

6) You can strive for LSA/LCD which will give you a base pay raise to $138,000 in 2018. While not as big as the jump from Sgt to Lt/SSA/SDS at $16,000, it is $12,500. Still pretty good.

It's probably a much tougher decision if you have some time on the job and are SSA/SDS making top Lt pay w/OT... But blanket statements like taking a certain promotion is better for everyone all the time just isn't true. I think it's probably like that in every job.

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Don't forget it is also an extra year to reach top pay as a sergeant . Sba made it 4 years to top pay from 3 so that was a little bit of a sell out on thier part.
I guess if u have no intention of being captain . Then stay as a Sgt with the Lt pay if you are sds/ssa.


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Boogie Night, your math is off.  A 5/2 5/3 (patrol cop/patrol sgt) chart works about 17 less days a year than a Lieutenant working a 5/2.  The chart days lost make it even more.  Still sucks though.  I miss those 3 day swings.  But atleast I get to leave 17 minutes earlier than my sgts. smh my union sucks



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BurnEd wrote:

Boogie Night, your math is off.  A 5/2 5/3 (patrol cop/patrol sgt) chart works about 17 less days a year than a Lieutenant working a 5/2.  The chart days lost make it even more.  Still sucks though.  I miss those 3 day swings.  But atleast I get to leave 17 minutes earlier than my sgts. smh my union sucks


 I stand corrected.  



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My biggest gripe is that as a lieutenant you work 45 min every single day for free. No chart days? Fine, but then I want to work 8 hour shifts, not 8:45. Screw that.

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If you have a gig where you were liked enough to achieve SSA/SDS, chances are you will be able to get back there as LT. and possibly make LSA/LCD. Unless you are hated in your gig, most people who had good details as Sgts do a year or so on patrol and then go back to the detail they were in. Assuming you will be on patrol as a Platoon Commander or replacement Lt forever is not a good argument for not taking the rank.

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