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Post Info TOPIC: The "Loophole Lieutenant"- Please Read


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The "Loophole Lieutenant"- Please Read


Guys,

Back in November we received a survey from reengineering regarding the Sgt and Lt's "All in" conference. This was my response at the time. Please, anyone, feel free to copy or edit this as a basis either in part or as whole, as a communication to any media outlet, firm etc. I believe it touches on a lot of the key points surrounding this test. Adding in the current sitting statistics of this test will do wonders to drive the point home. Thanks.

 

 

My response to the reengineering survey on 11/18/15:

 

The 2015 Lieutenant's promotional exam was an absolute abomination. One would think that those at an executive level in this department would have a vested interest in ensuring that only the best and the brightest advance through promotion. The 2015 exam touched on some of the  most obscure and insignificant procedures that this job has to offer. As a result, the genuinely bright guy, say someone who scored a 93 on their Sgt's promotional exam, failed this test. Of course, shortly after the official administration of the test, the military and religious test takers come equipped with nearly all the information concerning the test and place well. Ordinarily, it wouldn't concern me that the second batch of test takers (not all) more or less cheat their way on to the list. Typically, a smart person can still place better than one of the "cheaters" given that even remembering just 100 questions proves difficult for someone of that caliber. However, because this exam was so poorly written, the sharp guy didn't fair well. And so now you have a top heavy promotional list comprised of the those who were not truly vetted through the testing process, and of course a few genuinely  brilliant individuals who played fair. Speaking from my experience specifically, I took my Sgt's promotional exam as rookie cop, with no prior testing experience, and very little job experience at the time. I studied hard and placed very, very well. Fast forward five years, and applying the same, if not more dedication in studying, I came to the Lt's exam now armed with prior testing experience, job experience, and maturity. Now while its understood that no two tests are the same, given my approach, if this were a fair test, I would have done just as well if not better than I did on my Sgt's exam. This is the same story for a countless number of my co-workers. As mentioned, if change is what this job is looking for, more emphasis needs to be placed on the exam process. We want and need the brightest in management to take this department in the right direction. The test needs to be difficult, very difficult at that, but fair. Most importantly, the institutionalized practice of allowing for an alternate testing date for the "loophole" test cheaters takers must end. It completely undermines the legitimacy of the test. Apply this to a worldview and just imagine if 40% of practicing trauma surgeons in a given hospital obtained their position through illegitimate means. Donned in their medical attire and apparatus, there's no telling them apart from other actually qualified surgeons and the potential circumstances can be deadly. While this example may come off as a bit of a reach, putting a newly minted "loophole lieutenant" out in the public draws the same exact parallel if you ask me. This "loophole Lieutenant" will undoubtedly face life and risk situations of all sorts, without ever truly being qualified to do so. And what's most egregious; the public that we stand to serve will simply believe that this "loophole lieutenant" , while donned in his white uniform shirt, is qualified, vetted, and trusted to handle any situation at hand. Sadly, we know this is not true.

 

 

 

 

-My two cents

 

 

 

 



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This is great, this is what should be in the newspapers.

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Thanks. I've read a lot of other good posts on the matter recently, but in my experience, this will incite public interest. Mainly by mentioning the risk posed to the public, and by relating it to another much more commonly known profession (The surgeon vs rank of LT) for ease of comprehension on their part. It sounds a little cheeky but what we need is maximum exposure. The "Sensationalism" factor will sell. We must elaborate on how critical a LT is at a precinct level so the average person will understand how they orchestrate an unfolding job. Tie that in to some real world examples of what can happen if the LT, "The boss with the final say" is unqualified and the ensuing ramifications of his decisions. """OMG the public is at risk oh no""" That's what will get this plane off the ground. Play the media, trust me. This job cowers to public opinion.

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I mean there's a lot of truth to it. The result of having idiot cheaters managing a platoon of police officers could literally have deadly consequences.

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Exactly. That's why this will take off. It's honestly true. The Loophole LT is putting everyone at risk from his Sgt's and cops, down to every member of the public that they may interact with. They are not qualified. They were not qualified to be a SGT for Christ sake. Under normal circumstances, they more likely than not would have remained a cop. Which is fine. Cops take direction....there is nothing wrong with that. Now, however, they are giving direction, which can cost lives. Someone get this out.

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Most people on this job especially higher ranks couldn't of wrote a more articulate response to this joke of a exam and the tragedy of the make up process corruption that followed.. And people that wrote the above scored in the 60's who studied for 9 months while these coast guard reserves conveniently washed their life preservers on the weekend of the test.



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Thank you Sir,

I've done some research, and there is still some room for recourse on this test. Much like ANY CHANGE with this job, it starts with a media bomb. This needs to be put out to as many outlets as possible. It will NEVER make a headline, but, it will generate a few inquiries to DCPI as a request for more information on the matter. Those requests will be channeled to various units for clarity on the testing practice before DCPI gives a short response to close out the communication. It will at least stir the pot, and put this on the map from an outside perspective. Then queue whatever legal action we may try. Before any massive use of force payout the city gives, there are countless news articles. Same idea here, just on a microscopic scale. I will share my research for recourse later today or Monday, I just want to make sure its fully accurate before I post it.

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We would have to edit it slightly for the general public, sort of explain a little upfront about how the loophole lieutenants perform their corruption, but this is perfect for circulation within the job and DCAS.

DCAS doesn't care, they've made that known. Whoever's decision it was to have no changes, whether it be the DCAS commissioner or someone else, should be forced to resign. 106, really?

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Perfectly written. You hit every thing on the head. I myself scored a 89 on my Sgt exam and walked out of this test with a 67. The worse part of it all is Im sure the higher ups heard about all this the past 10 months and did nothing. Then smacked us in the face with zero changes.

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Thanks, I'm in nearly the same boat as you as far as score goes. Not to repeat myself, but the media is the only way to create the initial stir here. The best angle of approach is drilling home that this IS now a public safety issue and the safety of the public is at risk. No one will care about the poor Sgt making 140k a year who now feels slighted due to an unfair test. That's for us to deal with. The life and safety of the public is at risk by having these Loophole LT's on the frontline. These anointed decision makers never would have made it past the rank of P.O... It can cost lives, and potentially cost the city millions in litigation because of incidents gone awry stemming from their direct involvement. That's the push. That's the story. Someone with contacts should get it out.



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I think the media should be contacted by a legal representative and not random edps on this forum.

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I know I had back and forth info---ie rumors--- and my 208 number was off by 4---but I had been warning of this military/Sabbath/LODI scam from the beginning. You can look at my posts from way back when or whatever----I never thought DCAS and the job would allow only the elite 128 and the 76 cheats to stand alone. (my source had 80 makeup passers but was off by 4). And neither did my source. But they did. And the cheaters won BIG on this one. 62 out of 76 have cheated not once---but twice. for the elite 128-----you will sit for the capt exam sometime down the line and these same people will once again cheat you and the system by doing a makeup. you are already BEAT. my only word to you----don't forget. remember who they are. remember when you are peers. remember they short cut things to get whats best for THEM. not the dept or you. THEM. cause that's what these people are all about. THEM. don't ever ever ever forget that. be wary of every single one. asterisk them and give them the exposure they deserve when they go to their pcts earlier then all of you who worked your tails off. let their cops and sgts under them make determinations of their character, but the cops deserve to know these people are out for themselves and will manipulate and cheat any way they can to get ahead. good luck



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ondeeair2321 wrote:

I know I had back and forth info---ie rumors--- and my 208 number was off by 4---but I had been warning of this military/Sabbath/LODI scam from the beginning. You can look at my posts from way back when or whatever----I never thought DCAS and the job would allow only the elite 128 and the 76 cheats to stand alone. (my source had 80 makeup passers but was off by 4). And neither did my source. But they did. And the cheaters won BIG on this one. 62 out of 76 have cheated not once---but twice. for the elite 128-----you will sit for the capt exam sometime down the line and these same people will once again cheat you and the system by doing a makeup. you are already BEAT. my only word to you----don't forget. remember who they are. remember when you are peers. remember they short cut things to get whats best for THEM. not the dept or you. THEM. cause that's what these people are all about. THEM. don't ever ever ever forget that. be wary of every single one. asterisk them and give them the exposure they deserve when they go to their pcts earlier then all of you who worked your tails off. let their cops and sgts under them make determinations of their character, but the cops deserve to know these people are out for themselves and will manipulate and cheat any way they can to get ahead. good luck


Agree 100%,...we need serious changes implemented ,...but that's a DCAS issue 



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DOA wrote:

I think the media should be contacted by a legal representative and not random edps on this forum.


 I agree.. I suggest we gather our thoughts so that we can articulate ourselves to our attorney, who will represent us.



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A rookie cop just recently got convicted of manslaughter because he was ill trained and basically "given the answers" to push him through the academy. IMO this kid choked in a very tragic situation that resulted in the worst case scenario. Now you have someone that was basically "given the answers" in charge of a platoon / daily operations of a command / or even worse the overall integrity of the command. What a joke.

Good post - but I feel like the whoa is me part needs to be tweaked. Saying things like the exam is an abomination could be seen as an opinion. The media isnt the worst option. A precedence was already set with the FDNY exam relative to an exam not being biased but having "biased results". It took years but these guys were given priority and retroactive pay and time in rank as soon as they walked through the doors of probie school.

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I agree Mr. turd. Those FD guys received seven years backpay. And please as mentioned, I offered up my original post for anyone to grab and edit. Collectively we can shape it in to something decent and more factually based. Then roll it down the hill...



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Come on ! There has to be someone who is reading this forum who has the opportunity to meet or even work at the chief of Dept. Office / Commissioner office who can bring this injustice to their attention. Come on ..even if you passed his debacle of an exam .. you have to have some sympathy for those who failed , WE CANNOT LET THESE SCAMMERS GET AWAY WITH THIS ! It needs to be fixed ! So plzzz. .help us out! I know for a fact this site has to have someone reading it who has enough "juice" / "hook" to bring these injustice to an end !



-- Edited by papote170 on Saturday 20th of February 2016 04:40:17 AM

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Reach out to the Inspector General NYC DOI.
They oversee DCAS
212 825 5904

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Samiam32 wrote:

Reach out to the Inspector General NYC DOI.
They oversee DCAS
212 825 5904


This sounds like a good route. Right at the top.  



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Im surprised none of you dropped a log. They have to investigate it.  Then again, maybe it would get kicked down to a BS communication.  



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fodx wrote:
Samiam32 wrote:

Reach out to the Inspector General NYC DOI.
They oversee DCAS
212 825 5904


This sounds like a good route. Right at the top.  


I agree. Everyone should call and file complaints. Corruption unfair testing etc. The attorney general as well. They can't ignore numerous complaints. This is the first step towards possible change.  



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Ok here we go:

DEPARTMENT OF CITYWIDE ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
City Civil Service Commission

CLINTON DAGGAN - Inspector General
cdaggan@doi.nyc.gov
80 Maiden Lane, New York, N.Y. 10038
(212) 825-5483
Fax: (212) 425-0375

 

lets flood this guy with emails!



-- Edited by fodx on Saturday 20th of February 2016 08:36:50 PM

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From the 2015 Lt Test NOTICE OF EXAM:

PENALY FOR MISREPRESENTATION: Any intentional misrepresentation on the application or examination may result in disqualification, even after promotion, and may result in criminal prosecution.


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Samuan.....there was also a CUT OFF DATE ON NOE....obv we saw how well that worked out

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Yes I know but I really believe there is something here. Maybe not for our exam but definitely for future exams. The problem with this job is that everyone is afraid to fight back and we take **** lying down. Fear of retaliation, fear of speaking up, fear of being called a rat. I've been around long enough to see that the winds of change are blowing. The job is changing drastically. Just because that's how it's always been doesn't make it right. if this exam is as corrupt as rumors have it then how can we not have a chance of at least making some noise. Somethings just can't be ignored. We were screwed. I don't care what anybody says the accommodations for the make up exams are unfair. The fact that 0 changes occurred is suspicious at best. There is no way that test was that airtight. I'm not saying 19 changes but the fix was in. With this current anti police culture we just keep getting screwed over.

1% from perb...the fix was in.
PO Laung... Fix was in....
0 throwouts from Lt test... Fix was in

Just how I see it.


In the end if we are going to have a lawsuit or contact DOI we need facts not rumors and we need to do it soon. If there's another test in the near future people need to focus on studying vs checking this forum for updates and speculation. We all have wasted enough time these past 10 months doing that.

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Samiam32 wrote:

Yes I know but I really believe there is something here. Maybe not for our exam but definitely for future exams. The problem with this job is that everyone is afraid to fight back and we take **** lying down. Fear of retaliation, fear of speaking up, fear of being called a rat. I've been around long enough to see that the winds of change are blowing. The job is changing drastically. Just because that's how it's always been doesn't make it right. if this exam is as corrupt as rumors have it then how can we not have a chance of at least making some noise. Somethings just can't be ignored. We were screwed. I don't care what anybody says the accommodations for the make up exams are unfair. The fact that 0 changes occurred is suspicious at best. There is no way that test was that airtight. I'm not saying 19 changes but the fix was in. With this current anti police culture we just keep getting screwed over.

1% from perb...the fix was in.
PO Laung... Fix was in....
0 throwouts from Lt test... Fix was in

Just how I see it.


In the end if we are going to have a lawsuit or contact DOI we need facts not rumors and we need to do it soon. If there's another test in the near future people need to focus on studying vs checking this forum for updates and speculation. We all have wasted enough time these past 10 months doing that.


 There definitely needs to be more transparency regarding the steps towards establishing these lists.  In addition, the theory regarding diversification seems to be in reverse.  These alternate dates are clearly rigging the odds in favor of who ever it is the easiest to take a make up and no one is doing anything for a reason.   Something strange is occurring and the cheaters have exposed themselves.



-- Edited by wisecop on Saturday 20th of February 2016 09:04:48 PM

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