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I agree

I'll start it today. One hand can't clap though

U got my signature. Let me know when.

I'm going to have 1 of my cops start one for police officer

-- Edited by SATCOM on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 04:18:53 PM

signmy28 wrote:

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We have to do it since our unions remain silent.

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 I don't think its a union issue. The SBA wouldn't waste time and money fighting for you to leave the union.  The LBA isn't gonna waste the money of current members on possible future LTs. We're on our own.

I'm down

You can definitely try the letter approach, but an Article 78 proceeding is the only legal way to pursue this issue.  However, the statute of limitations is strict and almost impossible to circumvent if it passes.

DCAS purposefully announces the final answer key after the Test Validation Board (TVB) announces the final results of this week's protests months down the road.  The statute will have passed by that time and DCAS has smothered any last limit legal arguments.

Consult an attorney to at least talk about the Article 78.  A Federal Court docket would be a lot stronger than the letter to the PC in my opinion.

You have my signature brother!! I will spread the word in regards as well..

it cant hurt. i would def sign it...
i failed miserably and have zero chance of passing no matter how many points they give us...
however, i agree with some of whats being said. i doubt bratton even has any idea as to what happened with this exam. its not like hes reading these forums or taking calls or texts from sgts about it. he probably has no idea just how miserable and messed up this exam was. im sure he heard that it was difficult, but i doubt he really knows to what extent. and i agree w SATCOM. he should be made aware of this. and if he really gives a s*** about morale and this department as a whole, he should listen..not saying he will change anything, but if he really cares the way he says he does, he should at least listen... this dept is missing out on some very good people moving up the ranks bc of a test like this. i consider myself a fairly intelligent person..college educated, and bla bla bla.... i never failed a test in my life. like all u guys, i devoted a lot of time AND money for this test. i will NEVER put myself thru this extra stress and bs ever again.... 28 chart days for life i guess...!!!!! like they say, ill "make it work for me" until i can get out and move far away from this city. good luck to those who managed to pass this garbage

I get what you mean with the unions not wanting to help us basically leave...but at the same time, I pay union dues now to the SBA and they are suppose to look out for our best interests.

 

as to rumors of a new test late next year, anyone that wastes their money, and time with theeir kids/ families to study hours and hours on end for months only to be tested on stuff that is so far out there , good luck.  

 

I feel that whatever these classes ( rising star, elite, etc) teach, DCAS or Insano's protege will put stuff on the exm

am that wasn't taught .

 

the guys at these classes need to become super secret and gestapo the way DCAS has become.

 

you don't let Yanosik, Shea, et al sit in on your tests..then these guys need to ENSURE no DCAS or EMD ****s sit in on the classes.

-- Edited by signmy28 on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 08:53:49 PM

Oh my God, I got a 54!  Every test the failures do/say the same crap.  WE FAILED.  THE TEST WAS HARD.<PERIOD  Thats it! The question asked were still in the damn book.  The in-basket was HARD but it was still an in-basket.  I studied my ass off and spent many months away from my wife and kids and will be a dinosaur the time another test rolls out.  My time will come.  Remember Arnolds 6 steps; before you attempt anything you must be willing to fail.  I would be more mad at the schools that charge an obscene price for material that is no longer tested.  Think about how many hours you lost sitting through Yanosiks lectures on procedures you have been studying heavy since your first sergeants test.   

-- Edited by Failboat on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 10:41:09 PM

In box me when you are ready for signatures... I think they are doing us wrong and this is not the first time... 2011, then the sgt exam extra 30 and no extra time, now this.. Something has to be done. Good luck and congrats for those that made it but many ppl who put alot of time in failed and that is bs. I can't believe each time it gets worst.

I shoulda been a gym teacher.

SATCOM wrote:

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I don't mind personally driving from command to command to get signatures. obviously if we can get a representative from each command to get signatures and compile them we can get upwards of 2,500 signatures attached to the letter.  
-- Edited by SATCOM on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 02:38:54 PM

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 BUMP

I will definitely sign it as a grave injustice has been done to us. But please post any type
Of reply that you may receive. By the Time this Letter makes it to his desk the official list will be out. A better idea would be to
Request in writing a meeting with the PC himsef.

SATCOM: am I with you brother.. anything I can do get things moving in the right direction!

I'm getting hundreds of emails. It's looking good

A few guys and myself are writing a letter. We are openly requesting that the schools give input. We are making recommendations that an overhaul needs to be done...more info coming soon. Stand by

Let's think about this ....

these schools are a business. Bottom line. 

at the end of the say - they will only benefit and make money from the thousands of fools that will pay them for an unreliable product. 

 

theh are all probably salivating at the thought of making another quick dose of mega bucks. 

lets take yano for example - whose course this time aRound was the biggest ripoff

..800  for every 1000 customers made 800,000. 

do you think his best interest is a good decent fair exam w a long list?.  

Count me in!

I've posted this idea in other threads but it's worth repeating. The job needs to hire an independent outfit to study the promotion process and then sub the test-writing out to professional writers. It is truly an embarassment to take a test filled with spelling and grammar errors. I know in the NYPD spelling doesn't really count; however poor grammar can change the entire meaning of a sentence. We have unprofessional test-writers (I say unprofessional because their occupation is not test-writer- it is cop) pretending to be lawyers ripping out passages from a just as poorly written and inconsistent Patrol Guide. The "gotcha" culture in the NYPD has now spread from In-Tac "Fun House" shootings, to Compstat, and now into test-writing. Leaders don't laugh at you after you fail. How many higher-ups have had something smart-aleck to say after hearing how hard this test was? I even heard someone say, "I got a 91 on my Lt's test. Well, what can you expect from what we've been hiring?" (Really guy?!)
Leaders try to prepare you and prevent you from failing. So far, I've been impressed with the PC's leadership team. I believe this will be an area of concern for his people. A large miserable portion of the culture of IAB was gutted out under this PC. The testing area needs gutting as well.

The last few years the job has gone out of it's way to defeat the schools. Why? The system, although far from perfect then (traditionally 1,000 best plus ties), was never as screwed up as it is now. It all started 13-14 years or so ago when a very difficult test resulted in poor grades and someone in their genius reacted and decided that candidates must score a 70 on this type of memorization exam as if we were in school taking a spelling test. Did the genius ever take into account that the given test was an outlier---a deviation from the norm? Should test-writing simply be left to different and random groups of people thrown together with the self-imposed goal of being provocative? Or shouldn't there be some sort of commitment to tradition, to fairness, relevance, consistency and continuity?

The goal of these tests should be to ensure that NYPD supervisors have a deep familiarity with the Patrol Guide - to realize that certian topics and issues have been proceduralized. Things that happen on a daily basis should be tested to ensure that battleground decisions can be made swiftly and confidently. Things that never happen should rarely be tested because there is no point. Memorization ability should be tested the way they did when we took the entrance exam. It should only be a small portion of the test as it only measures a small portion of one's intelligence. I've presided over hundreds of collars and I'd be remiss if I just relied on my memorization abilities and didn't check the Penal Law for the correct charges from time to time.

If testing continues in this manner, the NYPD will be overwhelmingly run by men and women who pass these tests soley to being to have enough free time to memorize more things than someone else. Usually (not all - there are those few who are disciplined enough to do it all) these people find the time by being single, having no family responsibilities or financial obligations, living in their parents' basements, or having an assignment where they were able to get away with not doing their assigned work (while you with the actual work ethic carried the load). So, in the end, we will be run by single 30-somethings (who marry late and then, as older executives with infants, are completely unavailable to you when you need them) or scam artists (who are always unavailable). I doubt this is what the NYPD really wants. i would think the job would want to retain it's actual talent - the doers. Or perhaps the doers would be better off, in the long run, working for private companies for profit and being rewarded for their competence.

Anyway, any letter to the PC should help us vent our frustrations - a healthy thing if nothing else.

Well-written Mud Duck!

I think there should be something done about the SIZE of the patrol guide. Its a GUIDE not a TEXTBOOK. Its not meant to be tested. If you're going to have a promotional exam based solely on something thats a guide, that guide needs to be CONCISE with little grey areas. I for the life of me can't understand why there are procedures that contradict each other.

This PG is very DRY its written by out of touch Chiefs. If anything it should be written by an outside agency for CLARITY. It should be crystal clear what to do if someone comes in with a Summons for a Cop thats gonna be sued in your command. Not well according to 202 it could be the desk or the PRAA but in 211 it has to be the DESK. That's ****ing retarded.

Hopefully you can put that in the letter as well. And also mention to make the damn test a SUNDAY or MONDAY.

1st off i forgive those that tar n feather me on this board. i only try n relay what i got. the fact that "Promo-Gate" occurred and this is being allowed is SICK. everyone who saw the exam saw that this maniac got his paws on the packets and the fact that people saw ERNIE in the CRAM class is sick. it was posted weeks ago that this loser was in Yano s cram. this makes the New Enlgand Patriots look like goddam choir boys with the s**t these guys pulled. straight out of the belicheck/brady playbook-----Insano & Ernie robbed people. this was Insano s ultimate f**k you to the job for his stagnate career. he planned this like lard ass in "stand by me" and if you dont think this is the ultimate revenge-----your in fantasy land. yes---there will be a list and it ll be no lower than 400. why? cause the city doesnt give a s**t about how hard the exam was or the legit people who passed. they care about numbers. but---insano cheated some people------and to let Promo-Gate go and left unchecked------is a huge integrity issue. there was a integrity issue with ernie being in that class and im gonna scan the posts to see who saw him but evidently its common knowledge in man south cause guys from the 13th saw him there. and some of the questions were exactly what Yano and the Leprechauns from the Key said WONT be on the EXAM. and if ur telling me insano didnt send ernie into those crams to give an old f**k you to the promo schools------your NUTS.