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It has been almost one week now and the protest session seems months if not years away. I studied 4 to 6 hours a day losing valuable time with both of my children. I spent over one thousand dollars on various study aides from Elite to The Key thinking that the more information I have and the more I study the odds of me gaining a high score would be guaranteed. I took that disastrous test and walked out extremely angry thinking wtf did I do, maybe I am being overly ambitious. I go home and the following day check my answer key to see a 68. Wtf a 68. It took me 6 hours and 45 minutes to take a 120 question multiple choice exam and then see a 68. I just want to make the list at this point.
I don't blame the key or elite and honestly think that there is nothing they can do about it nor where they ever going to think that it would be administered in this fashion. Next time I will be buying yanosik elite guide and using the LAN terminal at the cmd.
DCAS. you have 1 job at the testing sites:
stay awake
Thank you captain @$$ hole. Your a child for letting your arrogant personal motives influence the examination of thousands of good NYC Sergeants of police. We try to better ourselves and this is what we get. MY RANT.
At least you're doing better than me. Granted I didn't miss time with kids or anything because I don't have any. Im looking at a soft 60. This test has made me realize that in my short time on this job (8.5 years) I've spent too much time here on a job, that I don't particularly like, that I just happen to tolerate. So it's back to school for me work on that Master's. Set myself up for life after the job. Theres no reason to give 100% anymore.
-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 24th of April 2015 08:18:37 PM
I was cleaning out the house yesterday and gathered a stack of materials that reached up to my knee (Key, Elite, RS, PA...) and I said to myself: wow, I actually know everything that is within that stack of papers!
But the test was all about what was NOT there, it was not about what a Lieutenant needs to know, but about any outside material that could have been used to have everyone fail. Unthinkable and extremely idiotic!
Sitting on a 68 too. I abandoned my son for 7 months. Wish those close the best. Initially I was pulling for low 90 high 80s now I'll be satisfied just to make the list.
Agree 100%,...although Gamblor's key margin or error is +/- 3-4 points and is 95% accurate, I believe that anyone with at least a 60 or higher has a chance,...based on most responses on here, the average score is from 55-65,..very few from 66-75,..this is why I think that if you have a 60 or higher, you have a shot........we will see soon enough,...
Agree 100%,...although Gamblor's key margin or error is +/- 3-4 points and is 95% accurate, I believe that anyone with at least a 60 or higher has a chance,...based on most responses on here, the average score is from 55-65,..very few from 66-75,..this is why I think that if you have a 60 or higher, you have a shot........we will see soon enough,...
I would love that to be true. But I can't help but feel that this is going in the direction of the Captains lists. Lt lists use to be 1000 +. Not anymore. 2011 was 660, and that's only because of the 17 DBL answers/TO's. That's not going to happen this time because this Dvck apparently has it all covered. The Capt lists use to be 120-150 and are now in the 60's. I hope the Lt lists is not next, but its starting to look like thats where its heading.
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:14:39 PM
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:15:33 PM
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:16:02 PM
Agree 100%,...although Gamblor's key margin or error is +/- 3-4 points and is 95% accurate, I believe that anyone with at least a 60 or higher has a chance,...based on most responses on here, the average score is from 55-65,..very few from 66-75,..this is why I think that if you have a 60 or higher, you have a shot........we will see soon enough,...
I would love that to be true. But I can't help but feel that this is going in the direction of the Captains lists. Lt lists use to be 1000 +. Not anymore. 2011 was 660, and that's only because of the 17 DBL answers/TO's. That's not going to happen this time because this Dvck apparently has it all covered. The Capt lists use to be 120-150 and are now in the 60's. I hope the Lt lists is not next, but its starting to look like thats where its heading.
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:14:39 PM
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:15:33 PM
-- Edited by NOWAYOUT on Friday 24th of April 2015 09:16:02 PM
So you're saying that the cutoff is possible a 65 or better?
I think so,..at worse you're looking at a 70%,..at best a 76%,.....I'm sitting on a 70%,...hope it only goes up lol,..but at worse I would be sitting at a 67%,..still pretty Damm close. We will see
you could either add 20 points or subtract 20 depending on research questions with a 68 u could have a 48 when done or 88 good luck hope they take 20 off top
-- Edited by burgsgt on Friday 24th of April 2015 10:03:22 PM
holy dog poop...I never even thought of it that way...geez..a 68 could be a 48??!?! HAHA...I throw my hands up..but hey at least we have a dog in this fight..hope to see you at the protest site!
This what sucks about these tests with extra questions. 2011 at least we knew that they more they throw out the more you gain. Here on the other hand someone could have 75 now and have his correct answer choices thrown out.
I dont see this list as big as the previous one. If its a small list those who dont make it may as well start studying again
Samiam32 wrote:
I know I may seem a bit slow but I totally don't get the research question concept and how it helps or hurts your potential score. I was told "It won't effect your score whether you got them right or wrong because they don't count against it". Can anyone please clarify this?
It means the more you got wrong that were Research questions the better youll be. If 20 research questions are ones you got right... No good
If you are under 30 wrong and thus key is correct you csn not fsil...if you got 30 wrongand they throw out 20 questions you got right you still get a 70...your ultimate goal is to be as much under 30 wrong as possible
-- Edited by sgt2be on Saturday 25th of April 2015 01:40:23 AM
If you are under 30 wrong and thus key is correct you csn not fsil...if you got 30 wrongand they throw out 20 questions you got right you still get a 70...your ultimate goal is to be as much under 30 wrong as possible
-- Edited by sgt2be on Saturday 25th of April 2015 01:40:23 AM
Yes, you are correct. I got either 32 or 33 wrong ( haven't actually counted on the latest key) with a most likely score of a 71... no possible way I'm at a 51. Be shocked if I'm not between 66 and 74. SGT2BE, I wasn't going to bring that up but you are certainly correct.
the research question "paradox" really isn't that hard to comprehend guys.
120 questions, 20 of which are research. lets say you get 4 out of 5 questions correct on the entire exam. over the course of the entire exam that comes out to an 80%. Now let's imagine that DCAS has pre picked the 20 questions which will be research questions. It is ASSUMED by LOGIC and STATISTICS that your 4 out of 5 knowledge/guessing capabilities will hold fast and stay true to those 20 "research" questions. So unless by some crazy miracle (probably a higher chance of getting struck by lightning while flying in a plane over Brooklyn and falling out and landing on Vucinaj's house), that you actually get all 20 research questions right, and then get 20 regular test questions wrong ON TOP of the regular 4 out of 5 rule you've been keeping throughout the test, then yes, you're FOOKED.
otherwise, keep in mind that its a 120 question test and pretend the research questions don't even exist, because statistically they are just like every other question on the exam.
*DISCLAIMER: we should all hope that the operations orders questions are thrown out because we all got those wrong !! haha
I'm horrible at math. In college, I took 'Math for Poets' just so I can fill the requirement and not have it ruin my GPA. Somehow I get this. Why is the concept of statistics and probability so difficult for some of you guys to understand? It's like a casino. Yeah, you could sit down at a blackjack table, beat the odds and kill them (or you could get crushed). Across the board, over time the house is favored by 4-percent. Their bottom line will reflect that (I don't know the real house advantage in blackjack and I don't feel like looking it up but you get my point). The longer you play, the more you lose. This is how casinos stay in business.
I am certain there are biases that will skew the results of this (hence the +/- 4) but Gamblor's Key has been proven to be statistically valid. Hopefully I have a good day at the table and deviate from the norm. Given my track record at Atlantic City, I'll likely deviate in the wrong direction. LOLOL What are going to do?
Because those of us who took 2011 test do remember how assumption of logic and statistic work with this madness. Guys with upper 50's passed 70 mark and some with mid 65 failed it by couple of points. On 5th monday main role will be played by his Majesty Luck
I agree luck will play the deciding role here--which is a crying shame. I've made several suggestions in the re-engineering process regarding promotional exams. It seems all were totally ignored. I truly feel the only solution is to outsource the test-writing. Find a professional outfit such as the Rand Corporation to come in and analyze what is needed in our supervisors and test for it in a fair way. In some cases (I don't dare say all) the folks writing the test are temporarily sent to write questions mainly because they were expendable parts at their permanent commands. They are ones their COs said yeah take him (because he's useless here). These are also the ones you went to test prep courses and gave you an obscure PG question in front if the guys just to humiliate you and show all how much he knows compared to you. Meanwhile, go to a real job in the steet and the PG memorizer is too afraid to make a call and has the Duty Captain involved each time. Funnier because the duty captain rarely knows what to do either. Good luck to all. I have to believe that if you studied you may not know yet that you passed but you probably did. It just kinda sucks that you have to be made to feel this way.
I didn't sit for 2011 sig. This key wasn't around for my last test (Thank God). I'm only going by what I read here and what people have told me who have used it on recent exams. The consensus is it's legit. Still, i have no grounds to argue with you anyone who says otherwise. I actually hope you're right. I am certain the math is sound but I have to agree with you. Applying logic to anything related to this job is a dangerous excersize.
They select all the rejects to write the exam. They cold call commands begging people to write the exam. Only those who are disgruntled and have an axe to grind sign up for it. the capt running the show is this arrogant wacko who is hated throughout the job All the LTs who volunteered are hated in their respective commands There is obviously no formal vetting process
the entire system is flawed
no one high up on our job cares enough to properly oversee the exam and ensure that the test is administered properly.
the entire system is flawed
They put out this half assed PA preparation guide. Which is sad because the woman who is in charge of it is a fully capable and motivated LT. if she had the tools and the proper baking/support of them PC, she could easily promulgate a decent prep course.
The entire system is flawed
at the end of the day, they'll just put out another test. It's so insane that this is how the largest and most respected PD handles it's promotional tests. Cops count police matter. BS!! They obviously don't care - if they did they would have really put a lot of oversight into saturdays exam after the abortion of an exam they put out in 11
While I do agree the system is flawed, I don't believe our current Police Commissioner is at fault. Most PC's are political short-timers. Their job isn't to overhaul all levels of the Department within a year or two. I blame the last PC who was around for more than a decade. Since he was so entrenched, he could have taken an interest in how police supervisors are promoted. He didn't. All he cared about was making sure that all decisions went through his office to prevent anyone from shining brighter than himself. What he did was to cultivate ten years' worth of executives formed in his image - non-thinking yes-men, afraid to color outside the lines for fear of reprisal. Testing under this regime degenerated into a game of "gotcha" much in the way Compstat degenerated -pettiness reigning supreme.
That no one during his tenure, in the age of computers, was given the job of streamlining and editing contradicting and outdated police procedures is an abomination.
That no one in PC Kelly's executive staff of lackeys and sycophants allowed thinking men and women to bring meaningful change to this Department is another outrage. The exception was Chief Pulaski who, notwithstanding his sometimes over-scholastic approach, thankfully was allowed to modernize our Detective Bureau. Our new PC inherited a mess brought upon by Kelly's unbending and unyielding lack of creativity. Upon taking office, Bratton has had to deal with a Federal monitor, a rabid City Council, the liberal press, public perception of police brutality brought upon by the overuse of SQF, and a mayor who won mainly on the same SQF issue. That no one is reporting that murders continue to go down each year while SQF's have dwindled from millions to a handful is an indication of just how powerful the Bloomberg media machine was and continues to be. Kelly and Bloomberg get a pass. We get to deal with "Hands up. Don't shoot."
PC Bratton is ushering in an age of technology which I very much appreciate. This is the priority. I'm sorry to say it is NOT our promotions. I appreciate the way the Department is headed and I do believe if this PC sticks around, his team will get to this process and address it. Unfortunately, many of us (with skills and experience) who experienced the Kelly system for its entirety and are reaching 20-25 years now will not stick around to benefit from the changes.
It is no small wonder Bratton's team had no time to make changes to do the promotional process. In many ways, it is just human nature. No supervisor cares about the promotional process after they themselves are promoted. It will be the same on this board after the list comes out.
To those of you who do get this promotion, I hope you remember this experience as being a bad thing for the NYPD and that you try to do something in the future to help change it. To those of you still new on this job, try not to be so discouraged. I think things have a chance to change for the better.
