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Maybe this will finally be the Department's wake up call to actually call in professional test writers to create promotional examinations. I don't know of any other institution where job opportunity and promotion is linked simply to 8 months of memorization of fluff. That people are asked to give up their families for months just to have a chance to pass a test is ludicrous. Those "lucky" enough not to have family responsibilities have a clear advantage in that off duty they have the time to study * hours a day. I don't begrudge these MOS. I think it's great that they are so dedicated that they want to succeed, but there has to be way to even the playing field a little for those who have to change diapers and feed babies, etc. The worst (the ones I do begrudge) are those who study on job time as your co-workers wind up doing the work you were supposed to do. End result - promotion of slackers. I feel a professional testing service needs to be brought in to find a solution - one that will take the personalities out of the testing (it seems many are complaining that a certain captain had some type of vendetta - if true---that's entirely unacceptable). What's would be wrong with writing a trick-free test that everyone could pass? Let the MOS bring in their Patrol Guides like electricians are allowed to bring in the Electrical Code. ..Those most prepared get higher list numbers...easy....Tell the applicants that only the top x00 plus ties will be eligible for promotion- the way it used to be...It wasn't broken then. It is broken now.
I don't think a question with a real world/every day scenario existed in this exam. Without getting into specifics I started to laugh out loud when I read some these questions. There was one where the CO asks the Lt for recommendations about a Pct condition and in the stem of the question we are told that the Lt is TOLD TO REVIEW related procedures prior to giving the CO an answer. Yet, you have 3 minutes to answer here and no procedures to "review" - just your memorization.
I don't know about you guys but I do like it when the boss knows the answer to a question I have when I need an answer on an important job. However, if my boss asks me to review procedures and get back to him/her then I will make that effort to review them. I won't just try to dazzle him with my rote Rain Man memorization skills. When my guys give me a quick answer I usually follow up with my own question about how they got that answer. To trust an answer without verifying is also irresponsible.
I am more impressed with a supervisor who takes time out to find the right answer to an important question. If my guys make a big arrest we still look in the penal law to get the right charges. Of course, we have a clue what the charges will be, but we don't rely on our memorization of the penal law. To do so would be irresponsible and stupid.
End of rant...Probably the wrong forum for this post. Sorry---good luck future lieutenants, captains and above!!!! If you ever achieve a position where you could influence a change, please care enough to do something about it. Some really good supervisors are being shut out of advancement by this system.
I feel like us as sgts and for the police officer's on the last exam should take a position to protest these type of exams... This is crazy how someone can study all the material and you use different tactics everytime to set us up for failure. Many of us walked out yesterday confused and distraught. At some point it is too much time and money being spent for them to ask you things you don't need to know. This was a lieut exam and they asked maybe 5 lieut duties.. I also don't understand how dcas can keep giving these research questions and throw them out based on how many ppl they want to make the list. It is unfair and what if you have the ones right that they throw out then you are failing now smh. I am so disappointed in the city, dcas and the job. It is not about who studies or knows what to do out there it is about who picks the better answer by guessing on the exam...
Great post Mud. I agree with you. Before this recent wave of tests, I was always been a big supporter of these exams. The material tested might not be particularly relevant and they certainly do not measure your skills as a leader. However, they were objective. If you studied hard, you did well. The more you studied, the better you did. There was no hooks, politics or subjective material someone could skew and corrupt to serve their own ends. No system is perfect but, if nothing else, it was fair. It appears those days are gone.
Some folks have alluded to this already and I hate to say it but I truly think this is a new norm. I was very well prepared for a 'normal' test. I studied hard for 8 months. I'm a pretty solid tester too. I actually wanted this test to be on the tough side because, you know what, I put in the work and I think it would've given an edge to myself and all the other people who hit it hard too. We earned it.
For me to perform well on a this test, I think I would've had to be studying, full on, a year+ out. That's just to get the PG down pat to the level they were questioning it. To be honest, my biggest criticism of this test is reserved for the PG questions. Taken in total, they were monsters. That's what made the test very hard. All the other areas they hit which are not traditionally measured added an element of arbitrariness. The in-basket added a healthy pinch of cruelty. It all added up to a **** sandwich.
Whether you take a class or do it alone, you have to prioritize. There's too much information. The only other option is giving everything equal time and memorizing it. That would take years! I know FD does it but this job isn't FD. Just how much of our time are we supposed to invest in these exams? How many people reading this think that much sacrifice and effort is worth it? More importantly (and frightening), how many want to work for the personality type who thinks it is worth it? I sure as hell don't!
This isn't sour grapes talking. I am glad I got promoted and I hope the statistical God's smile on me and I manage to pass this too. Still, to be honest, I was much happier as a cop than I ever was as a boss. I'm only doing it for the money. If this is what it is going to take to get that money, then it isn't worth it for me. Win, lose or draw this is it for me. The job finally broke me.
BTW-None of this would matter if there were no 70 rule. On an easy test you could get a 95 and be 400 on the list. On this one you could get a 69 and be 150. I suspect the line will cut out a huge percentage of testers who deserve to be on the list. It wont be for a lack of effort on their part either. That's a crime!
A lot of us are with you A House. It's ironic. Being a boss doesn't make you competent, intelligent or a good person (CLEARLY!!! - LOLOL). Nonetheless, and I am painting with a very broad brush, the folks who are willing put forth the effort to advance via these tests possess the characteristics organizations desire in employees (drive, work ethic , etc.). Leave it to the job to do the opposite and kick these these people in the balls! It's actually pretty funny when you think about it (although I'm not laughing for some reason). This test will live a permanent scar on a lot of good people.
All the companies need to start giving Trimester or "Rewrites" that are a full 120 questions. Yes, only 100 count but on test day now we get a full 120.
Elite used T/F for the cram. They only used T/F otherwise to review the last week's material during the long class. Otherwise, the regular class was chock full of long-form questions. That includes the online assessments. Between the booklets, the trimester exams and the online assessments for the full class there had to be 1,500 or so long-form questions. The testers practically cut and pasted some of them. I wish they cut and pasted a lot more. lolol
That 5-week cram was great as a review if you took the long class but as a stand alone I don't think it did folks much good. Almost all of the questions were T/F and I agree they are useless. If it makes you feel better, I answered every question they threw at me for eight months often multiple times. Even for the PG portion of the test, it didn't win me a passing score as of this writing. As challenging as the questions were, the test was far tougher. It's insanity.
You can't blame the classes. They were preparing for another Hurricane Sandy. Unfortunately, It snowed 20 ft instead. How can they predict that? This one is on the job and the city. The test shouldn't be about building a better mouse trap or erasing the advantage earned by people who put a lot of sweat and effort to succeed. Whether it was intentional or not, that's what the 2011, the 2013 Capt's test and now this debacle did. It's wrong but it's not Elite/Key/Rising Stars' fault. Failing to teach to the test is not in their business interest. For all we know, they'll adjust their approach and the next exam will be 50% psychological profiling. It's arbitrary and absurd.
BTW - No, I am not affiliated with any of these schools in any way.
Maybe this will finally be the Department's wake up call to actually call in professional test writers to create promotional examinations.
Probably the wrong forum for this post. Sorry---good luck future lieutenants, captains and above!!!! If you ever achieve a position where you could influence a change, please care enough to do something about it. Some really good supervisors are being shut out of advancement by this system.
Mud Duck: no need to be sorry brother, this is the correct forum for this post. I agree with the points you have made. However, its up to us to come together and voice our concerns so that the department can wake up and hear our call.
No offense to my brothers and sisters who also commented on this post, but this particular post was not to dispute any of the elite's true or false questions, nor was it to dispute any of the questions that any of the classes offered. What MAD DUCK was trying to express, is that the questions that should be disputed were the questions that were given to us on exam day.
This entire process should be re-evaluated; the non- realistic questions that we were asked as well as the people who write the exams. Those who partake in writing these exams should be re-evaluated and realistic questions pertaining to the job and rank you are trying to obtain should be asked instead instead of the nonsense we saw on this exam.
From my understanding, one of the people in charge of writing this exam was dismissed from the NYC Police Department, sued the department, then got back on the job. Of course such person would have a vendetta against the department. Of course such person would be out to screw the department. With that said, that alone is a conflict of interest to be in a position to be involved with any process of writing such exam.
Bottom line is exams like this are screwing potentially great supervisors & great leaders. In turn, not only is this a lost for the City of NY but this is not moving in the direction "for the better of the department".
