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Semp1 · Guru

Today shocked me a bit

ondeeair2321 · Guru

News I got today kinda shocked me. Yes. They are kicking about a cut. Highly unlikely. But it is being discussed. Don't kill the messenger. It is not confirmed as many here like to sAy. But it has been coming up lately, from higher ups. some want to activate new sgt list in april. My buddy said its been bounced around a lot. That's all I was told. If I get more I ll post.

whatsinthebox · Veteran Member

ondeeair2321 wrote:
News I got today kinda shocked me. Yes. They are kicking about a cut. Highly unlikely. But it is being discussed. Don't kill the messenger. It is not confirmed as many here like to sAy. But it has been coming up lately, from higher ups. some want to activate new sgt list in april. My buddy said its been bounced around a lot. That's all I was told. If I get more I ll post.

I was always under the impression that a list had four years to be exhausted by law. Is that not true?

mjehangir96 · Senior Member

Don't think so, by law and rules of DCAS it's active for one year but the police commissioner evolves it an extension every year till four years are completed. Historically, no list have been cut after one year or gone past four years. I don't think people should worry too much because the city would not chance cutting this list earlier than the other lists and open themselves up with the lawsuits.

Rail1980 · Veteran Member

Did they say around why list number they would want to cut it. Don't think you can sue over list being cut! I though from day 1 that list wouldn't make it past 75 score

Rail1980 · Veteran Member

The higher ups from where?

stiggityone · Guru

HAS to stay active one year....CAN stay active a maximum of 4. Basically, anytime after a year of being active they can cut it (and no I'm not saying this list will be cut, just summarizing the civil service law)

queensfinest · Senior Member

Thats weird my friend is a boss at emd and he says that he has hears nothing about that.

Su Madre 24 · Guru

I'm surprised a buncha people haven't posted yet. I'm guessing many arent up. Lol

That guy · Member

What's the precedent for dcas cutting lists? I know it all falls on pd whether the list gets cut, but have any lists (fd, dsny) that have a 70 passing score been cut in favor of a new list? Not saying it would work, but it does seem like it could bring up a potential lawsuit (people passed the test, and pd gave a new test early knowing they would cut the old one. If they didn't want to promote the entire list, then slow down hiring to make it last 4 years). Yeah; wishful thinking, I know.

Wanabmade · Senior Member

Brat had said over and over again that she thinks the list will NOT be cut.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Here we go, when people that do actually know what they are talking about post historical information on what has happened to large promotional lists in the past, they will jumped on for spreading true factual information some just simply don't want to hear...

2006,2007,2008,2009 had lists that varied between 300+ to 800+ names, short lists where everyone eligible and not jammed up or lacking college got made.

But before those lists there was no "70 passing grade", what they used to do is just establish lists based on taking the top scorers and comprising a large list they they may or not make everyone. Example in 2003 there was a Sgt and a Lt exam, one had a "passing score" of 58 to make the list, the other was an 81!!! Extreme differences and there was no rhyme or reason I can see other than enough eligible people would be on these lists.

The last exam to "get cut" was the 2006 Lt exam, it was cut after 4 full years and there appeared to be somewhat of a slowdown on promotions for awhile on it where people were expecting it to get cut due to expiration of 4 years and a very large list where everyone on it scored better than a 70. So I know people will say, "It wasn't cut, it expired!!!". True, but that 70 passing score thing doesn't mean a thing, about 500 people died on that list and scored well over a 70 or "passed".

The last Sgt exam to get cut was 2003, it was established in Spring of 2005 and was cut in the Fall of 2006 and once established actually moved at a pretty good rate with over 1100 people getting promoted in about a year and a half of the list being established. The raw score to make the list was an embarrassing 58!!! Before that, the previous 2 lists before that were cut short too, neither lasted a full 4 years. There was a Sgt's list in the late 1990's where everyone got made and it was a large list, but that was the exception, not the norm. The norm was to cut large lists.

I have not heard anything on the current list as I am not in the know or have friends in offices that hear things. All I am saying is no one should be shocked or outraged if there is a cut. They are not even halfway through this list yet and another Sgt exam is being given next month. It could happen where they hold off establishing the new Sgt list for a couple of years. That actually did happen to the 2009 exam, but I wouldn't count on it.

stiggityone · Guru

It shouldn't be that big of a concern. I'm sure when the bottom few hundred saw the announcement of a new exam...they used common sense and studied for it just in case. Or instead of studying...they just relied on the optimistic opinions of other rookies on a message board who don't know a thing. Brat is the only one with legit info...but when she says the list won't get cut, she's giving you her opinion...not fact. No one knows for sure. And prior to '06, lists were routinely cut. There is no basis for a lawsuit. If you're worried about getting cut, give yourself an insurance policy and cram for this upcoming test.

Semp1 · Guru

Same percentage passed that have been for the most part. 2009 had 4000 take it with around 750 passing. More than double Took it and only 1663 passed which means less ppeople essentially passed based on how many took or signed up for this exam. The 2011 was no easier or straight forward then the 2009 also expect a very similar exam in 2013 the same test is essentially given every time with a curve ball every now an d then thrown in that usually will get thrown out. To say this test was any easier or straight forward then the 2009 test which was so straight forward it had I believe only one double answer is silly.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Wednesday 4th of September 2013 10:28:45 PM

sgt2be · Guru

Shotsfired wrote:
It's because we work with a bunch of immature weirdos that have nothing better to do than feed false negative info. Those are the ones that need to go back to their high school locker that they use to get shoved into daily and go away.
because the information provided doesnt fit your wants that makes us immature?? last time i checked, taking every single possibility into account and making a sound decision based on that information would be called being an adult. I hope i dont have to come on here and here ppl b*tch and complain about how the job screwed everyone over by possibly cutting the list. Grow up and learn to take everything into perspective.

-- Edited by sgt2be on Thursday 5th of September 2013 12:02:32 AM

brat4914 · Guru

Why stig says is true.......I don't KNOW......neither does anyone else. I feel it is HIGHLY unlikely.......if I had to bet $$ I would say it does NOT get cut.......but only ONE person on his job knows what will happen, and even for him to make such a discussion, it's too soon. They haven't even given the new test yet.

sgt2be · Guru

Shotsfired wrote:
Guy, relax. You are a tool and you have nothing better to do than spread info that you know nothing about. Take a hike

are you done crying yet? actually im that guy who doesnt need to sweat anything and well be sitting for the next lt test....guess i cant say the same about you. You spread the same info with no clue about what you are talking bout. So thats sgt guy to officer.

-- Edited by sgt2be on Thursday 5th of September 2013 01:11:45 AM

BxPogiBoy · Veteran Member

i can see the whole list being made if they hold on to the 2011 exam like they did with the 2009 sgt exam. A buddy of mine who was promoted from the 2009 exam told me it took nearly a year and a half for the FIRST BMOC class to go in after the 2009 exam was given.

Shotsfired · Guru

Exactly and that's what's gonna happen this time around. The list whole list will be made.

Shotsfired · Guru

The whole list will get made* stupid iPhone.

Wanabmade · Senior Member

Why would the list be cut? Someone explain why that would make sense? Why cut a list, only to establish a new list? There's no logic in that to me. Hey, the only time I've heard about this list being cut is from this forum and its usually been from the trolls. Is it possible, yea sure why not. Seems more likely the entire list will be promoted. That's my hope anyway. We've all worked hard enough to pass, spend money on classes... Hope it pans out. It really should. Lets look at how to list moves the next 6 months or so. After April, if the list is still moving, that should be a much better indication. Still waiting my turn.. Hope for the best.

That guy · Member

2 easy reasons I can think of to cut:
1. "Cream of the crop"
2. Money. More cuts means more people paying $80+ for dcas fees ln the next test given out.

I'm sure there are more reasons.

sgt2be · Guru

Wanabmade wrote:
Why would the list be cut? Someone explain why that would make sense? Why cut a list, only to establish a new list? There's no logic in that to me. Hey, the only time I've heard about this list being cut is from this forum and its usually been from the trolls. Is it possible, yea sure why not. Seems more likely the entire list will be promoted. That's my hope anyway. We've all worked hard enough to pass, spend money on classes... Hope it pans out. It really should. Lets look at how to list moves the next 6 months or so. After April, if the list is still moving, that should be a much better indication. Still waiting my turn.. Hope for the best.

simple really...the commissioner may feel that a list containing 1600 ppl with such a straight forward test shouldn't be around for the entire time and have ppl who got 70's on it promoted. In the end, i have said it from the beginning, you have a unique situation that has NEVER happened! You have a test which has produced a list this large while the passsing grade of 70 system has been implemented! This is new and uncharted territory. You will either have the list be made or you will have the list be cut. Really simple as that, this test will predict future lists, which may produce such high number of passing grades.

Shotsfired · Guru

"Cream of the crop"? What planet are you on?! Are you even on this job? This job doesnt care about "cream of the crop" people. Just look at a lot of the zeros on this job! You have people in all diff units on this job that do not deserve to be there. There are bosses on this job that got high greats and they are terrible bosses. This job hires great people and a lot of people that wouldn't last 6 sec in another police dept.

Shotsfired · Guru

Grades*

sgt2be · Guru

Shotsfired wrote:
"Cream of the crop"? What planet are you on?! Are you even on this job? This job doesnt care about "cream of the crop" people. Just look at a lot of the zeros on this job! You have people in all diff units on this job that do not deserve to be there. There are bosses on this job that got high greats and they are terrible bosses. This job hires great people and a lot of people that wouldn't last 6 sec in another police dept.

bro you asked for a reason, you got one. Funny how my boro is doing one job at a time for sector cars! if i told you tp predict that last month youd prob say will never happen. Obviously you must not be on MY JOB bc the one thing i learned about this job is that it can change in a heart beat.

Wanabmade · Senior Member

There were a lot of people that took this test. I'm not surprised 1600 people passed this test.

That guy · Member

Shotsfired wrote:
"Cream of the crop"? What planet are you on?! Are you even on this job? This job doesnt care about "cream of the crop" people. Just look at a lot of the zeros on this job! You have people in all diff units on this job that do not deserve to be there. There are bosses on this job that got high greats and they are terrible bosses. This job hires great people and a lot of people that wouldn't last 6 sec in another police dept.

Relax. You know as well as i do that this job is all a show. Just look at the cargo pants rumors spreading around. The job cares more about its public image than 400 or so cops who passed an easy test with a barely passing grade... and i say that as one of those barely passed!

sgt2be · Guru

That guy wrote:
Shotsfired wrote:
"Cream of the crop"? What planet are you on?! Are you even on this job? This job doesnt care about "cream of the crop" people. Just look at a lot of the zeros on this job! You have people in all diff units on this job that do not deserve to be there. There are bosses on this job that got high greats and they are terrible bosses. This job hires great people and a lot of people that wouldn't last 6 sec in another police dept.
Relax. You know as well as i do that this job is all a show. Just look at the cargo pants rumors spreading around. The job cares more about its public image than 400 or so cops who passed an easy test with a barely passing grade... and i say that as one of those barely passed!

with all respect guys, its not a knock to anyone who got a 70 on the test. The point i make is simple, if you dont think the list can be cut then youre just out of your mind. It can happen! However small of a possibility it may be, you are simply an idiot for thinking it will never/can never happen. The smart ppl were the ones at the end of the list who are studying and planning on taking this october list. However difficult it may be to grasp, id rather be that guy who studied another 6 months when not needing it then be the guy who has to wait another test if the list gets cut.

Salt-ness · Senior Member

Wow this topic hasn't been beaten to death

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Well its probably the most important topic of this exam. It will set new precedent in some ways. Cutting a list that doesn't last 4 full years with the "70 passing score" has not happened yet simply bc so few people up until now passed since the 70 mandate. It used just be take the top scorers, make a list, then cut a list and replace it with a new list. Based on how many people they wanted on a list and how the test takers did determined what "passing" would be.

So maybe if DCAS did this exam like the way they used to, take the top scorers and only get into scores of like I dunno 75 or better and cut the rest? Who knows. It will be interesting though whatever happens, but I have been saying since day1 of this large list, if you are among the bottom few hundred, you probably should take next months exam to hedge your bets.

Even though many called the last exam "easy", remember roughly 10,000 people took it and only about 1600+ passed. Thats still a very high percentage of people failing on an "easy" exam. But a significantly higher percentage of people passed this last exam than the 2006, 2007, 2008, or 2009, so by that standard maybe it wasn't quite as difficult, but I am not sure if I would go as far to call it "easy".

Salt-ness · Senior Member

It's going to be upto the next police commissioner and his new reshime.

PatrolGuideismyBible · Guru

Semp1, I do not know how many filed for the 2009 exam, but I would bet the house it was significantly more than 4000. You are correct that more people filed for the 2011 exam than any other exam in recent years, but its nowhere near as lopsided as you make it out to be. I think it was nearly 10,000 for 2011 exam, with nearly 1700 "passing" thats about 17% pass rate.

Lets say recent exams had I dunno about 7000-8000 each time. Don't know if that is true or not, but lets say thats rough the number. Every one of them would have have a pass percentage well below 10%, except maybe the 2009 exam, it might have cracked 10% passing. That means usually more than 9 outta every 10 that file for the exam do not pass it... except now it was more than 4 out of 5 failed the last one.

brat4914 · Guru

Salt-ness wrote:
Wow this topic hasn't been beaten to death

Because NOT beating it to death would NOT provide any drama......people, especially cops.....love drama......how incredibly undramatic would it be if they made the whole list?

Shotsfired · Guru

It's because we work with a bunch of immature weirdos that have nothing better to do than feed false negative info. Those are the ones that need to go back to their high school locker that they use to get shoved into daily and go away.

Shotsfired · Guru

Guy, relax. You are a tool and you have nothing better to do than spread info that you know nothing about. Take a hike

Shotsfired · Guru

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! "Sgt guy to you" wow could you be more of complete loser?! I wonder what command you work for?? I'm sure none of the cops respect you. You passed a 100 question test. Relax

sgt2be · Guru

Shotsfired wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! "Sgt guy to you" wow could you be more of complete loser?! I wonder what command you work for?? I'm sure none of the cops respect you. You passed a 100 question test. Relax

brooklyn north buddy....enjoy waiting douche to get promoted...next time study alil harder and maybe ill see you at the lt bmoc.

Wanabmade · Senior Member

Just a waiting game, I say, just stay positive and hope for the best. I think the list is fine and will get made.

Shotsfired · Guru

I'm a Det in bk south, clown. ITs so funny when do nothings on this job become bossese. Embarrassing

PROVE IT · Veteran Member

you wear your rank for about 9 hours a day...for about 5 days a week. after that your back to whatever life you live. Most important thing about rank is $$$. That should be everyones incentive to be promoted....not to tell cops. etc what to do bc you passed a test

sgt2be · Guru

Shotsfired wrote:
I'm a Det in bk south, clown. ITs so funny when do nothings on this job become bossese. Embarrassing

ur a moron. The only thing i have said is the list CAN be cut. SIMPLE FACT. Think your a big shot because youre a detective?? woah good for u. You have the same attitude as half the detectives on this job. Think they know it all. Too bad for you this job did promote me. Guess what? ill be promoted to lt and then to captain too. I dont need ur approval or anyone elses. You dont like reading what i have to say then stay off the forum. Until then i guess this do nothing will keep rising in the ranks.

-- Edited by sgt2be on Thursday 5th of September 2013 02:20:32 PM

sgt2be · Guru

Iwearpumas wrote:
Can't we all just get along?

i dont have a problem with anyone. The fact that ppl on this job only want to hear what they want to hear. I never said this list was def getting cut. But like patrolguideismybible stated, its a real possibility. Instead, ppl on here just want to come on and act like they know it all. Either the lists gets cut, or it doesnt! two possibilities! just so you know, when i went to phase 5 training last year, the BMOC instructors thought the list would be cut. Their opinion, guess were all do nothings then for voicing an opinion on something that may or may not happen.

-- Edited by sgt2be on Thursday 5th of September 2013 02:46:30 PM

ondeeair2321 · Guru

i think so too. just saying that's what I was given. the powers that be now are mulling it around. will it happen???? I have nooooo idea. Kelly s whole crew is kicking it around and it will be up to the new crew. kellys crew is LEAVING. what I was told is that they are thinking of implementing that new list in april. that is all. I get no kicks out of freaking people out. trust me.

AirborneGuy · Senior Member

PROVE IT wrote:
you wear your rank for about 9 hours a day...for about 5 days a week. after that your back to whatever life you live. Most important thing about rank is $$$. That should be everyones incentive to be promoted....not to tell cops. etc what to do bc you passed a test

More people on this job need to grasp this concept. It's been my guiding mantra so far and will be until I retire. More than half-way there and it hasn't failed me yet, neither at work or at home.

Semp1 · Guru

PatrolGuideismyBible wrote:
Semp1, I do not know how many filed for the 2009 exam, but I would bet the house it was significantly more than 4000. You are correct that more people filed for the 2011 exam than any other exam in recent years, but its nowhere near as lopsided as you make it out to be. I think it was nearly 10,000 for 2011 exam, with nearly 1700 "passing" thats about 17% pass rate.

Lets say recent exams had I dunno about 7000-8000 each time. Don't know if that is true or not, but lets say thats rough the number. Every one of them would have have a pass percentage well below 10%, except maybe the 2009 exam, it might have cracked 10% passing. That means usually more than 9 outta every 10 that file for the exam do not pass it... except now it was more than 4 out of 5 failed the last one.

Incorrect it was less then 5,000. I believe the actual number was 4,500 in 2009. Which puts the passing rate around 18.5% in 2009. And in 2011 based on your numbers of filing it's below 18% more people based on filing passed the 09 test.

-- Edited by Semp1 on Thursday 5th of September 2013 09:23:36 PM

Iwearpumas · Senior Member

Can't we all just get along?

Mattinglyfan · Veteran Member

For those of us towards the bottom my list # is 120x. What makes our 76 grades less cream of the crop than those who got a 70 on the '09 test and got promoted. My hopes are that the job does the right thing, we all busted our butt and passed a competitive exam. We shouldn't be penalized by a large list because so many took it. I know people have said there is no legal basis to sue but how can you tell me earlier tests people could get promoted with grades in the 60's. You have established a passing grade to stop that from happening.

Rail1980 · Veteran Member

List will go to at least 75! Everyone has to relax and let's just hope they have 3 classes in row to end year

stiggityone · Guru

You're right about people passing in the 60s being pathetic...but the last time that happened was on the 2003 Sgt's exam. That list is what led to the "70 rule". You had guys with a raw score of 58 who got promoted after military, seniority, etc were added. Embarrassing. Having said that...comparing that test with the 2011 test is a weak argument. You're comparing one of the most difficult sgt exams ever given with one if the easiest. Apples and oranges. Truth might hurt..but the fact of the matter is...if you got 25 or more questions wrong on this test...you didn't study that hard. Lesson learned.
P.S. did someone spell "regime" as "reshime"? Yowza!