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I am weighing the pros and cons of taking the Lt exam. I'm am currently a Sgt with a decent commute and a decent gig with steady days. I always hear Lts complain about not having chart days, but how does it break appearance wise? A regular platoon commander vs a regular sgt on patrol vs a sgt with steady days off and chart days? Any insight would be appreciated.
i mull it over all the time. But when push comes to shove, LTS can give back the rank. But it rarely happens!!!why? bc in the end its more money and less people you have to answer to. In the end, losing the chart days def blows! BUT, chart days dont pay my bills. Yes they give me days off, but in the end its all about the pension and the numbers! Sgt on patrol makes 7 chart days a year. Plus the 3 day swings! so youre talking about losing 30 + days! BUTTTTTT, is life as a LT easier?? i say YES! compstat def blows, but its one day! If you know how to talk and you will learn very quickly, can you really say the LT rank isnt worth it??
This is the deal, you're going to give back all your chart days as a Lt. After 5 years in rank you get 1, after 6 I think 2(?) and at 7 years in rank I think you finally top out at 7 chart days a year.(I might be wrong on the numbers, but I know they're not too far off). You're also gonna give back your 3-day swings. So, a Sgt on Patrol before 5 years in rank gets 7 chart days on top of their 3-day swings. Once they hit 5 years in rank, they get 3 more chart days. So for a 5-year patrol Sgt you'll have your 3-day swings + 10 chart days per year. The same thing goes for a Sgt in a detail with steady days... Until 5 years in rank you'll accrue 27 chart days per year, then after 5 you'll get a solid 30 chart days(or, 6 weeks). Life can be tough if your a midnight Lt with Sunday/Monday night RDO's, especially if you don't have some days on the books to help out. So in terms of appearances alone, The Sgt rank blows the Lt rank out of the water... But, the nice thing about being a Lt is if you've got 2 or 3 Sgts in, you can let them do the supervising and hang back until you're... 'needed'. The other side of the coin to that is, how often will you have the extra Sgts around, because of vacations, chart days, court, training etc?...... Also, the general rule of thumb seems to be the higher you go in rank, the less OT you'll get. As a Lt instead of being responsible for a squad, you'll be responsible for a platoon. You'll be expected to know everything about the platoon. That will range from high-crime areas on your tour(and how you're addressing those conditions) to cops who are performing poorly... Even more responsibility now as a Lt. Don't forget you'll also be going to Compstat, which I hear is a great time. Now, in terms of details... Sgt's have more available to them than Lts, Pct-level and outside of the Pct. Just take a look at your command. SOL, Admin Lt, ICO. Sergeants have Conditions#1, Conditions#2, SNEU, Crime, Asst ICO, Summons Sgt, Training Sgt, DV Sgt.... etc.... And, dont forget you've got to go thru Lt if you want to go all the way, a top-pay Captain makes a boatload of money at top pay, without needing to depend on OT. And they also seem to have the ability to accrue quite a bit of time on the books also, just in case your looking to retire early. But with that comes terrible days off, and lots of administrative headaches and pressure. On a side-note, the SBA seems to be the best union I've seen on this Job. Whatever the case it's not an easy decision, but it's only you that can make it. Also, don't forget... Everything is subject to change. From new contracts and deals in the future, anything can change.... Now, figure it out.
"Yeah you go to Compstat but it's only one day"... You're forgetting about borostat, platoon commander meetings, Trafficstat..and if you're an SOL... Grafittistat, boro Grafittistat, Domstat, and SOL meetings.
"IF"............."IF"............"IF"..............you have no idea what you will be doing..............so many people don't advance because of all the "IFs"..............you will grow into the rank and you will like it...............HALF of the Lts on the job could retire right now, do you think they stay because it's a bad rank?..............I think not !!
As a sgt, many make rediculous amounts of charts days..............start saving them..............stop taking useless days off and keep them for the future, just like a bank. Make it work for you. It is worth it.
Lt rank Hands down. You get pretty much whatever day off you want, plus you have to go over numbers, review trends, prep for meetings... That's all time overtime. In a busy command you can make a day a week if you do it right. For me, whenever this next LT test comes up its a no brainer. I got a bad commute, and a regular crap gig. It can't get any worse. What if I pass im a Lt with a crap gig and crap commute worst case scenario.
At this point I'd like to just get promoted to Sgt some time this year. I'm in the 890's. I feel like thinking about lieutenant at this stage of the game is putting the cart before the horse.
-- Edited by skellbox on Monday 8th of April 2013 05:58:44 PM
I'll def. be taking the LT test, but I also know you are in the academy, right? I'm sure you work hard, and are under a microscope, but I know a few LTs on patrol who are under constant stress, dealing with psycho COs who blame them for everything on their platoon, and have to deal with idiot Sgts who can't make a decision, (Sgts have this prob too with cops.) The grass isn't always greener on the other side, and I think it really depends on the assignment, rather thant he rank in some instances.
Lt rank Hands down. You get pretty much whatever day off you want, plus you have to go over numbers, review trends, prep for meetings... That's all time overtime. In a busy command you can make a day a week if you do it right. For me, whenever this next LT test comes up its a no brainer. I got a bad commute, and a regular crap gig. It can't get any worse. What if I pass im a Lt with a crap gig and crap commute worst case scenario.
Where I work, getting a day off for a Sgt is 10x easier, than if you are a LT. Depends on where you work.
yes - i do work at the academy - and yes i do work very hard. It is a case by case basis on deciding to take any rank, but the $$ is at a higher rank as well as more respect and a chance for professional and personal growth.........this job gives you the opportunity to advance w/o waiting for them to recognize and promote you............give yourself a promotion, give yourself a raise........all the other good things will follow.......i promise.........take yourself out of your comfort zone and moving up will work out for you in the end.
yes - i do work at the academy - and yes i do work very hard. It is a case by case basis on deciding to take any rank, but the $$ is at a higher rank as well as more respect and a chance for professional and personal growth.........this job gives you the opportunity to advance w/o waiting for them to recognize and promote you............give yourself a promotion, give yourself a raise........all the other good things will follow.......i promise.........take yourself out of your comfort zone and moving up will work out for you in the end.
Which all makes sense, and I've been a Sgt now for almost a year, and as with that promotion, I had to leave my comfort zone as a cop.
case by case again........for me, no, but I can leave any time.
For those who have to be here anyway, the argurement could be made either way.......too many variables to discuss in a short paragraph..........if it will work for you then sure, if not, then no.
My old sgt. told me that chart days are not pensionable. At the end of the day, a person has to decide if the loss of days, loss in benefits in return for a larger salary which means a larger pension is worth it. If you are happy where you are and things are really good, I don't think it's worth it. The loss of chart days in and in itself would make me not want to make LT. But if you have it really good, I am not so sure that making LT is worth it.
A promotion means more money and more responsibility. So what if you have to go to a stupid meeting once in a while and get yelled at? You can laugh all the way to the bank.
Vision is the same. Dental is the same reimbursement plan. Prescription plan is terrible especially if you need something for which a generic isn't available.
dental the same (i use the one selected dentist who covers all).........vision (the same).........prescriptions (barely use any so i cant really tell you)...............and i dont know about spousal and/or children benefits at all
A promotion means more money and more responsibility. So what if you have to go to a stupid meeting once in a while and get yelled at? You can laugh all the way to the bank.
Sometimes thats easier said then done. At least for me, I wish I had that type of personality to be able to do that.
Went from a sgt with steady days off and flexible tours to the 1st platoon commander with only two squad sgts in a busy house were getting a day off has been like pulling teeth, with that said I still wouldn't turn down the rank but if your sole purpose is to make more and do less your misguided
Que1999 is pretty close to the chart days of Lt. Actually it's 1 chart day after 3 years, 2 after 4 years, 3 after 5 years, 4 after 6 years and your full alotment after 7 years (I believe it's 16 or so). As far as the rank, I see a lot of positive comments. I've been a Lt for 3 years strictly as a platoon commander. I tell you that the responsibility of that position has changed. You are held STRICTLY accountable for police officer's activity (or lack there of). The CO will question you about EVERYTHING on your platoon, but his main concern is what you are doing to increase productivity (activity). I've been to compstat, and boro platoon commander meetings and you'll be grilled about activity, and what you are doing about "low performers". No one wants to hear that it was a slow, cold, snowy, month. So just prepare yourself to be the CO's bully and make cops "work" or place them on monitoring. This is my experience as a platoon commander. Someone mentioned doing admin work for overtime. Maybe it's that way where you work, but they are treating time like cash in my command. They are not signing off on that unless it's a 49. Communications and self inspections have to be done during your tour. So the loss of chart days are HUGE. You basically work a month and half more than a sgt for an additional $4000 a year. You actually make less money per hour than a sgt because of the loss of chart days. Youre working 45 minutes a day FOR FREE. Now, the good thing with the rank is that less than 1/2 of all lieutenants are platoon commanders. There are only 3 per command (usually). So get one of the other spots, or maybe become a squad CO. I think the rank may be a little more pleasurable there. For me, I need my schedule so I don't have many options. Sorry so long. Ps. LBA is the depts WORST union. SBA is the best, hands down
10-6, everything you wrote is indeed right on the money, I've heard the same from a couple of guys I knew that chose to stay Sergeants because of the facts you stated. But, to each his own, and I look forward in trying to advance my career as far as I can go. (I'd be perfectlt happy attaing up to the rank of Lieutenant )
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No way Sergeant is a better rank in a precinct. CO's are going after new Sgt's in commands, two were demoted in the past few months. Being the desk Sgt has gotten crazy with all of the things they want you account for, Lt's have it better.
Haha.. Midnight platoon commander. AKA the CO after midnight. Usually highest ranking guy in the building during the first platoon. You can dictate to anyone what needs to be done..but that would make you a dick. Don't be a dick.... :)
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