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NewNeverBorn · Member

Demand for sgts will remain constant, here is why.....

spartan85 · Senior Member

Despite rumors of less cops meaning less sgts, this isn't necessarily true. 1) there will always be 3 squads per platoon. Hence 3 sgts even with less cops in each squad. There will always be 3 platoons. Hence 9 sgts per patrol. There will always be a conditions/sneu/crime team. Even if the crime team is reduced from 5 cops to 3 still need a sgt. 2) occb. Less detectives per module...still need a sgt for each module. Each team might have 1 or 2 det less. Still need a for each team 3)impact slashed in half from 6 squads per irt unit To 3 squads....that's a loss of 3 sgts....that's 36 sgts for all patrol boroughs and transit/housing. Finally my point is that less cops means smaller squads/teams. But you need the same amount of bosses for each squad/team. Look at your own command as an example. You still have the same amount of bosses even though you have less cops don't you? Just less cops in each squad/team. Further more... Here is an assessment of the last 4 years of attrition. Classes of 900, 800, and 250 recruits were put in the acadamey. We also had classes canceled. Still we had 1800 sgts promoted. Finally... You will see the acadamey classes get bigger as time will progress. Have no fear people you will all get made...

Knight3100 · Senior Member

I know for a fact that both Brooklyn Narc. boros are hurting for Sgts. They just lost three Sgts. to the BMOC class that is presently in. If there is one more promotion off the 2006 Lts. List Brooklyn Narco. alone will lose another 4 Sgts. With the UMOS that are coming up to being eligiable to retire, I wonder if the numbers include those UMOS who were Housing or Transit
pre-merge.

supercop · Senior Member

and now let the trolls like HB and MexicanSgt begin there talking S h i t .

NewNeverBorn · Member

Bro, you are smoking too much of your product. I am shocked that you actually believe what you just posted.

HB · Senior Member

U obviously have no clue what u are talking about. The less cops there are the less bosses they need. In my cmd our crime and conditions teams are very small due to lack of cops. So they have one Sgt doing both teams. The impact in my cmd had 2 sgts per squad but are now down to 1 sgt per squad because the squads are much smaller. The amount of cops or lack there of does impact how many Sgts that are needed.

NewNeverBorn · Member

Same at my command. For the years we used to have two Sgts per squad but as of late the squads are doing with just one. This is the sign of the future, bro. Stop making believe an excess amount of sgts are needed when they are not.

spartan85 · Senior Member

Look at the poll troll. You can't have a sgt run 2 squads or 3 teams. That means they need more sgts!! Are you kidding me!!! You expect me to believe they are making sgts run multiple squads or special op teams???? How does that work? Do they do doubles or do they get RDO overtime to cover their other squad ? You need a sgt per team or squad or scooter charts wouldnt work. your a lier. You can't cover these lies they are so obvious. They combine squads!! Hahah that's Epic. Look at the poll nobody will agree with you. Next thing is the platoon commander will be a squad boss right???

spartan85 · Senior Member

Bull****. That never happened here. Why are they hiring so many sgts since 04 with that much attrition?? Your wrong. Look at numbers. Actual numbers. Look at position vacancies. **** load of sgt openings. Look at all the sgts being drafted. And keep an eye on the poll. If people are truthfull I'm confident it will show in it.

NewNeverBorn · Member

Seriously bro, I can not debate a person who obviously is not interested in doing the simple research needed to engage me in a simple exchange. Let me thank you now for your cander. with such a short attention span it will be a miracle if you ever make it out of BMOC. Let us pray that you just die on the list and spare the rest of the Sgts at your potential command.

gotabimer · Senior Member

supercop wrote:
and now let the trolls like HB and MexicanSgt begin there talking S h i t .

Hb aka mr.herb is a bigger troll than mr.mexicansgt

nycop80 · Guru

I can attest to doing more with less. Because i work in an impact command, and I am responsible for 32 cops, yes, You heard that right, 2 squads of 16.

stiggityone · Guru

What's a "herb"?

CryTwoSeven · Guru

At my command we have gotten more sgts than cops in the last 4 years lol. It's like 1 SGT for each 4-5 cops.

spartan85 · Senior Member

I scored higher than you idiot... I'm gonna make it. Don't worry troll... You started a thread with a question. You got an answer and you want to dispute the answer... Why ask the question to begin with if you think you know it all. I have the answer.. Its so you can start trouble. Now go troll elsewhere..Everyone will make it provided you don't get jammed up. Case closed.

spartan85 · Senior Member

What's your alias newneverborn?? I find it strange that you create a account just to ask a question that you feel you already know the answer to. Starting trouble are ????????

Nyccop80 if I'm not mistaken from your last post it sounds like you need MORE sgts. Don't worry the list is comming out soon and you will have someone to share the work load with.

Stay safe out there brother.

nycop80 · Guru

you are not mistaken spartan, my command is extremely short sgt's right now. 5 sgt's for 90 cops.

Nofurther · Veteran Member

u also forgot there is one command or commands has/have far more bosses than cops/det, and the majority of them are sgts. Guess what the command is?

spartan85 · Senior Member

Let's just throws LMSI in there and the building of the 121 precinct which is scheduled to open on time. That's an entire command of cops and bosses needed.

NewNeverBorn · Member

Spartan who are you kidding? You probably failed this last test like so many before it and you get your ****s and giggles coming here giving cops on the fringe of passing false hope. EVERYONE WILL GET MADE? Are you that retarded? In today's climate of dying lists and shrinking ranks you dare try and pedal that moob pie with a straight face. Get out of here with your B/S, rookie.

?

Yoyo718 · Veteran Member

NewNeverborn u are exposed u are mexicanSgt with a new name. Its funny bc he has been quiet and now u are here. TROLL

Knight3100 · Senior Member

With all the bad press thats been going on, do you think that the department is going to cut back further on supervision ?

2Hashmarks · Senior Member

I agree with spartan85. My command has 2 crime teams 2 conditions teams and a snue team each with its own sgt. On top of that we have 2 intell sgts and a traffic sgt , training sgt , Comstat sgt , 2 impact sgt and that's not even counting patrol sgts to wich some of our squads have 2 sgts

gotabimer · Senior Member

stiggityone wrote:
What's a "herb"?

HB=HerB:(1)on the street a supid person (2)on the internet)a geek or a dork.(3)

-- Edited by gotabimer on Sunday 11th of March 2012 08:58:58 AM

-- Edited by gotabimer on Sunday 11th of March 2012 11:11:31 AM

CaballoRage3000 · Senior Member

Yeah I remember at my cmd 73 we had 2 sgts per sqd now its one but also now theres like 5 impact sgts when back in 05-06 there were only 2 or 3

nycop80 · Guru

my command has 5 impact sgts for 90 cops, it is not enough, at given day we have 2 sgts working with 35-40 cops.

skellbox · Veteran Member

Lol... Herb!!! I haven't heard that **** since high school in the late 90's.

1063forLIFE · Veteran Member

I may not be the brightest, but 30 people answered this poll? And i dont know how because my answer is YES we have lost, NO we have not gained. And maybe im a troll :/

HB · Senior Member

gotabimer wrote:
stiggityone wrote:
What's a "herb"?

HB=HerB:(1)on the street a supid person (2)on the internet)a geek or a dork.(3)

-- Edited by gotabimer on Sunday 11th of March 2012 08:58:58 AM

-- Edited by gotabimer on Sunday 11th of March 2012 11:11:31 AM

U edited ur post twice and still failed to spell stupid right. What a azz.

Suntrust · Senior Member

1063forLIFE wrote:
I may not be the brightest, but 30 people answered this poll? And i dont know how because my answer is YES we have lost, NO we have not gained. And maybe im a troll :/

Lol Yes this poll had good intentions however it's wording is slightly off. Asking two questions at once. Regardless this job is short first line supervisors that's for sure. In my command you have patrol Sgts covering other tours for OT or doing doubles because there's not enough to cover the desk and do patrol.

NotASgtYet · Veteran Member

The word clueless twit comes to mind when I read Spartan's explanation. Another poster hit it on the head when he said that a dwindling head count means less supervisors needed. Far more people are retiring that can be replaced and you have the 90's program Safe City Safe Streets to thank for that. I too believe many people will die on this list. Why? The need for supervisors is not in high demand especially when one is speaking about 6K officers being eligible for retirement this year alone. The June 1992 and December 1992 classes were huge. Unless you tell me Bloomberg is hiring 5K replacements this year then your argument is null and void.

PerpetualParadeRest · Member

Prove you wrong? Jesus Christ, you just had a few posters prove you wrong and they have used logical information but like usual you dismiss it and fail to provide any counter information to prove them wrong. You are a little man who refuses to accept all possible outcomes. Seems like you scored a 73 and you are quite bitter.

Here is another piece of information for you to chew on, regurgitate and spit out like all the rest. The last Lt's test is about to be killed and many are about to die on that list. What makes you think that the Sgt's exam is immune to the same outcome. Like everyone has been preaching...HUGE RATE OF RETIREMENT WITH A PLAN OF ATTRITION IN PLACE= SMALL NEED FOR SGTS. You sir live in a world of total denial. Seek some help before you swallow a bullet upon getting the news you keep denying exists.

P.S I would not take advice from anyone who does not know how to spell. It is "RIGHT" and not "WRITE"....LOL!

-- Edited by PerpetualParadeRest on Tuesday 13th of March 2012 02:16:54 AM

PerpetualParadeRest · Member

Demand for sgts will remain constantly high? I think you are foolish to believe such a notion. Educate yourself before making such spontaneous utterances.

40RectorSt · Veteran Member

PerpetualParadeRest wrote:
Demand for sgts will remain constantly high? I think you are foolish to believe such a notion. Educate yourself before making such spontaneous utterances.

Just out of curiousity What are you educated in ? You know what the next four years will bring ? If so I got to say you got into the wrong profession. Stop stirring the pot we'll see what happens

PerpetualParadeRest · Member

Notasgtyet, thanks for eh support. Spartan is a clueless individuall who only believes in his reality. Any reality where he is made sgt is the only reality. He does not care about every aspect of being made. all he wants to hear is that everyone will be made with no exceptions. He strikes me as slightly off for not even considering the evidence at hand. He obviously failed math in school.

This imbecile obviously does not work on patrol for him to make these whack job assessments. At my precinct alone every squad is running at minumum manning. It is hard to get teh day off because we do not have enough cops. WAKE UP YOU TURD! In your perfect world there are endless amounts of Sgts supervising a skeleton crew. DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?

Do yourself a favor and get a real college degree before you jump to these ridiculous conclusions. When i say a real college degree I do not mean those internet classes you paid for.

-- Edited by PerpetualParadeRest on Tuesday 13th of March 2012 03:21:38 AM

PerpetualParadeRest · Member

40Rector, those who do not heed the lessons of the past will be forced to repeat them in the future. Many prior posters have tried to educate you by quoting events of the past. Case in point, the impending flood of retiring classes. For some odd reason some here believe that the ranks are not thinning at all thus perpetuating the belief that the need for new sgts is constant. Nothing can be further from the truth and yet for disagreeing with these idiotic notions some of us are classified as being some sort of scorcerers trying to predict the future. Sorry kid but these are the facts. The sooner you accept how things are developing the sooner you will realize that you have learned something.

just my two cents.

spartan85 · Senior Member

reread my post. An effect there will be, however it will not be so severe as to have a need to cut of a list. If every single squad on patrol went from 9 cops to 6 cops that would make. 3 cops per squad * 3 squads = 9 cops per command we would then multiply this by 100 (number of patrol commands + 10) we would give you 900 cops to attrition from downsizing. How many sgts would we lose???? 0 is the answer because you need 3 squad sgt no matter what. Do you understand now? Same for occb modules. 3 less det in a module means same number of sgts. I cant explain it any easier. Tell me where you work so I can make a power point presentation and graph it for you. Don't forget that out of the 2500 plus I see approx 300 sgts in that group. We are going to replace them. Ill be checking orders for retirees and ill mark how many are sgts. Ill also mark lueitenants as well. And unlike the trolls ill provide you with evidence that a 1600 name list isn't so bad. So now you understand hopefully. Manning a staff isn't simple math like 1 Sgt for every 8 cops. Now you know more about it. If you don't agree then you probably don't understand. Please write back why I'm wrong instead of that I'm wrong.

spartan85 · Senior Member

Omg I made an error thats 3 cops * 3 squads * 3 platoons 27 per command. 27*100 is 2700. And still the same amount of sgts needed. Bah proved m not ay point. Don't respond I'm wrong unless you have a claim to back it up with....in other words make an argument not a statement. Who is the clueless twit now??? Nobody because now I have educated you in how manpower works.... think before you speak notasgtyet. Stop using simple equations for something complex and stop listening to rumors. Btw where did you get "everyone with an 80 and below should be sweating" ??? A complete asinine statement. Prove to me it isn't. I wa.t to know how you came to the conclusion of an 80.....

Peter scourtos · Member

i DONT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THE QUIZ ABOVE ITS A HARD QUESTION AND STUFF

PerpetualParadeRest · Member

Seriously you have the mindset of a dyslectic gerbil and you are not too smart either. Once again do your research regarding the shrinking head count and the rate of attrition of the NYPD before you go selling your potions and elixirs to unsuspecting sgts. Might I also recommend you brush up on simple economics as well. I sure hate rookie snake charmers.

supercop · Senior Member

The PC's told be I'm a great cop and the list is coming out this week and my list number is 108.

spartan85 · Senior Member

Its simple. The department will re organize manpower before completely eliminating squads modules and other units. In rare occasion the Dept will do so but that means only a hand full of supv being cut. That doesn't effect a list with only 1600 names. 4 years is a long time and it shows that's we can do more than 1600 names even with hiring almost no cops to replace retirees.

spartan85 · Senior Member

Again prove me wrong...don't just say I'm wrong.....perpetualparaderest. make a argument. I don't have any potions or elixirs. I'm backing my argument up..why don't you do the same... again with the economics.... I have included enough information...you are too stupid to understand it..

wisecop · Senior Member

Spartan is write, the amount of cops doesn't matter the same amount of sgt are needed regardless. It actually makes more sense that more sgt are in demand because if te large amount of retirements. It takes 20 years to feel the effects of the current hiring situation. No one really knows.

HB · Senior Member

spartan85 wrote:
That doesn't effect a list with only 1600 names.

Only 1600 names? Lmfao

NotASgtYet · Veteran Member

Spartan, you obviously are not able to comprehend the simple concept of Attrition. Perpetual is correct on his observation. A smaller police force has no need for a steady stream of newly minted sgts. If your rationale were to be followed then eventually the NYPD would become extremely top heavy just like a skinny girl with Ginormous titties. It is not going to happen in this state of economy. Do as Perpetual asks and do some research before blindly following your beliefs.

spartan85 · Senior Member

Once again. Besides saying I'm wrong you proved nothing. Using the Lts exam is such a bad example. Lt candidates alway die on the list. The demand for sgts is triple that of luitenants. I provide you with detailed examples. Provide me with some or just continue to look stupid with your pointless commentary. You say I'm wrong, then prove me wrong. Give me a valid argument. Nobody did. In a discussion/debate you provide an argument with your reasoning. Which I did. Then someone responds with their opinion and why, which you tried. Then I gave you a reason on why you are wrong and you continue to argue your original point on why you think I'm wrong. That is how a child argues. No sir, I scored higher than a 73. What it sounds like is that you failed the exam. Stop trying to make others feel the way you feel. They will get made. Lmao read the above posts. Much more people agree with me than disagree. If the list were more than 2000 then I would concur that people will die on it. However 1600 is nothing to worry about. Again with the plan of attrition in place we promoted over 1800 sgts in the past 4 years. And the only reason lt candidates are going to die on the list is because it has passed the 4 year mark. That's why they gave a new test. THE NEW TEST WAS GIVEN BECAUSE THEY STILL PLAN ON HIRING MORE LTS. NOTHING TO DO WITH ATTRITION MORON. I wouldn't want a lt as a boss that hasn't cracked open a patrol guide in over 6 years and the job agrees with me. Just give up you loser. You got nothing

spartan85 · Senior Member

Unless this job eliminates squads and changes our charts and eliminates units by completely getting rid of occb modules and detective squads. Or getting rid of nigh****ch for example. Or getting rid of trucks or closing down precincts you need the same amount of sgts. A squad of 12 needs 1 Sgt and so does a squad of 4..... don't you understand imbeciles!? The job has no plans of doing such a thing. If it does... only then does your theory apply. We will always have 3 squads in order to have the same scooter chart. We will always have a squad and nigh****ch and the same number of esu trucks. Sgts will supervise less cops. That's all that will happen. Unless I see them eliminating units. Which the only thing I see happening is cutting impact. That's the need for approx 60 less sgts. Big deal. Apparently they taught this in a 300 Lvl economics class and 101 didn't cut it for you guys.

transit_recid · Member

If the whole class from 20 years ago retires then it will be a mixture of many ranks, but the majority will not be supervisors. As you go up the ranks the numbers dwindle from large to small. That being said a large amount of PO's will be retiring and this may just balance out the PO:SGT ratio, keeping the numbers similar. Less cops means a need for less bosses. I personally think we need a lot more people on the job, but the rate at which they're hiring new cops isn't looking too prospective for future bosses being made at a fast rate.

NotASgtYet · Veteran Member

Perpetual, you hit the nail right on the head. Every command already has it full compliment of Sgts. There are no squads floating around without a Sgt and even if they were out there they would be assigned a Sgt in no time. What Spartan wants us to believe is that Sgts will be made and sent to places where there is no need for them. In a perfect world these are back up Sgts and a few years back some sqds had two sgts but that was because the squads were huge. Now a days just like Perpetual said there are skeleton crews in sqds. I fail to see how spartan believes they will keep minting sgts at a constant rate no matter how small the man power gets. HE IS RIDICULOUS!