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def 100. It directly conflicts with the patrol guide. YOU CANNOT authorize overtime for admin functions. That is the most obvious protest in my opinion. 

-- Edited by HabidasheryAuto on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 03:46:14 AM

HabidasheryAuto wrote:

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def 100. It directly conflicts with the patrol guide. YOU CANNOT authorized overtime for admin functions. That is the most obvious protest in my opinion. 

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 The reason why i don't think that will hold up is because that was a judgement question, so if your going to argue that it goes against the patrol guide, then the harrassment question did and so did the toilet paper thief...

-- Edited by outat20 on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 03:46:42 AM

I agree. They all should be tossed. The patrol guide is our bible. It determines everything we do. If we violate patrol guide procedures we can lose days, be put on monitoring, and for somethings be terminated. If they had a judgment question, that asked, do you collar an MOS for DWI? or because there is no accident you let him go because his partner was just killed LOD, and hes upset. Would that hold up? i know its an exaggeration, but do you see my point? Forgive my grammar I know its atrocious, im *cough* under the weather. 

I got the same questions wrong as well

#61 #63 #100

I got a 75. The 10 people I spoke to got: 56 64 65 68 69 75 75 75 77 80. Obviously, this is not a random sampling. I heard the same rumors about 200 passing scores too. For what it's worth, I think we can expect some double and quadruple answers but likely not as many as we would like. I think the judgment questions were unfair in that we were caught off guard, but they will be extremely difficult to argue against. Sadly, in this case, there is no strength in numbers. One method examiners use to determine the effectiveness of a question is the consistency of incorrect responses. So, ironically, the more of us that got a question wrong, the more valid it is considered to be....statistically. Please review the advice from the schools about protesting questions before you go. Venting frustration about the questions will not get them throw out. Bring your PG. Look for logical inconsistencies in the question stems and answers. There are some for sure. The PG questions require chapter and verse cited from the PG to have any other answer considered. As for the judgment stuff, you must clearly explain and persuasively defend your answer as a sound decision that is MORE CORRECT than the proposed answer. Keep in mind that some answers may be correct statements, but are not responsive to the call of the question.
I wish you all the best of luck. I know several people who studied very hard and made tremendous sacrifices and still got below a 70. It is unfair. If you studied hard you should pass. If you did not study hard you should fail (or squeak by). I hope the final answer key corrects some of the inequity.

@ qwerty123...... I disagree. The more people that got a question wrong, with the same answer, shows a problem with the question.
Take question 100 for example. Most people, on here at least, said roll up your sleeves and get to work. They did this because they know a LT. cannot authorize o.t. Question is bad.

ok if these are the ones we need to protest, we have to prepare for it what sections in PG,?  and does anyone remember how the questions read?.

#4 #15 #26 #47 #52 #58 #61 #63 #69 #77 #80 #81 #83 #84 #87 #89 #90 #100

let's concentrate on the above

Can we start to brainstorm so we can remember the questions? And star working on protest we all need to pick up some points

Do anyone remember any questions please post so I can start getting material ready I intended on getting at least 15 questions doubled or throw outs

Missing person... It States when someone is missing from temporary housing, or rooming a missing report WILL be taken. The reporters are not a definite as they "COULD BE" not "must be" or "can only be"

Can we get some help from the Lt. Who protested the last Capt. Exam

I'm with you One Under. However, the Captain's test had a lot of factors behind it as to why 15 questions were changed. The original amount of those that passed was way too low. They HAD to get more people on that list. In my opinion, the amount that initially passed this test will play a very big part when determining how many double answers there will be. We all need to work on getting some info as to how many initially passed. START A NEW THREAD IF ANYONE GETS A CONFIRMED NUMBER!!!

-- Edited by JustWonderin on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 05:34:49 PM

are you provided with the actual test during the protest? and is there a time limit?

Number 10.  How can he be the answer for a transport in question 13?When he was given an E-day in queston 10?

-- Edited by champ939 on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 09:32:37 PM

missing question 64

Thanks for the info area1

thanks area1

 Some key points in order to ensure your protest(s) is/are successful: Do not let DCAS reviewers do the work; i.e. cite the material, submit copies of PG procedures with highlights, and map out exactly where they should go in a clear, concise way. Prove that their proposed right answer is defective and the answer you selected is just as good as or better than their proposed answer choice.  Your goal is to get a double answer, not for the question to be thrown out.  If the question is thrown-out, everyone gets the 1 point; if it's a double answer, then only those who picked what you picked as the right answer gets the 1 point. Proof-read (have someone read) your protest.  The more articulate you are, the better your chances of a successful protest.  In borderline cases, having a well-written proposal might just make the reviewer think that you actually do know what you are talking about.  State the question and/or the question number--you'll be surprised at the number of protests submitted without this crucial information Do not be emotional.  Protesting a question because this is not how it's done in "real life" will not go over well. Do not dispute facts; state your case citing printed sources (not stories of how it's done in your pct.) Your final paragraph should be a summary, just in case the DCAS reviewer didn't get it/didn't read it the first time around. The following protest was successfuly submitted by a Rising Star instructor for the 2003 Lieutenant exam:   Protest of Proposed Key Answer   The City of New York Department of Citywide Administrative Services proposed answer key for the above referenced promotional exam records choice "c" as a correct answer for question number 59, which read as follows: A Lieutenant responds to a high school, where a Police Officer has a fourteen (14) year old student in custody for possession of a loaded firearm on the school grounds. According to Patrol Guide Series 215, "Juvenile Matters", the Lieutenant would be most correct to instruct the officer that the juvenile   a. should be taken into custody as a juvenile delinquent b. should be delivered directly to family court if the court is in session c. may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners   d. should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present Several crucial facts indicate that choice "d" is the most correct answer, and is as good or better than the proposed key answer choice "c". When examining proposed key answer choice "c", a careful reader is led to believe that the juvenile will be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners. This is clearly a violation of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 (Arrest of Juvenile Offender) step 13a, which states under the duties of Desk Officer: "Direct that juvenile offender be placed in forward patrol wagon compartment and adult prisoners in rear compartment if being transported at the same time". Proposed key answer choice "c" indicates that the juvenile: "may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners". The word "with" in the choice clearly leads a careful reader to believe that the juvenile will be transported with adult prisoners because proposed key answer choice "c" was not qualified correctly by indicating that the juvenile offender will be placed in the forward patrol wagon compartment and the adult prisoners will be placed in the rear compartment. In fact, Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language uses its first definition of the word "with" to mean "accompanied by; accompanying." Thus, by stating the words "with adult prisoners", and not using the correct qualification of separate compartments, the reader is led to believe that the juvenile is being transported together with adult prisoners, in the same compartment. Had proposed key answer choice "c" read: "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon as adult prisoners", it would have appeared to be more correct than using the words " with adult prisoners". In any event, proposed key answer choice "c" needs the qualification of informing the test taker that the juvenile will be placed in separate compartments to make it a correct statement that does not violate patrol guide procedure. Additionally, by stating in proposed key answer choice "c" that the juvenile "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners", one would be violating step 13 of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 which directs the Desk Officer to "Keep juvenile offender segregated from adult prisoners while in custody". It would be imprudent to assume the writers of the test meant for the test takers to know that the juvenile would be segregated in a separate compartment without actually placing that important qualifier into proposed key answer choice "c". Choice "d" is indisputably the most correct statement for the question based upon several facts. In Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 step 3, it directs the Arresting Officer " Do not question (juvenile) until arrival of parent, guardian, etc.". Step 4 of this procedure then directs the Arresting Officer to "Advise at same time, juvenile AND parent, guardian, etc., of constitutional rights PRIOR to interrogation". Clearly then, choice "d" which states that the juvenile "should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present" is an absolutely true statement given the circumstances outlined in the stem of the question. The note after step 4a of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 goes on to direct that " If the parent/guardian can not be notified, a juvenile MAY be questioned ONLY after: a. Every reasonable effort has been made to notify parent/guardian b. Determining the necessity for questioning at this time c. Considering the age, apparent intelligence of the child, and the ability of the juvenile to understand Miranda warnings Notwithstanding the above, because the stem of the question did not give the test taker any of these circumstances under which to question a juvenile without first notifying and securing the presence of the parent/guardian, choice "d" is clearly a true statement under the general terms and circumstances outlined. Normally, if there are no exceptional circumstances and/or exigencies, juveniles should generally be questioned in the presence of their parent/guardian. Furthermore, the presence or absence of a parent/guardian is a factor to be considered in determining whether or not to question a child. Section 305.2 subdivision 8 of The Family Court Act of the State of New York states that "In determining the suitability of questioning and determining the reasonable period of time for questioning such a child, the childs age, the presence or absence of his parents or other persons legally responsible for his care and notification pursuant to subdivision three shall be included among relevant considerations". In fact, New York State courts have held that a child should be questioned in the presence of a parent/guardian. In the case of PEOPLE of the State New York v. Alfonso Castro, 462 N.Y.S.2d 369, the Supreme Court, Criminal Term, Queens County heard the case of a fourteen year old juvenile offender arrested for robbery. In the courts decision, Judge Eugene P. Bambrick cited previous New York State case law regarding the questioning of juveniles. Notably, in Matter of Penn, 402 N.Y.S.2d 155, a fourteen year old was arrested for Robbery first degree and Burglary second degree, wherein "the Court declares that proper safeguarding of the child's privilege against self-incrimination suggest that a child should not be questioned until at least one of his parents has been notified and is present". To not do so may lead to circumstances whereas "the interrogation of the defendant during which neither his mother nor the attorney was present was ruled inadmissible", as in People v. Kocik, 407 N.Y.S.2d 929, and People v. Bevilacqua, 410 N.Y.S.2d 549. At the core of this argument is line number 39 on page 2 of active Legal Bureau Bulletin Vol. 13 No. 4, which alerts members of the service that: "Ordinarily the questioning of a child without such person (parent/guardian) should not be done". Therefore, because the stem of the question gave the test taker general terms and ordinary custody of a juvenile offender, with nothing more, and because choice "d" did not qualify its statement any further, it becomes an acceptable and accurate statement in general/ordinary terms. In summation, choice "c" without any further qualification is an absolutely inaccurate statement as written. Choice "d" on the other hand, is a correct statement due to the fact that the stem of the question made no reference to, nor implied any extraordinary circumstances that would require the juvenile to be questioned outside the presence of a parent/guardian. Based upon the foregoing facts, choice "d" is noticeably the most correct answer, and as such, should be the key answer for question number 59. It is therefore respectfully requested that the Test Validation Board change the final key answer for question number 59 to read "d". * See attachments of highlighted documentation to referenced materials __________________ Scammer Auto 63 at base Member Status: Offline Posts: 10 Date: 2 days ago Here is the protest for question 16 Reply Quote  The City of New York Department of Citywide Administrative Services proposed answer key for PROMOTION TO SERGEANT (POLICE) Exam No. 1533 records choice "d" as a correct answer for question number 16. Several crucial facts indicate that choice "a" is the most correct answer, and is as good as or better than the proposed key answer choice "d". The question asks the reader to locate the appropriate mobilization point for an explosion that has occurred at a clinic where there is an orange smoke coming from the clinic. This orange smoke would indicate a hazardous material that is airborne and can be blown by the wind.  Patrol Guide 212-37 (Hazardous Materials) states to establish frozen zones for 2-c. Explosion or fire: (1) Outdoors - at least 1000 feet in radius from explosive indicating that the mobilization point must be at least 1000 feet from the clinic. It further states to 18-b-(1) Choose area on high ground and/or upwind of hazardous material, if possible, to avoid contamination. Patrol Guide 213-02 (Emergency Incidents) then states that NOTE: Mobilization point should be of sufficient size to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization. This leads the reader to look for 3 criteria in choosing a mobilization point: 1) that it is at least 1000 feet away from the clinic, 2) can accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization and 3), if possible, be located upwind. For the 1000 feet minimum distance, the information for the map stated the distance between any two blocks is 500 feet. There were no scales on the map. This is very ambiguous and begs the question; is the distance measured from the same point on the two blocks? Could just going from one corner across the street to the other corner be 500 feet? Since there was one full block between the clinic and the stadium parking lot, then based on the given statement crossing 2 streets that separates 3 blocks (clinic, stadium parking lot, and the block between them) would meet the minimum distance of 1000 feet. For the ability of the mobilization point to be able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization, several material in the in-basket indicated there was a sold-out concert at the stadium that was over capacity. What was not mentioned was the size/capacity of the parking lot nor was mentioned how much of the parking lot was used/not available when determining if it could be used for a mobilization point. This can lead one to believe that perhaps the parking lot could have been very large and still have ample space even with an over-capacity event. The information given was not specific enough about the space available in the stadium parking lot. Therefore, the stadium parking lot must be assumed to be able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization. Finally, as for locating the mobilization point upwind, if possible, the introduction to the in-basket stated that winds were southern at 35 MPH. According to Webster Dictionary, both southern and southerly mean coming from the south meaning the wind blows from south to north. Since the stadium was south of the clinic and the wind is blowing north, then the stadium is upwind of the explosion and smoke. In summation, choice "d", the park, may be over 1000 feet away and capable of accommodating a Level 3 or 4 mobilization, but it is downwind of an airborne hazardous material and IT WAS POSSIBLE to mobilize at the stadium parking lot. Choice "a" on the other hand, is a correct statement due to the fact that it meets all the criteria for a mobilization point: it is upwind, at least 1000 feet away, and is apparently able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization. Based upon the foregoing facts, choice "a" is noticeably the most correct answer, and as such, should be the key answer for question number 16. It is therefore respectfully requested that the Test Validation Board change the final key answer for question number 16 to read "a". __________________ RockDaKessba Veteran Member Status: Offline Posts: 29 Date: yesterday RE: Protest tips and example of a successful protest Reply Quote  Scammer Auto 63 at base wrote: The City of New York Department of Citywide Administrative Services proposed answer key for PROMOTION TO SERGEANT (POLICE) Exam No. 1533 records choice "d" as a correct answer for question number 16.   Several crucial facts indicate that choice "a" is the most correct answer, and is as good as or better than the proposed key answer choice "d".   The question asks the reader to locate the appropriate mobilization point for an explosion that has occurred at a clinic where there is an orange smoke coming from the clinic. This orange smoke would indicate a hazardous material that is airborne and can be blown by the wind.  Patrol Guide 212-37 (Hazardous Materials) states to establish frozen zones for 2-c. Explosion or fire: (1) Outdoors - at least 1000 feet in radius from explosive indicating that the mobilization point must be at least 1000 feet from the clinic. It further states to 18-b-(1) Choose area on high ground and/or upwind of hazardous material, if possible, to avoid contamination. Patrol Guide 213-02 (Emergency Incidents) then states that NOTE: Mobilization point should be of sufficient size to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization.   This leads the reader to look for 3 criteria in choosing a mobilization point: 1) that it is at least 1000 feet away from the clinic, 2) can accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization and 3), if possible, be located upwind.   For the 1000 feet minimum distance, the information for the map stated the distance between any two blocks is 500 feet. There were no scales on the map. This is very ambiguous and begs the question; is the distance measured from the same point on the two blocks? Could just going from one corner across the street to the other corner be 500 feet? Since there was one full block between the clinic and the stadium parking lot, then based on the given statement crossing 2 streets that separates 3 blocks (clinic, stadium parking lot, and the block between them) would meet the minimum distance of 1000 feet.   For the ability of the mobilization point to be able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization, several material in the in-basket indicated there was a sold-out concert at the stadium that was over capacity. What was not mentioned was the size/capacity of the parking lot nor was mentioned how much of the parking lot was used/not available when determining if it could be used for a mobilization point. This can lead one to believe that perhaps the parking lot could have been very large and still have ample space even with an over-capacity event. The information given was not specific enough about the space available in the stadium parking lot. Therefore, the stadium parking lot must be assumed to be able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization.   Finally, as for locating the mobilization point upwind, if possible, the introduction to the in-basket stated that winds were southern at 35 MPH. According to Webster Dictionary, both southern and southerly mean coming from the south meaning the wind blows from south to north. Since the stadium was south of the clinic and the wind is blowing north, then the stadium is upwind of the explosion and smoke.   In summation, choice "d", the park, may be over 1000 feet away and capable of accommodating a Level 3 or 4 mobilization, but it is downwind of an airborne hazardous material and IT WAS POSSIBLE to mobilize at the stadium parking lot. Choice "a" on the other hand, is a correct statement due to the fact that it meets all the criteria for a mobilization point: it is upwind, at least 1000 feet away, and is apparently able to accommodate a Level 3 or 4 mobilization.   Based upon the foregoing facts, choice "a" is noticeably the most correct answer, and as such, should be the key answer for question number 16. It is therefore respectfully requested that the Test Validation Board change the final key answer for question number 16 to read "a".  line 6 point 3 the word if POSSIBLE , be located upwind. that's the only thing that can be used against you. Good points though. good luck

Post your reason to protest a specific question clearly I may use it when I go down to protest. I will protest has much has possible to get questions doubled or thrown out..

Has anyone received their protest letter?

outat20 wrote:

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wereinbacklog wrote:

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Has anyone received their protest letter?

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 No, will prob. be receiving them next week.

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 I thought the protest session was next Wednesday (5th Wednesday after the exam).

No letter yet. Protest session 11/30-12/30

thanks area1