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A broken hand is WITHOUT question a serious injury!!! U cant be serious man if ur thinking otherwise... People go under the knife for certain breaks...to insert pins, screws plus the wearing of a cast for 4-5 months etc. Not to mention the Occupational therapy/rehab that follows. Guys, come on now. Common sense. If anyone I know suffered a break, trust me, I'd be VERY concerned. Secondly, You give the damn cop the E Day. Common sense again. Screw that Finest message!!!! You're a LT. Make a decision and explain it to the CO/XO...(if they even freaking ask, which they wont). They're the only people higher than u in that entire CMD. Geez!! Sure a family member can probably take the baby, but ask urself, What good is a cop coming to work when his heart and mind is else where?? Calling his family member every 5 mins for updates etc. also, u bang out the damn Aided Card for the choking elderly woman...Hemlich DID NOT WORK!! common sense again. Think if it was YOUR grand ma in there, and ur off duty visiting her when it happens and u see 2 cops show up, make a damn A/L entry and then go 98 to go handle a 10-11. Finally, U find the cop at fault and bang him out for the CD. Bottom line!! I know its a CO's duty, but retraining is not appropiate there. Says Right in the additional Data when discipline should be enforced as opposd to retraining. Every month the C.O.D office calls the base to ask for a CD number when a cop(s) are found at fault in 53's. Dispute all u want. I dropped stuff too..but I didnt give them the EZ ones.
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:44:42 PM
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:45:31 PM
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:46:15 PM
In penal law terms, I would agree with broken bones being serious physical injury as its is much more clearly defined. But in 217 accidents, the rules apply more to life and death type situations and the "serious injury" is never really properly defined. If the question said "The motorist came into the SH with a broken hand, a serious injury, yada yada yada." I would agree with you, but they didn't so it is up for interpretation. Question can be protested.
As for your other points we can disagree a ll over the place, point is the test was too subjective and open to interpretation.
Also if you read 206 and 217, a Lt cannot actually give a CD or retrain anyone in 10-53's where the cop made an error in driving. Why? Dept vehicle accidents are always adjudicated in the Pct of occurence. Lt's are never CO's or XO's in Precincts, so it not their duty to hold a safety hearing or send anyone for retraining.
Also a Lt in a pct cannot actually give a CD either. Why? He is not the CO, he can only fill out a Supervisor's Complaint Report and send it to the CO, he cannot actually initiate the Command Discipline process, he can only do a report recommending the cop gets one when he is made aware of a violation of dept rules. I am 100% certain of that.
It is as if the test writers didn't even understand the material...
-- Edited by PatrolGuideismyBible on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 10:26:51 PM
Nino you acknowledged that it's a co's duty and thats why it's getting protested thats all. I could care less about a serious injury but just don't ask me about a co's duty when I'm taking a lieutenants exam.
you dont give aided card to the desk officer, you give it to the command clerk. I dropped that one, correct answer was to put the ACR# in your activity log.
A broken hand is WITHOUT question a serious injury!!! U cant be serious man if ur thinking otherwise... People go under the knife for certain breaks...to insert pins, screws plus the wearing of a cast for 4-5 months etc. Not to mention the Occupational therapy/rehab that follows. Guys, come on now. Common sense. If anyone I know suffered a break, trust me, I'd be VERY concerned. Secondly, You give the damn cop the E Day. Common sense again. Screw that Finest message!!!! You're a LT. Make a decision and explain it to the CO/XO...(if they even freaking ask, which they wont). They're the only people higher than u in that entire CMD. Geez!! Sure a family member can probably take the baby, but ask urself, What good is a cop coming to work when his heart and mind is else where?? Calling his family member every 5 mins for updates etc. also, u bang out the damn Aided Card for the choking elderly woman...Hemlich DID NOT WORK!! common sense again. Think if it was YOUR grand ma in there, and ur off duty visiting her when it happens and u see 2 cops show up, make a damn A/L entry and then go 98 to go handle a 10-11. Finally, U find the cop at fault and bang him out for the CD. Bottom line!! I know its a CO's duty, but retraining is not appropiate there. Says Right in the additional Data when discipline should be enforced as opposd to retraining. Every month the C.O.D office calls the base to ask for a CD number when a cop(s) are found at fault in 53's. Dispute all u want. I dropped stuff too..but I didnt give them the EZ ones.
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:44:42 PM
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:45:31 PM
-- Edited by NinoBrown on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 09:46:15 PM
It's not make an activity log entry and go 98. You're including the ACR# which means that you waited for EMS to get it.
you dont give aided card to the desk officer, you give it to the command clerk. I dropped that one, correct answer was to put the ACR# in your activity log.
yeah, that was really relevant for a lieutenant's test. great job, DCAS! right up there with the Activity log entry at the fire.
Well even if you put a CO duty on an exam to be difficult, a Lieutenant is never a CO or XO of a Precinct which is the type of command that always deals with Dept Vehicle Accidents. If they put a Squad CO question, that would be fair game, even if it is obscure and unrealistic for a newly promoted Lt to be a Squad CO. All 3 questions from 217 can be protested, they were all poorly written and up for too much interpretation and don't directly follow the written rules...
Patrolguide we know but NINO thinks he know's everything and got the aided question wrong. He fell for their tricks like the rest of us but we're just trying to expose the mistakes they made in the process of trying to be slick.
I got the aided wrong, I'll admit it and its a point I know the fast track made in a question and in its Total Guide and I still dropped it. Aided Card does not go to the Desk for regular Aided's, goes to the Command Clerk. In EDP's, the Aided Card does go to the DO. Cheap, but it is in the book written that way. I agree in it being an Aided case and not a routine sick at home/nursing home, but I got it wrong on a cheap shot. But if I had time to reread the test, I probably would have picked up on it, but I didn't so I got it wrong, nothing I can do about that one...
Patrolguide we know but NINO thinks he know's everything and got the aided question wrong. He fell for their tricks like the rest of us but we're just trying to expose the mistakes they made in the process of trying to be slick.
If I thought I knew everything I wouldnt be praying for a 70..lol.
Thats right edub. You don't give aideds to the desk officer..at least in that section of the guide.
yes, i caught that, it's actually a fast track note in the total guide. my point was they are testing minutia, if you are writing 50 PG questions, and one from 216, any rational person would go to EDP's or DOA's, not the Activity Log of a cop at an aided or fire. Awful choice of questions, these guys should all be sent back to the 73 midnights after this exam.
Everyone was concentrating on to do the aided or not cause it was a nursing home, they got caught out there, I know I did, and I know the aided card goes to CC, EDP it goes to desk. I knew it cold and missed it anyway, what a fool I am. Oh well
Everyone was concentrating on to do the aided or not cause it was a nursing home, they got caught out there, I know I did, and I know the aided card goes to CC, EDP it goes to desk. I knew it cold and missed it anyway, what a fool I am. Oh well
Question will get thrown out anyway. U cant put the acr # in memo book if the bus wasnt on the scene as per the stem of the question.
To me, a broken hand is not a serious injury, especially from a vehicle accident. Yes it can be serious depending on the break if it requires surgery etc, but I think they tried to get too cute with the question and it backfired.
There is so many different ways to answer the question
Just give 104 and have him leave
Refer to other precinct for preparation of PAR
Give 104 and send him to other precinct to prepare a 61 for leaving the scene
Give 104 and prepare 61 in the precinct for leaving scene.
If you don't know by now a broken bone is considered a serious injury, I don't know what to say. This test had plenty of tricks, that was not one of them.
Everyone was concentrating on to do the aided or not cause it was a nursing home, they got caught out there, I know I did, and I know the aided card goes to CC, EDP it goes to desk. I knew it cold and missed it anyway, what a fool I am. Oh well
Question will get thrown out anyway. U cant put the acr # in memo book if the bus wasnt on the scene as per the stem of the question.
Very good HB..u just saved me a point cause I damn sure fell for the trick.
NYPDBLUE, are u forgetting it was a two prong situation? He was a victim of a crime...leaving the scene. That alone, wont qualify him to do a MV104. Send him back to the command of occ.
NYPDBLUE, are u forgetting it was a two prong situation? He was a victim of a crime...leaving the scene. That alone, wont qualify him to do a MV104. Send him back to the command of occ.
But do they get that deep into that in 217? Kind of vague on what to do in that situation in that specific procedure. Also vague was whether or not you would even count a broken hand as serious injury. But if the argument is you always do a 61 AND a PAR for a victim of a crime than the other factors don't matter- commercial veh/towed veh, SPI, within 5 days PI, etc.
But the PG never says in 217, vicitim of Leaving the Scene always gets a PAR AND a 61, definite gray area. Yet another cheap one they went to? ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE!!!
Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting initial preparation of a Police Accident Report for an accident that does not meet the above criteria, shall instead be given a copy of New York State Department of Motor Vehicles - Report of Motor Vehicle Accident (MV104) to complete and submit on their own. Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting that a Police Accident Report be completed for them, where property damage to a vehicle or personal injury is involved, and the operator of one of the vehicles has fled the scene without reporting, will be referred to the command where the accident occurred (see P.G. 217-05, "Leaving the Scene").
Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting initial preparation of a Police Accident Report for an accident that does not meet the above criteria, shall instead be given a copy of New York State Department of Motor Vehicles - Report of Motor Vehicle Accident (MV104) to complete and submit on their own. Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting that a Police Accident Report be completed for them, where property damage to a vehicle or personal injury is involved, and the operator of one of the vehicles has fled the scene without reporting, will be referred to the command where the accident occurred (see P.G. 217-05, "Leaving the Scene").
Thank u Rookie..at least we can put one debate to rest. Now only 25 more to go....lol
I do however have an issue with the "operator of one of the vehicles has fled the scene without reporting will be reffered to the command where the accident occurred. If I'm not mistaken, and someone correct me if I'm wrong or as Roger Clemens would say "misremembered" (NOT standard English or even a word as far as I know) the question, but didn't the guy with the broken hand say him and the other driver couldn't report it at the scene because they were late for work or something? Is that really considered "fleeing the scene" in that regard? To me "fleeing the scene" means not even stopping to see what happened or even acknowledging that an accident occurred. Again maybe I just don't remember the question fully. Any thoughts?
Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting initial preparation of a Police Accident Report for an accident that does not meet the above criteria, shall instead be given a copy of New York State Department of Motor Vehicles - Report of Motor Vehicle Accident (MV104) to complete and submit on their own. Any person(s)/party appearing in person at a police facility and requesting that a Police Accident Report be completed for them, where property damage to a vehicle or personal injury is involved, and the operator of one of the vehicles has fled the scene without reporting, will be referred to the command where the accident occurred (see P.G. 217-05, "Leaving the Scene").
Thank u Rookie..at least we can put one debate to rest. Now only 25 more to go....lol
How do you put that question to bed, when that paragraph from the patrol guide gave supporting evidence for 2 correct answers?
Pretty sure the question said nothing about the guy being late for work.
It did say that in the question. Not sure which driver they were talking about. Also im just curious. In the stem of the question did they say the motorist hand was broken due to the accident? Or did they simply mention the accident then said he walked into the cmd with broken hand leaving us to determine if the 53 was the cause of the injury? Just trying to see if it was a trick like most of the test.
Pretty sure the question said nothing about the guy being late for work.
It did say that in the question. Not sure which driver they were talking about. Also im just curious. In the stem of the question did they say the motorist hand was broken due to the accident? Or did they simply mention the accident then said he walked into the cmd with broken hand leaving us to determine if the 53 was the cause of the injury? Just trying to see if it was a trick like most of the test.
hey Guys i think i remember how that question went. It was a very tricky one. They made you think about the procedure when can a cop fill out a par off scene, which is 5 days if there was injury. But, they never said that the par was not prepared. the best answer to me was to inform the c/v the fee for a copy of an accident is 10.00
hey Guys i think i remember how that question went. It was a very tricky one. They made you think about the procedure when can a cop fill out a par off scene, which is 5 days if there was injury. But, they never said that the par was not prepared. the best answer to me was to inform the c/v the fee for a copy of an accident is 10.00
That would be right if they incuded check or money order. Not just $10 fee
NO HOOK I MENTIONED THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD AND NOBODY PAID ME ANY ATTENTION. I AGREE WITH YOU 500% NOBODY SAID THE PAR WASN'T PREPARED ALEADY ETC .. HOW DO WE KNOW HE DIDNT'T WANT TO ADD SOMETHING AND ANOTHER GOOD POINT WHICH I LOVE IS THE FACT THAT NOBODY SAID HE SUFFERED THAT BROKE HAND IN THE 53 AND THATS WHY I THOUGHT THEY PUT THE DATES IN THERE I THOUGHT ABOUT THE FEE ANSWER AS WELL BUT I DECIDED TO GIVE HIM THE FORM BECAUSE IT WAS OVER 5 DAYS. NOBODY SAID THAT HAND WAS BROKEN IN THE 53. IM SO GLAD SOMEBODY ELSE BROUGHT THIS UP. MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE CAN TELL ME WHY IM WRONG BUT IN THE MEANTIME I AM PROTESTING THIS QUESTION.
