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I attended today's protest session. To my surprise about 20 people showed up. In my room there were 5 people, 2 of which did not write any protests!!! They just wanted to see the questions they got wrong. I asked the monitor and she said that there were three rooms set up with about 20 chairs each to accomodate today's session. The same set up was expected for tomorrow. I cannot believe that between today and tomorrow we might only get about 40 protests. It's shocking.
I realized that what I was writing was important because of so few protesters, so I took my time and cited exact sections from the PG to back up my reasoning. I protested 11 questions and am asking those who will show up tomorrow to write the same reasoning for the following questions. You can state your own reasoning plus add mine or just write mine if you are stuck.
PRINT THIS OUT AND TAKE WITH YOU.
Take any materials you want inside and discuss with the people inside anything you want. You can also go to the other rooms and discuss with the people there. Let's all help each other out.
These are my questions:
40-force figures: I argued that Item Q, the memo describing how to count the figures was vague. It mentioned restricted, limited, modified in parenthesis adding "i.e." ahead of them which is usually means "for example". That's confusing, are there other examples that should not be counted? Are we supposed to guess what those are? The way the times were formatted on the page was confusing. The examiners should have put lines to separate the MOS so we won't confuse which start time belongs to which MOS. Throw out.
37-correction given in class: The correction was on a piece of paper and only showed the additional words. It should have shown the entire question as the examiners meant it to be. They had plenty of time to proofread the exam.
40-female PINS. Choice C stated the PINS procedure applied to a female. It did not exclude males therefore it was correct. It did not reffer to all females to the exclusion of anyone else, just "a female" in that specific scenario, making that choice correct. Double answer.
45-SPRINT attached to CCRB. The Note says all documents including SPRINT have to be sent, the Additional Data says that only those of radio runs w/in 24 hours should be attached. Which is right? Double answer.
63-broomstick swinging janitor. The state of mind was not clearly stated. It did not specify a reckless or intentional state of mind, it just described the actions and we were supposed to guess at it. Both the assault misd and assault fel could be an answer depending on the state of mind that was not specified by the examiners. Double answer.
68-Radio on at mobilization. The sergeant has to do paperwork, the detail roster, and monitor the radio. He has recorder duties, therefore the choice that stated the recorder and sergeant should have the radios on is also correct because they are one and the same.
76-manhole explosion. I argued for the choice that mentioned 300ft. The PG states 1000ft radius for "explosive" and fire, not "explosion" therefore being specific to the wording of the guide the 300ft answer is right. The manhole explosion could result from other than "explosive" so that subdivision would not apply. The truck did not explode or catch fire so it's not 1000ft, the only answer is 300 so the choice that lists that answer is also correct. Double answer or throw out.
83-arson 5 kid and appearance ticket. The question mentioned the parents were there but not that they were properly ID'd. Because of that we don't know if the kid can be recog'ed or not. The ID is mandatory. Throw out.
85-dog in park, ESU kennel request. The Operation Division is notified only if "emergency assistance" is needed. The question did not specify any was needed so none of the answers are correct. We can't just assume that it was. Throw out.
90-OCCB and drugs in building. The NOTE in PG says that OCCB is one of the units that get a copy of the 61. OCCB has many sub-units and Investigation Unit is one of them. Double answers, both equally correct.
i got a 74 on this test. Including EVERY SINGLE one of those questions wrong. It would be great there were some double answers or throw out on those questions.
also Q 84 - DV assault 3, I believe it was boyfriend vs girlfriend choice D - was to call 911 if he returns, the right choice choice C - was refer victim to crim court, whats wrong with this one? it wasn't a concurent juristiction and had to go to family court or crim ct, both over 16, not leg married no child in common and not related by blood or other. maybe double answer D is right but so is C
Q85 i got it wrong but will be hard to protest cuz the choice to call Ops is true cuz it was after 2000. i believe the right time was 2300.
Also a lot of people were happy that most of the Qs were which is most correct instead of least correct (less confusing) but in reality that makes the Qs harder because there might be 2 or more right answers.
Bee, good job on the protests. I'm sure those that didn't write out protests at the session will do so over the next 30 days. For anyone going to tomorrows session write a protest for the use of force question, there was no right answer, all were incorrect.
I specifically looked at the use of force question because someone on this forum asked it. I must say that the correct choice was word for word from the PG and the other 3 had one or two words different. The three wrong answers were so clearly wrong that I was unable to come up with any reasoning why even one of them was right.
bee1242. can you explain to me 76 again ? what was the question exactly? i am reading the patrol guide . states here explosion or fire 1- outdoors- at least 1000 feet in radius from explosives and at least 300 feet in radius from the fire and tanker truck or military shipment extend frozen area to a least 1000 feet in radius
I argued for my answer, that stated to establish a 300 ft zone and asked the examiners to make it a double answer. There was a manhole explosion that caused a tanker truck with haz materials to collide with a building. I focused on proving that my choice was also correct.
PG 212-37 section 1a states to establish the zone 300 ft from haz mat source.
The manhole explosion happened outdoors so it seems that the 1000 ft would apply 1c(1) but if you look at the exact PG wording it stated "1000 feet in radius from explosive and at least 300 feet in radius from fire". There was no "explosive" or fire mentioned so section 1c(1) does not apply.
Section 1c(3) states to extend the radius to 1000 ft with a tanker truck explosion or fire. There was no specific explosion or fire of the truck, so it also does not apply.
The only one that applies the 1a in regards to 300 ft radius from the haz mat source, making my answer choice also correct. Double answer.
Hey Bee, thanks for your thoroughness on this, I'm sitting with a 69 hoping for the one double answer to appear and forgot to mail in my protest card on time. Were you allowed to walk out of session having written out the entire question on paper? I am debating doing the mail in protest to help support what you have here but an not sure/remember the entire stem of most questions. Also, did they say when this meeting would be to determine which protests are going to be considered or not and when a final key (not list) would be done? Thanks. PM me if you have further details regarding the actual questions. I specifically need to look at 37,45,83,84,85,90. Also, wasn't #99 the narco question with the PSE debate. Anyone have any opinion on that after this session?
did you read the definition of dangerous dog in 214-33? but i got wat u mean now. it states in the note memebers require emergency assitance from ac and c between 2000 to 0800 hours should contact operation division.
37-the question had a correction handout. It was confusing and served to make us doubt the right answer choice. Why correct a wrong choice? The correction was on a piece of paper and we had to write it in the exam. It should have been the entire questions as the examiners wanted it to look. The placement of the correction in the actual question was confusing because they only handed out the few words they wanted added in by us. They had time to proofread the exam and we should not be penalized for their typing omissions. Throw out.
83-a 14 year old was arrested for arson 5. His parents were present at the station house and he was about to be issued an appearance ticket. The correct choice had the officer go to court the next day at 0900. The problem was that the question did not mention if the parents were properly ID's or not. The PG requires the ID of the parent or guardian before the juvenile can be recog-ed. Because the question was unclear on this, we don't know whether he can get an appearance ticket or not, therefore none of the answer choices apply. I forget the exact PG section but I cited it exactly in my protest. Throw out.
85-The other person explained it.
90-The question asked who gets a copy of the 61 after drugs were found in a building. DCAS had the answer that it goes to BS Narco. The PG NOTE says that the copy goes to a few different units, including the Narco Divison concerned and OCCB. I picked the choice that said that it went to the Investigative Unit, OCCB. Because no specific sub-unit is mentioned in the NOTE, just OCCB, my answer choice is correct. The Investigative Unit is part of OCCB. Double answer or throw out.
For Joecool:
45 was a walk in CCRB. He said that he was stopped by unknown cops two days prior because of a radio run with his description. The highest MOS in the cmd was the DO. DCAS said that the duty capt should have been the investigating supv which is true. I chose the answer that had the SPRINT printout of the radio run attached to the paperwork. The PG NOTE says that all documents including SPRINT have to be sent, the Additional Data says that only those of radio runs w/in 24 hours should be attached. Which is right? Double answer.
NO DOUBLE ANSWER FOR THAT ONE BECAUSE THE PATROL GUIDE SAYS WITHIN 24 HOURS BUT THE IN THE ANSWER IT SAID 48 HOURS WHICH MADE THAT CHOICE WRONG. DCAS IS CORRECT.
DCAS has the power to throw out questions and make any answer they want the right answer, even though according to the PG it is not. If enough protests are made for a specific question it can end up with multiple right answers.
This is what we are trying to do. It's not about what is correct or incorrect 100%, it's about our interpretation of the questions and the answer choices. It's about how confusing or clear we think they are and giving alternative explanations for our different answers.
It's nice that you took time to state a DCAS answer, but I think that it's more helpful to this specific thread if posters can find ways to make what DCAS thinks is a wrong answer into a possible right one. That is the way to get questions thrown out or have multiple answers.
THAT JUST MAKES NO SENSE. IF YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT DCAS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT THEN THEY CAN GO AGAINST THE PATROL GUIDE IF THEY WANT TO AND THAT WOULDNT BE IN OUR FAVOR. SOME OF US ARE TAKING THIS TO FAR.
It's true. I recall seeing questions with triple answers in previous tests. It's obvious that they can do anything. Anyway, the protests have to be based on the PG, even if it's just our interpretation of it. If I think that there is a conflict between procedures that in my opinion leads to a double answer, I have the right to state that. If enough people say they believe in the same conflict then maybe DCAS will make the question a double answer.
Thank you all for your hard work in protesting. Bee, dinner still on me if I get 1 POINT....and if I didn't pass I will study with you..... Good luck!!!!....
I say protest the whole inbasket accordin to the personell sheet the sgt you were performing duties of was rdo so how that effects trhing si absurd throw out whloe in basket thats my protest
Thank you for your input. Writing that was a lot of hard work. If you passed the exam God bless you. If not, then I hope that our protests help you get a few points. No hard feelings, you are entitled to your opinions.
I am personally done with this test. I have done all that I could and will just wait for the next exam to be announced.
hey Bee. just got back from the protest session. did you know question 37; choice A was the right answer in the test booklet as well as choice D? i am saying without the handout
Just wondering if anyone can answer this or noticed this about this the protest session: The instructions say you can't leave the session with any material or notes, yet they give you a 30 day period to mail in your protest and tell you to put the question number as well as to state the question in the protest. Huh? How are you supossed to do that if you can't take the question with you?
Bee, I got an 82 and also got all of those questions wrong except 37 and 40. Q#76 at the least has a double answer because PG states even if possible hazmat zone of safety 300ft. So A would be correct
october is to soon... the current list is not half way done yet
Hollar think about it, classes of 45 from now to the new years. Don't forget that the current list was out before the one before expired. Don't forget the department needs Sergeants.
hollar it is not about half way bro...the current number on 08 list is 315. the total from 08 is 671 Out of 671 about 100-120 not eligible for promotion till winter 2010. So Dept needs to promote about 235-255 people that are eligible. if they manage promote the eligibles till end of summer early fall, we will have 3-4 month to play around and thats when our list my come out and they could start promoting eligibles from 09 list. Same thing happened last year when 08 list came out and first 2-3 classes were 08 people. So nothing is too soon...everything is moving
THAT JUST MAKES NO SENSE. IF YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT DCAS CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT THEN THEY CAN GO AGAINST THE PATROL GUIDE IF THEY WANT TO AND THAT WOULDNT BE IN OUR FAVOR. SOME OF US ARE TAKING THIS TO FAR. 
