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WANNABELT · Veteran Member

Angel Dust

nohook · Veteran Member

you are right, Most people got it wrong talking about 1 psp 1 narco then 1 psp.
That make no sense to use 3 enveloppe answer is 1 PSP then 1 narco

fodx · Guru

What are u guys talking about. Its 1 psp, 1 narco, 1psp. So the anwer for question #99 was B

notsomuch · Veteran Member

YES, nohook is a TOOL!

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

If you read the procedure I promise you will find that it mentions placing the angel dust into a pse and then into a narco envelope but it never says to then put it into another pse. I think a good case can be made for protesting this question resulting in a double answer but if you read the procedure the most correct answer is one pse and one narco.

-- Edited by WANNABELT at 17:25, 2009-02-22

notsomuch · Veteran Member

I agree with you. That is what it says. I'm just saying nohook is a TOOL! Question, did IO-9-04 change that. If not I got it wrong.

-- Edited by notsomuch at 18:18, 2009-02-22

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

For the cims question re: auto extrication I thought that FD was on the scene first but from what I am reading on here I guess the sector was there first. It sucks because if that is the case and NYPD was there first then I knew the answer and still got the question wrong. That really sucks.

unborn · Guru

If you said 1 PSE and 1 Narc Env for Angel Dust, it would have helped if you picked up a PG before taking the test.

218-24, step 7a says to use a PSE and a Narc Env for Angel Dust; step 9, which covers any type of narcotics, says to put the Narc Env in a PSE. So your answer is 2 PSE's and 1 Narc Env.

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

unborn wrote:

If you said 1 PSE and 1 Narc Env for Angel Dust, it would have helped if you picked up a PG before taking the test.

218-24, step 7a says to use a PSE and a Narc Env for Angel Dust; step 9, which covers any type of narcotics, says to put the Narc Env in a PSE. So your answer is 2 PSE's and 1 Narc Env.

I think you will have a good case for a protest on that question unborn. Take a look at 218-24 step 11 Record the serial numbers of both envelopes in the "Details" section of the Property Clerk's Invoice.

-- Edited by WANNABELT at 19:47, 2009-02-22

sig226 · Senior Member

and what does it have to do with recording on PCI???))) thats a separate issue
Angel Dust is a special kind of substance. It needs different packaging technique.
1.PSE will have angel dust then that pse with angel dust goes into narc.envelope and then that envelope into another PSE
2pse 1 narc. envelope. plain n simple!

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

sig226 wrote:

and what does it have to do with recording on PCI???))) thats a separate issue
Angel Dust is a special kind of substance. It needs different packaging technique.
1.PSE will have angel dust then that pse with angel dust goes into narc.envelope and then that envelope into another PSE
2pse 1 narc. envelope. plain n simple!

The reason why the recording of the information on the Invoice matters is because step 11 does not allow for an exception which includes more than two envelopes. To me step 7a clearly separates the procedure for vouchering angel dust from that of other controlled substances. I don't agree that it is plain and simple. I think this question should be protested regardless of which answer dcas has as the correct answer and it should be a double answer. BTW I asked an instructor from the fast track and he agrees that this question will result in a double answer.

sig226 · Senior Member

it does allow due to difference in chemical structure of Angel Dust..

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

sig226 wrote:

it does allow due to difference in chemical structure of Angel Dust..

Sig step eleven says that you put both envelope #s on the invoice. My point is that both means exactly two. If there were three envelopes for angel dust than why is that not mentioned in step 11. If step 9 does apply than why wouldn't step 11?

nohook · Veteran Member

A tool u should use to get a 70. I am def. a tool thanks for the compliment.
I think that angel dust packaging is not so hard to understand. The reason you put it first inside a pse then narco is because of its chemical formation.
1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl).
the patrol guide does not states to use 2 pse. it just said to put it first inside pse then narco. U will only record two number. pse number and narco number. Maybe I didn't read the part where it's says to put in pse narco then pse. I tought those other answer were straight up Bog.
U got that NotSomuch hard. Notsomuch will i c u at bmac.

nohook · Veteran Member

I think wannabelt is right. it does matter the listing on the pci u always record pse narco number on the pci

Ok wit me · Veteran Member

Ok I had to sign up to clear this up for you guys. this is from the patrol guide its right in my lap.

step 7 umos

Controlled substances that contains phencyclidine(angel dust) will be put in a plastic security envelop and sealed prior to being placed in a security envelope for narcotics. ( so now we have 1 PSE)

step 8

Moisten flap, insert metal clasp(they no longer have this), seal and sign name, shield number, command and date across flap

step 9

place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse)

Step 10

you sign and seal PSE

step 11

put the narco envelope # and 2nd pse # in the details of the the invoice. B/c remember we can't see the number for the 1st pse its in the narco envelope.

so that ='s 2pse's and 1 narco

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

Ok wit me wrote:

Ok I had to sign up to clear this up for you guys. this is from the patrol guide its right in my lap.

step 7 umos

Controlled substances that contains phencyclidine(angel dust) will be put in a plastic security envelop and sealed prior to being placed in a security envelope for narcotics. ( so now we have 1 PSE)

step 8

Moisten flap, insert metal clasp(they no longer have this), seal and sign name, shield number, command and date across flap

step 9

place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse)

Step 10

you sign and seal PSE

step 11

put the narco envelope # and 2nd pse # in the details of the the invoice. B/c remember we can't see the number for the 1st pse its in the narco envelope.

so that ='s 2pse's and 1 narco

I think you have a valid arguement but I am convinced that this will be a double answer.

notsomuch · Veteran Member

nohook, thankyou for explaining that to me. By reading your posts it is all clear. No, I don't think you will be seeing anyone at B-moc.

nohook · Veteran Member

Hey, i disagree wit "ok wit me" step 8 9 10 11 is what you do in general when vouchering that kinda of stuff. In my opinion since angel dust require using pse first u would follow these steps before placing it inside Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope).
no where in that exception it mentions using a second pse.
Wrong argument to say: a) you can't see the first pse number.When sign it out on the property log D.O. must put the number on the property log
b)"place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse) "
that step tells u in my opinion is done for narco except angel dust.

[I.O. 9 s 04] Controlled substances/marijuana are to be placed into a Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope) and sealed. The sealed security lock-type envelope will then be placed into a Plastic Security Envelope and sealed for added protection. Controlled substances that contain phencyclidine (Angel Dust) will be put in a Plastic Security Envelope, and sealed, prior to being placed in the security lock-type envelope for narcotics.
8. Complete captions on envelope and attach security lead seals, where necessary.
9. Place items in envelope and seal in accordance with instructions on the envelope.
10. Enter Plastic Security Envelope or Jewelry Security Envelope serial numbers on PROPERTY CLERK'S INVOICES adjacent to related items.
11. Present sealed envelope to desk officer

I like this forum, I believe it's a good training for the protest session.

nohook · Veteran Member

Actually, while everybody including me is at B-MOC. I tought u be somewhere else like B-MAC(big mac).LOL.
Thanks for correcting the typo. very great typo catcher. By the way u might consider urself trying out with the mets.
i am 98

Ok wit me · Veteran Member

nohook wrote:

Hey, i disagree wit "ok wit me" step 8 9 10 11 is what you do in general when vouchering that kinda of stuff. In my opinion since angel dust require using pse first u would follow these steps before placing it inside Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope).
no where in that exception it mentions using a second pse.
Wrong argument to say: a) you can't see the first pse number.When sign it out on the property log D.O. must put the number on the property log
b)"place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse) "
that step tells u in my opinion is done for narco except angel dust.

[I.O. 9 s 04] Controlled substances/marijuana are to be placed into a Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope) and sealed. The sealed security lock-type envelope will then be placed into a Plastic Security Envelope and sealed for added protection. Controlled substances that contain phencyclidine (Angel Dust) will be put in a Plastic Security Envelope, and sealed, prior to being placed in the security lock-type envelope for narcotics.
8. Complete captions on envelope and attach security lead seals, where necessary.
9. Place items in envelope and seal in accordance with instructions on the envelope.
10. Enter Plastic Security Envelope or Jewelry Security Envelope serial numbers on PROPERTY CLERK'S INVOICES adjacent to related items.
11. Present sealed envelope to desk officer

I like this forum, I believe it's a good training for the protest session.

I'm not giving you my opinion I'm giving you what's in the guide. Using your opinon is failer on this test.

And i'm not up here to talk crap either.

When I said you can't see the 1st pse # was just to put it in simple terms for you. That's how you have to break down these procedures. Plus I deal with alot of drugs everyday and exactly the way the procedure states is how we vocher it. You can't send a narco to the lab with no Pse. You have to have a narco in a pse. no matter if you already put a pse in a narco(angel dust), it still has to go back in a pse.

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

Ok wit me wrote:

nohook wrote:

Hey, i disagree wit "ok wit me" step 8 9 10 11 is what you do in general when vouchering that kinda of stuff. In my opinion since angel dust require using pse first u would follow these steps before placing it inside Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope).
no where in that exception it mentions using a second pse.
Wrong argument to say: a) you can't see the first pse number.When sign it out on the property log D.O. must put the number on the property log
b)"place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse) "
that step tells u in my opinion is done for narco except angel dust.

[I.O. 9 s 04] Controlled substances/marijuana are to be placed into a Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope) and sealed. The sealed security lock-type envelope will then be placed into a Plastic Security Envelope and sealed for added protection. Controlled substances that contain phencyclidine (Angel Dust) will be put in a Plastic Security Envelope, and sealed, prior to being placed in the security lock-type envelope for narcotics.
8. Complete captions on envelope and attach security lead seals, where necessary.
9. Place items in envelope and seal in accordance with instructions on the envelope.
10. Enter Plastic Security Envelope or Jewelry Security Envelope serial numbers on PROPERTY CLERK'S INVOICES adjacent to related items.
11. Present sealed envelope to desk officer

I like this forum, I believe it's a good training for the protest session.

I'm not giving you my opinion I'm giving you what's in the guide. Using your opinon is failer on this test.

And i'm not up here to talk crap either.

When I said you can't see the 1st pse # was just to put it in simple terms for you. That's how you have to break down these procedures. Plus I deal with alot of drugs everyday and exactly the way the procedure states is how we vocher it. You can't send a narco to the lab with no Pse. You have to have a narco in a pse. no matter if you already put a pse in a narco(angel dust), it still has to go back in a pse.

As you may know the way that things are actually done has absolutely nothing to do with the correct answers on the exam. You stated your interpretation of the facts presented in the patrol guide. I and others have stated our slightly different interpretation.

Ok wit me · Veteran Member

WANNABELT wrote:

Ok wit me wrote:

nohook wrote:

Hey, i disagree wit "ok wit me" step 8 9 10 11 is what you do in general when vouchering that kinda of stuff. In my opinion since angel dust require using pse first u would follow these steps before placing it inside Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope).
no where in that exception it mentions using a second pse.
Wrong argument to say: a) you can't see the first pse number.When sign it out on the property log D.O. must put the number on the property log
b)"place sealed and signed narcotic evidence envelope inside a plastic security
envelope( this is your 2nd pse) "
that step tells u in my opinion is done for narco except angel dust.

[I.O. 9 s 04] Controlled substances/marijuana are to be placed into a Narcotics Evidence Envelope (security lock-type envelope) and sealed. The sealed security lock-type envelope will then be placed into a Plastic Security Envelope and sealed for added protection. Controlled substances that contain phencyclidine (Angel Dust) will be put in a Plastic Security Envelope, and sealed, prior to being placed in the security lock-type envelope for narcotics.
8. Complete captions on envelope and attach security lead seals, where necessary.
9. Place items in envelope and seal in accordance with instructions on the envelope.
10. Enter Plastic Security Envelope or Jewelry Security Envelope serial numbers on PROPERTY CLERK'S INVOICES adjacent to related items.
11. Present sealed envelope to desk officer

I like this forum, I believe it's a good training for the protest session.

I'm not giving you my opinion I'm giving you what's in the guide. Using your opinon is failer on this test.

And i'm not up here to talk crap either.

When I said you can't see the 1st pse # was just to put it in simple terms for you. That's how you have to break down these procedures. Plus I deal with alot of drugs everyday and exactly the way the procedure states is how we vocher it. You can't send a narco to the lab with no Pse. You have to have a narco in a pse. no matter if you already put a pse in a narco(angel dust), it still has to go back in a pse.

As you may know the way that things are actually done has absolutely nothing to do with the correct answers on the exam. You stated your interpretation of the facts presented in the patrol guide. I and others have stated our slightly different interpretation.

If you read what I said I do it the way it says to do it in the book, I do exactly the whole procedure when it comes to any drugs. So I'm not telling you what other cops do on the street, ( I know that has nothing to do with this test) I'm telling you I do it by the guide, so there for that's the answer im giving to you.

-- Edited by Ok wit me at 22:47, 2009-02-22

nohook · Veteran Member

O k I got it "ok wit me" you are not giving your opinion but your work experience.
If the test was based on work experience every single one of us would fail the test.
I used the term "my opinion" by modesty, because i don't wanna sound like i am better than everybody else.
i am gonna stick with 1 pse 1 narco as my final answer
98

hollar · Guru

WANNABET:
I doubt that the Fast Track instructor told you that is a double answer because during the cram course the instructor specifically stated that angel dust goes in 2 PSE and 1 narco

hollar · Guru

i spoke with a sgt that wrote the exam, he stated that a 2 pse and 1 narco... this is a ground ball question....

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

hollar wrote:

WANNABET:
I doubt that the Fast Track instructor told you that is a double answer because during the cram course the instructor specifically stated that angel dust goes in 2 PSE and 1 narco

You definitely did not hear Inspector Yanosik say that you use two pse and one narco envelope. I attended the bronx cram course and he specifically stated the the pg procedure is too vague to tell whether or not a second pse is used. I have contacted him since and I'm told that many people were surprised about this question.

WANNABELT · Veteran Member

BTW Hollar don't be so gullible your friend that says he wrote the exam is jerking your chain LOL.

hollar · Guru

i guess he might be jerking me... but nevertheless, the answer is 2 PSE...

hollar · Guru

WANNABET:

AND IF YOU KEPT LISTENING IN CLASS AND NOT BEEN SO GULILBLE AND NOT LET THE TEST PREPARES JERK YOU, YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD WHEN INSPECTOR YANO STATED THAT IT WOULD BE MOST CORRECT TO ANSWER 2 PSE... LMAO

20andout · Veteran Member

WHY ARE YOU GUYS AND GALS EVEN DEBATING THIS QUESTION. THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION WILL BE PROTESTED AND HAS A HIGH PROBABILITY OF BEING THROWN OUT BECAUSE IN ALL THE ANSWERS GIVEN IT MAKES SAYS PLASTIC ENVELOPES . I NEVER HEARD OF THAT PHRASE. I DID READ THAT PROCEDURE AND READ ABOUT A PLASTIC SECURITY ENEVELOPE. AS SOMEONE IN AN EARLIER POST MENTIONED WE DO HAVE JEWELRY SECURITY ENVELOPES WHICH ARE ALSO PLASTIC SO WHAT IS THIS INFAMOUS PLASTIC ENVELOPE confuse ? ARE WE SUPPOSE TO ASSUME THEY ARE REFERING TO A PLASTIC SECURITY ENVELOPE BECAUSE I CAN GO BACK TO MANY QUESTIONS WHERE I THOUGHT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. EVERYONE SHOULD PROTEST THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION.

the ringer · Senior Member

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whether people get a 60 or a 98,...... this yr they seem like they made it easier to protest........n with the economy and a possibility of a list as long as last yrz everyone should protest every quest they get wrong....u never know maybe that extra pt can get u in earlier to b moc ...and may help from them possibly cutting YOU OFFF

the list.......EVERYONE SHOULD PROTEST THE QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!U STUDIED ALONG TIME NOW GET THAT PT....THE REST OF THIS JOB U CANT FIGHT, BUT THIS WE SHOULD...UNLESS WE WANT TO DO THIS AGAIN IN 3 YEARS disbelief

fodx · Guru

If this got thrown out it would be awesome. I had a brain fart when I answered and put A instead of B. I cant forgive my self for it because it was pretty much a ground ball. I stil dont know why I put A. Dammit to hell.

Oleiry · Veteran Member

I think this is a protestable question. If I can remember they didn't layed out this question in the correct order. This the way they had it: A-2-PSE 1-NARC/ B- 1PSE 1-NARC/C.1- NARC 2PSE /D. 1-PSE 2-NARC. This is among some of the question that needs to be protested.

-- Edited by Oleiry at 14:44, 2009-02-24

-- Edited by Oleiry at 14:44, 2009-02-24

fodx · Guru

Oleiry, no youre wrong.

A was 1PSE/1NARC
B was 2PSE/1NARC

The answer was B. I chose A and Im killing myself over it because it was a groundball question.

Oleiry · Veteran Member

I understand that, but it seems that they want us to follow the right order on other question, like the question with no child left behind act. Or the question with ID Standards of when to issue a DAT. And with this one is just the format they want to use, that's wrong. I know the answer reads 2PSE AND 1Narco. All Im saying is that this is not the right format to follow. It should be 1PSE 1NARC 1PSE. I am second tired about this test writers. All they want you to follow the right format on certain things, only to their benefit. I said this is a protestable question due to the format that was used to layed an answer.

-- Edited by Oleiry at 21:40, 2009-02-24

fodx · Guru

Ahh I see what you're saying. The order of the envelopes is wrong. I never thought about that. Actually if they would have put them in the right order I might have said B and got it right because thats how I know it. I think t his quesiton is protestable for various reasons.

1) The order is wrong. Its not 2 PSE and 1 Narcotics. Its 1 PSE, 1 Narco, 1 PSE

2)I believe they didnt even have PSE, they has Plastic Envelope. No s uch thing.

Am I right?

Ok wit me · Veteran Member

Oleiry wrote:

I understand that, but it seems that they want us to follow the right order on other question, like the question with no child left behind act. Or the question with ID Standards of when to issue a DAT. And with this one is just the format they want to use, that's wrong. I know the answer reads 2PSE AND 1Narco. All Im saying is that this is not the right format to follow. It should be 1PSE 1NARC 1PSE. I am second tired about this test writers. All they want you to follow the right format on certain things, only to their benefit. I said this is a protestable question due to the format that was used to layed an answer.

-- Edited by Oleiry at 21:40, 2009-02-24

You have a good point. But I'm gonna put it to you like this. When you went through the academy they wanted you to pass those test, they just spent 100,000 on you. When you went to college you paid 1,000's to get a degree so they wanted you to pass. On these test they can give a damn who passes or fails, so thats why you have to think with your brian and not your heart, its sad but its a true statement.

-- Edited by Ok wit me at 22:17, 2009-02-24

-- Edited by Ok wit me at 22:17, 2009-02-24

Oleiry · Veteran Member

See, they didn't even write the answer right plastic bag? what do you mean by 2plastic bag and 1 narco. in the mean time the other answer read 1PSE 1NARCO. DON'T FORGET THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THE MOST CORRECT ANSWER.

fodx · Guru

Did anyone protest this question? Like actually go and protest it? This needs to be protested, I think it can get thrown out, seriously.

Oleiry · Veteran Member

Ok. It seems like we are all missing the point here. The fact is whether is 2pse 1narco, the answer wasn't written Correctly. The answer clearly stated 2plastic envelopes 1narco. The question should say 1PSE 1 NARCO 1 PSE/ You are not going to put angel dust in two plastic envelope and then in a narco envelope. Or the quest. should have read 2PSE 1 NARCO, although I think is wrong because they should heve had that question in a siquencial order like asking you about The child no left behind act, or the ID standard fo DAT.

sackex · Member

If i remember the angel dust question all it was asking you was the total number of pse which is 2 and the total number of narco envelope is 1. It was asking the order which it goes in just the total for each, but yet again i could be wrong

sackex · Member

it wasnt asking the order

Oleiry · Veteran Member

OK IT WASN'T ASKING YOU THE ORDER THE PSE AND NARCO, BUT I REALLY ANALYSED THIS QUESTION AND THE REASON WHY I DIDN'T PICKED THAT answer was becaused it stated the following 2PLASTIC ENVELOPE AND 1 NARCO ENVELOPE NOW THE ONE I PICKED STATED THE FOLLOWING 1PLASTIC SECURITY ENVELOPE AND 1NARCO. AND THE QUESTION WAS REFERRING ABOUT THE MOST CORRECT ANSWER AND TO ME THAT WAS THE MOST CORRECT. WHAT THEY MEAN ABOUT PUTTING TWO PLASTIC ENVELOPE I DON'T KNOW?

sackex · Member

but the answer is 2 plastic security envelopes and 1 narco envelope

20andout · Veteran Member

I AM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT A PLASTIC ENVELOPE IS ?? I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN IT IN THE PATROL GUIDE. I HAVE TO ASK THEM AT THE PROTEST SESSION.

Oleiry · Veteran Member

sackex wrote:

but the answer is 2 plastic security envelopes and 1 narco envelope

where did it mention 2PSE 1 NARCO Let me repeat my self the answer said 2 plastic bags and 1 narcotics bag. The NYPD HAS MANY BAGS INCLUDING THE GARBAGE BAG IN THE STA. HOUSE SO WHICH PLASTIC BAG THEY WERE REFERRING? Like I said the question wanted the most correct answer and 2 plastic bag 1 narco just doesn't sound right.

sackex · Member

never once mentioned plastic bags what so ever. it was asking the total number to use to package the angel dust. 2 plastic security envelopes and 1 narco envelopes and that is the answer which was b

METSIN09 · Member

I can't believe how many responses this post has recieved. Order, wording, etc. is all irrelevant. Don't fight the book rule #1. Putting the angel dust in a PSE is a Sub-step of the procedure which means it's "in addition to". Reg Narco - 1 PSE 1 Narco Env., Angel Dust - 2 PSE's and 1 Narco. That's it.

hollar · Guru

Oleiry did u take the exam on sunday?