Thanks to our sources we have some answers in regard to your sergeant exam.
It seems that DCAS decided to scale your exam. Scaling is done whenever there are exams with multiple versions; it allows for fairness whenever one version is deemed harder or easier than a comparison exam. In your case the test was scaled up.
Each question you got right was worth 1 point, however, for each question you got wrong you were only deducted .769 points. Attached you'll find a formula showing what your raw score was (pre-scaling) and what your final score should be (prior to adding points/medals)
For those of you who remember what your raw score was pls IM me to confirm this further.
Ed
-- Edited by eze on Saturday 24th of March 2018 11:10:41 PM
Good post. Hopefully people will realize they werent screwed over.
Tony Rags said
Mar 25, 2018
Right now, it appears that the sergeant exam was indeed scaled as my partner Ed indicated above with that formula used. By doing it this way, they are able to increase the list size while remaining fair because everyone benefited when it was scaled up without causing someone to jump over another from what their original raw score was. In essence, instead of the passing grade being 70, it is now 61 without it affecting list numbers.
Semp1 said
Mar 25, 2018
My issue with this curve is that if you got a 61 to a 64 and were given a 70 to a 72 and have full longevity, military points, medals, JST/physical, or maybe a combo of them all to gain a maximum of 10 additional points and maybe even pick up throw outs your essentially an 80 or higher now. Thats where the issues come. Some one who should have failed by 6-9 points can possibly be at an 80 or higher if all their ducks lined up in a row. Considering the NOE said you needed a 70 to pass they basically violated that by making a 61 a 70, thats an issue. With that being said let me explain why it can be. If you originally got a 70 and had 3 years on and get boosted to 76 the guy with 61-64 and full longevity or other points now passes you on the list when those points shouldnt have applied because they didnt actually pass and should failed by 6-9 points. This was not a college exam. Its a promo exam where other factors can adjust your score once achieving a 70. A curve does not work properly when the other factors are dept given additional points like the ones I listed that can affect your score still apply. Lastly the FOIL request that guys posted months ago said the original passers were below 1200 people prior to the throw outs, double answers or curve. Correct me if Im wrong but I believe there were only 3 throw outs and 2 doubles a total of 5 points max to pick up. So If the exam was scored correctly and there were just throw outs and doubles and no curve the list would be manageable most likely below 1700. A list of 2700 will possibly have issues being fully promoted in 4 years, and now a 76 is above 2000 on the way the list currently is when it would have been below 1100 most likely on a properly scored exams list and that 61-64 that now can possibly be an 80 is well below 1500 on this currently curved list. The 80 that was a 61-64 definitely gets made on this current list but who knows about the 76 that originally passed with a 70 that would have gotten made on a properrly scored exams list. Thats where the issues with this curve are, there are too many possibilities that can hurt the original passers that fulfilled the NOE requirement of achieving a 70 from the beginning.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 25th of March 2018 09:36:36 AM
eze said
Mar 25, 2018
Semp1 wrote:
My issue with this curve is that if you got a 61 to a 64 and were given a 70 to a 72 and have full longevity, military points, medals, JST/physical, or maybe a combo of them all to gain a maximum of 10 additional points and maybe even pick up throw outs your essentially an 80 or higher now. Thats where the issues come. Some one who should have failed by 6-9 points can possibly be at an 80 or higher if all their ducks lined up in a row. Considering the NOE said you needed a 70 to pass they basically violated that by making a 61 a 70, thats an issue. With that being said let me explain why it can be. If you originally got a 70 and had 3 years on and get boosted to 76 the guy with 61-64 and full longevity or other points now passes you on the list when those points shouldnt have applied because they didnt actually pass and should failed by 6-9 points. This was not a college exam. Its a promo exam where other factors can adjust your score once achieving a 70. A curve does not work properly when the other factors are dept given additional points like the ones I listed that can affect your score still apply. Lastly the FOIL request that guys posted months ago said the original passers were below 1200 people prior to the throw outs, double answers or curve. Correct me if Im wrong but I believe there were only 3 throw outs and 2 doubles a total of 5 points max to pick up. So If the exam was scored correctly and there were just throw outs and doubles and no curve the list would be manageable most likely below 1700. A list of 2700 will possibly have issues being fully promoted in 4 years, and now a 76 is above 2000 on the way the list currently is when it would have been below 1100 most likely on a properly scored exams list and that 61-64 that now can possibly be an 80 is well below 1500 on this currently curved list. The 80 that was a 61-64 definitely gets made on this current list but who knows about the 76 that originally passed with a 70 that would have gotten made on a properrly scored exams list. Thats where the issues with this curve are, there are too many possibilities that can hurt the original passers that fulfilled the NOE requirement of achieving a 70 from the beginning.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 25th of March 2018 09:36:36 AM
Fair point. It could become an issue if someone who originally passed gets cut from the list; however, that seems unlikely. Historically (prior to the 70% requirement) the pass mark had always been the top 1750 scorers plus ties--this was the projected number of openings over the 4 years the list would be active. When you look at the grading formula that was applied to your exam the junior-most person who originally passed would have ended up with a list number not lower than 1920 (raw score of 70 plus .700 seniority with no medals/JST would give them a 77.63)
So everyone with a list number of 1920 and under are the "original passers". I'm not saying they will cut the list, but if they were to, it seems that 1920 would likely be the floor (there should be no "original passers" in the bottom 762 of the list).
That still doesn't address your concern that among those who do get promoted some will be promoted earlier than others because of seniority, but in the end no one who originally passed should be cut.
Again, I do not know what the job will do in regard to promotions, but whatever does happen it seems that the job is covering themselves by making sure they have a foundation for why they did what they did.
HanginByAThread said
Mar 25, 2018
Semp1 makes a very valid point.
The other issue with this is that you can potentially miss a promotional exam because of this. If you get promoted to Sergeant a month after a Lts exam was given, but you had 200 names in front if you that originally failed but bumped you due to longevity, thats kind of unfair. Not taking anything away from the senior man, they deserve their points, but its a tough situation and it may very well happen.
The chart is absolutely spot on by the way. Added longevity and jst/run for myself and a few friends to test it. 100% spot on accuracy.
eze said
Mar 25, 2018
HanginByAThread wrote:
Semp1 makes a very valid point.
The other issue with this is that you can potentially miss a promotional exam because of this. If you get promoted to Sergeant a month after a Lts exam was given, but you had 200 names in front if you that originally failed but bumped you due to longevity, thats kind of unfair. Not taking anything away from the senior man, they deserve their points, but its a tough situation and it may very well happen.
The chart is absolutely spot on by the way. Added longevity and jst/run for myself and a few friends to test it. 100% spot on accuracy.
Absolutely, which I suspect is one of the reasons why they did this: to reward seniority. The only group that are affected by this are those who originally scored between a 70 and 76. Based on the maximum seniority points no one who originally scored at least a 77 and above will get jumped by anyone who originally failed.
-- Edited by eze on Sunday 25th of March 2018 02:40:12 PM
eze said
Mar 25, 2018
Here's where you need to be in order to not have been skipped over by someone who "originally failed". the chart on the right are original passers with 3 year seniority; on the left are original failures with maximum seniority. As you can see, no one who scored a 65 originally would pass someone who originally gotten anything 73 and above.
raw score and after curve and MAX seniority final score vs raw "original passing score" and MINIMUM seniority
69 82.937 77 83.013
68 82.168 76 82.244
67 81.399 75 81.475
66 80.63 74 80.706
65 79.861 73 79.937
64 79.092 72 79.168
63 78.33 71 78.399
62 77.554 70 77.63
-- Edited by eze on Sunday 25th of March 2018 03:38:53 PM
Theforceisstrongwiththisone said
Mar 25, 2018
eze wrote:
HanginByAThread wrote:
Semp1 makes a very valid point.
The other issue with this is that you can potentially miss a promotional exam because of this. If you get promoted to Sergeant a month after a Lts exam was given, but you had 200 names in front if you that originally failed but bumped you due to longevity, thats kind of unfair. Not taking anything away from the senior man, they deserve their points, but its a tough situation and it may very well happen.
The chart is absolutely spot on by the way. Added longevity and jst/run for myself and a few friends to test it. 100% spot on accuracy.
Absolutely, which I suspect is one of the reasons why they did this: to reward seniority. The only group that are affected by this are those who originally scored between a 70 and 76. Based on the maximum seniority points no one who originally scored at least a 77 and above will get jumped by anyone who originally failed.
-- Edited by eze on Sunday 25th of March 2018 02:40:12 PM
Seniority one of the reasons yes...but there have to be more...something is very fishy...
Thebirds said
Mar 25, 2018
I'm fine with this. My only remaining issue is the lack of transparency. The scoring method should have been announced in the NOE.
yougonow said
Mar 25, 2018
Who cares. Can we carry on as to when is the next BMOC. Thanks!
RookieScum4Life said
Mar 26, 2018
I posted when the list came out that it was "curved" and a 61 was the passing grade and there were many doubters. Just wanted to say I told you so.
Theforceisstrongwiththisone said
Mar 26, 2018
yougonow wrote:
Who cares. Can we carry on as to when is the next BMOC. Thanks!
Sorry to burst your bubble but there wont be another bmoc until this mess is figured out....why? Because you need a Lt promotion since there will be zero sgt vacancies once these current bmoc guys get promoted on tuesday.
At this point in the game you guys need the Lt list to be release...with this new dcas circus coming to light...doubtful. Hell im hoping the Lt list does come out asap it but just want to be honest with you guys.
Samiam32 said
Mar 26, 2018
Flip flop nonstop
CappedOut said
Mar 26, 2018
Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:
yougonow wrote:
Who cares. Can we carry on as to when is the next BMOC. Thanks!
Sorry to burst your bubble but there wont be another bmoc until this mess is figured out....why? Because you need a Lt promotion since there will be zero sgt vacancies once these current bmoc guys get promoted on tuesday.
At this point in the game you guys need the Lt list to be release...with this new dcas circus coming to light...doubtful. Hell im hoping the Lt list does come out asap it but just want to be honest with you guys.
I think it's already figured out. We're just finding out about it now.
yougonow said
Mar 26, 2018
I'm banking on April bmoc.
2andDone said
Mar 26, 2018
yougonow wrote:
I'm banking on April bmoc.
Dont bank on it.
GangGreenMets said
Mar 26, 2018
CappedOut wrote:
Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:
yougonow wrote:
Who cares. Can we carry on as to when is the next BMOC. Thanks!
Sorry to burst your bubble but there wont be another bmoc until this mess is figured out....why? Because you need a Lt promotion since there will be zero sgt vacancies once these current bmoc guys get promoted on tuesday.
At this point in the game you guys need the Lt list to be release...with this new dcas circus coming to light...doubtful. Hell im hoping the Lt list does come out asap it but just want to be honest with you guys.
I think it's already figured out. We're just finding out about it now.
Exactly, there isnt a mess. DCAS just scaled the exam, and explained what they did.
yougonow said
Mar 26, 2018
2andDone wrote:
yougonow wrote:
I'm banking on April bmoc.
Dont bank on it.
Why not?
TransitCop said
Mar 27, 2018
No one cares about curved exam all we want to know is how far down the list they are going to go.
Sunrise said
Mar 27, 2018
TransitCop wrote:
No one cares about curved exam all we want to know is how far down the list they are going to go.
Agreed
mrmonday said
Mar 27, 2018
why are people still making up stuff move on study harder next time if you didnt pass you still have your jobs thats all that counts
Thebirds said
Mar 27, 2018
The idiocy in the last few posts makes me lol so hard
Obviously people care since there was a ton of discussion about it. And if you don't care, you should. There needs to be 100% transparency in regard to how DCAS grades these exams. Maybe you don't intend on going past sergeant, but in the likely event that you do, this will affect you when you take the next exam. This is your career you morons. You want to know exactly what's going on when your livelihood is concerned.
JPAL91091 said
Mar 27, 2018
Thebirds wrote:
The idiocy in the last few posts makes me lol so hard
Obviously people care since there was a ton of discussion about it. And if you don't care, you should. There needs to be 100% transparency in regard to how DCAS grades these exams. Maybe you don't intend on going past sergeant, but in the likely event that you do, this will affect you when you take the next exam. This is your career you morons. You want to know exactly what's going on when your livelihood is concerned.
Look in the Lieut sections.. seems list is 1287 .. so they had an easier test than we did and still had 200+ people added to list after throwouts. Looks like tests will be once every 4-5 years and you need to score high. For the guys who made sgt right before this LT exam they really lucked out.
gmen18 said
Mar 27, 2018
JPAL91091 wrote:
Look in the Lieut sections.. seems list is 1287 .. so they had an easier test than we did and still had 200+ people added to list after throwouts. Looks like tests will be once every 4-5 years and you need to score high. For the guys who made sgt right before this LT exam they really lucked out.
thats not necessarily true. the person in the Lt thread who gave all the info regarding the number of passers also stated
there is no talk of cutting any promotional list. DCAS will not administer another exam until the list is almost exhausted. If the 4 years is up and there are still ppl on the list will be extended. This new process just sucks for those who are waiting to take the next Sgt, Lt or Cpt exam.
-- Edited by gmen18 on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 08:46:09 PM
brooklynbacon said
Mar 27, 2018
JPAL91091 wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
The idiocy in the last few posts makes me lol so hard
Obviously people care since there was a ton of discussion about it. And if you don't care, you should. There needs to be 100% transparency in regard to how DCAS grades these exams. Maybe you don't intend on going past sergeant, but in the likely event that you do, this will affect you when you take the next exam. This is your career you morons. You want to know exactly what's going on when your livelihood is concerned.
Look in the Lieut sections.. seems list is 1287 .. so they had an easier test than we did and still had 200+ people added to list after throwouts. Looks like tests will be once every 4-5 years and you need to score high. For the guys who made sgt right before this LT exam they really lucked out.
Lt and Capt have higher pass rates because these are people who already know how to study.
Half the people who take the sgt exam couldnt pass the mcdonalds fry test.
Chilza321 said
Mar 27, 2018
I feel like the 90 I got on the test is now tainted.
brooklynbacon said
Mar 27, 2018
For people that got a score of 65 in the mail what did they score? Did they pick up 9 too? So they had a 56 raw?
Reds said
Mar 27, 2018
brooklynbacon wrote:
For people that got a score of 65 in the mail what did they score? Did they pick up 9 too? So they had a 56 raw?
Yes. I know a guy who scored a 55 and is now at a 67Ish. He probably picked up two throwouts.
Thanks to our sources we have some answers in regard to your sergeant exam.
It seems that DCAS decided to scale your exam. Scaling is done whenever there are exams with multiple versions; it allows for fairness whenever one version is deemed harder or easier than a comparison exam. In your case the test was scaled up.
Each question you got right was worth 1 point, however, for each question you got wrong you were only deducted .769 points. Attached you'll find a formula showing what your raw score was (pre-scaling) and what your final score should be (prior to adding points/medals)
For those of you who remember what your raw score was pls IM me to confirm this further.
Ed
-- Edited by eze on Saturday 24th of March 2018 11:10:41 PM
Good post. Hopefully people will realize they werent screwed over.
Right now, it appears that the sergeant exam was indeed scaled as my partner Ed indicated above with that formula used. By doing it this way, they are able to increase the list size while remaining fair because everyone benefited when it was scaled up without causing someone to jump over another from what their original raw score was. In essence, instead of the passing grade being 70, it is now 61 without it affecting list numbers.
My issue with this curve is that if you got a 61 to a 64 and were given a 70 to a 72 and have full longevity, military points, medals, JST/physical, or maybe a combo of them all to gain a maximum of 10 additional points and maybe even pick up throw outs your essentially an 80 or higher now. Thats where the issues come. Some one who should have failed by 6-9 points can possibly be at an 80 or higher if all their ducks lined up in a row. Considering the NOE said you needed a 70 to pass they basically violated that by making a 61 a 70, thats an issue. With that being said let me explain why it can be. If you originally got a 70 and had 3 years on and get boosted to 76 the guy with 61-64 and full longevity or other points now passes you on the list when those points shouldnt have applied because they didnt actually pass and should failed by 6-9 points. This was not a college exam. Its a promo exam where other factors can adjust your score once achieving a 70. A curve does not work properly when the other factors are dept given additional points like the ones I listed that can affect your score still apply. Lastly the FOIL request that guys posted months ago said the original passers were below 1200 people prior to the throw outs, double answers or curve. Correct me if Im wrong but I believe there were only 3 throw outs and 2 doubles a total of 5 points max to pick up. So If the exam was scored correctly and there were just throw outs and doubles and no curve the list would be manageable most likely below 1700. A list of 2700 will possibly have issues being fully promoted in 4 years, and now a 76 is above 2000 on the way the list currently is when it would have been below 1100 most likely on a properly scored exams list and that 61-64 that now can possibly be an 80 is well below 1500 on this currently curved list. The 80 that was a 61-64 definitely gets made on this current list but who knows about the 76 that originally passed with a 70 that would have gotten made on a properrly scored exams list. Thats where the issues with this curve are, there are too many possibilities that can hurt the original passers that fulfilled the NOE requirement of achieving a 70 from the beginning.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 25th of March 2018 09:36:36 AM
Fair point. It could become an issue if someone who originally passed gets cut from the list; however, that seems unlikely. Historically (prior to the 70% requirement) the pass mark had always been the top 1750 scorers plus ties--this was the projected number of openings over the 4 years the list would be active. When you look at the grading formula that was applied to your exam the junior-most person who originally passed would have ended up with a list number not lower than 1920 (raw score of 70 plus .700 seniority with no medals/JST would give them a 77.63)
So everyone with a list number of 1920 and under are the "original passers". I'm not saying they will cut the list, but if they were to, it seems that 1920 would likely be the floor (there should be no "original passers" in the bottom 762 of the list).
That still doesn't address your concern that among those who do get promoted some will be promoted earlier than others because of seniority, but in the end no one who originally passed should be cut.
Again, I do not know what the job will do in regard to promotions, but whatever does happen it seems that the job is covering themselves by making sure they have a foundation for why they did what they did.
The other issue with this is that you can potentially miss a promotional exam because of this. If you get promoted to Sergeant a month after a Lts exam was given, but you had 200 names in front if you that originally failed but bumped you due to longevity, thats kind of unfair. Not taking anything away from the senior man, they deserve their points, but its a tough situation and it may very well happen.
The chart is absolutely spot on by the way. Added longevity and jst/run for myself and a few friends to test it. 100% spot on accuracy.
Absolutely, which I suspect is one of the reasons why they did this: to reward seniority. The only group that are affected by this are those who originally scored between a 70 and 76. Based on the maximum seniority points no one who originally scored at least a 77 and above will get jumped by anyone who originally failed.
-- Edited by eze on Sunday 25th of March 2018 02:40:12 PM
Here's where you need to be in order to not have been skipped over by someone who "originally failed". the chart on the right are original passers with 3 year seniority; on the left are original failures with maximum seniority. As you can see, no one who scored a 65 originally would pass someone who originally gotten anything 73 and above.
raw score and after curve and MAX seniority final score vs raw "original passing score" and MINIMUM seniority
69 82.937 77 83.013
68 82.168 76 82.244
67 81.399 75 81.475
66 80.63 74 80.706
65 79.861 73 79.937
64 79.092 72 79.168
63 78.33 71 78.399
62 77.554 70 77.63
-- Edited by eze on Sunday 25th of March 2018 03:38:53 PM
Seniority one of the reasons yes...but there have to be more...something is very fishy...
Sorry to burst your bubble but there wont be another bmoc until this mess is figured out....why? Because you need a Lt promotion since there will be zero sgt vacancies once these current bmoc guys get promoted on tuesday.
At this point in the game you guys need the Lt list to be release...with this new dcas circus coming to light...doubtful. Hell im hoping the Lt list does come out asap it but just want to be honest with you guys.
I think it's already figured out. We're just finding out about it now.
Dont bank on it.
Exactly, there isnt a mess. DCAS just scaled the exam, and explained what they did.
Why not?
Agreed
Obviously people care since there was a ton of discussion about it. And if you don't care, you should. There needs to be 100% transparency in regard to how DCAS grades these exams. Maybe you don't intend on going past sergeant, but in the likely event that you do, this will affect you when you take the next exam. This is your career you morons. You want to know exactly what's going on when your livelihood is concerned.
Look in the Lieut sections.. seems list is 1287 .. so they had an easier test than we did and still had 200+ people added to list after throwouts. Looks like tests will be once every 4-5 years and you need to score high. For the guys who made sgt right before this LT exam they really lucked out.
Look in the Lieut sections.. seems list is 1287 .. so they had an easier test than we did and still had 200+ people added to list after throwouts. Looks like tests will be once every 4-5 years and you need to score high. For the guys who made sgt right before this LT exam they really lucked out.
thats not necessarily true. the person in the Lt thread who gave all the info regarding the number of passers also stated
there is no talk of cutting any promotional list. DCAS will not administer another exam until the list is almost exhausted. If the 4 years is up and there are still ppl on the list will be extended. This new process just sucks for those who are waiting to take the next Sgt, Lt or Cpt exam.
-- Edited by gmen18 on Tuesday 27th of March 2018 08:46:09 PM
Lt and Capt have higher pass rates because these are people who already know how to study.
Half the people who take the sgt exam couldnt pass the mcdonalds fry test.
Yes. I know a guy who scored a 55 and is now at a 67Ish. He probably picked up two throwouts.