Absolutely Not. The reason for this is because a lieutenant salary upon promotion up until you reach top pay will always be a little more that an SDS/SSA.. Being that you cant take a pay cut when you get promoted, you will get a raise. You will then go to step 1 Lt. SO you will receive your raise. Now. Top pay SDS/SSA is the same exact salary as top pay LT...So lets say you are 2 years and 10 months into you SDS pay scale...2 more months to get to top pay ( same amount as top pay LT). Then you take the promotion to Lt. You will get a pay raise and Go to step 1 LT. And have to wait the 3 years to get to top pay when you are only 2 months away now. You have to pass up on the promotion until you hit top pay SDS this way there is no pay cut but there is no raise either.. What you lose is your chart days for 7 years, and instead of working 8:15 tour you work 8:45 and get to wear a white shirt, go to traffic stat and compstat and get your balls kicked over nonsense and see your dental coverage decrease. As it is now I think you total family allowance for dental is $1500 a year for EVERYONE covered. So if you have 3 children that $1500 has to last for you your spouse and 3 kids. That's 300 each a year. They have an option where you can upgrade your dental but that costs you about $1000 a year to get $5000 worth of coverage for the family.
I know this because it happened to me. I was a year into SDS and got promoted to LT. but I couldn't pass it up to wait the 2 years because I was on the 2006 list that was cut..
If you have no desire to become a captain or above then financially and time wise it doesn't make economic sense. However if you have the desire to get LCD or LSA then you have no choice then to take the rank.
You must consider how far away from top pay you are and where you are on the list. I took a 1 year step back in pay scale. When I should have hit top pay SDS in 2 years I had to wait the full 3 because I took the promotion.. If anyone sees it differently please correct me but I have walked in those shoes and I know the deal
UC5673 said
Jun 28, 2015
I think you nailed it...
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 28, 2015
That was a good post but where does it say you can't take a pay cut when promoted? That's possibly going to happen after the PBA PERB hearing to SGTs promoted in 2012.. I posted a thread about it but no one has answers. What if you don't even know your taking a pay cut because of unfinalized contracts? Will that be adjusted?
que1999 said
Jun 28, 2015
AnybodyseenRichie wrote:
That was a good post but where does it say you can't take a pay cut when promoted? That's possibly going to happen after the PBA PERB hearing to SGTs promoted in 2012.. I posted a thread about it but no one has answers. What if you don't even know your taking a pay cut because of unfinalized contracts? Will that be adjusted?
I would be very surprised if in the Civil Service laws or even in the City Charter somewhere there isn't something that states a lower rank is not allowed to be paid a higher salary than the next higher rank. Adjustments should be made accordingly. And as for the different contract dates, it should apply to that specific time frame for each rank. For example, if PO base salary goes to $80,000 for that first year from August 2010 to lets say August 2011... Then they should look at the salary for each of the steps for Sgt at that year, and if lower, there should be retro. That's the only thing that makes sense. Just because all the contract time periods vary doesn't mean the salary for that specific time period should be irrelevant. If for the same time period, PO base salary is higher than Sgt and the City doesn't pay out retro.... I would imagine that should be a lawsuit. BUT, I cannot say for certain, and we all know the City doesn't play fairly, so that is just my guess. Very good question, good luck finding the answer.
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 29, 2015
My idea is in the event of this happening you should receive retro as if you were at the next higher step.. If that next step be top pay then so be it.. That could owe Sgts a couple years of 4th to 5th step retro which would be a huge check. Haven't had any luck finding this rule or law but I figured there are 100's of other sgts who are affected and possibly that know about this... or possibly have not even realized this yet???
UC5673 said
Jun 29, 2015
Call the Payroll and Benefits Division at 646-610-6160. There is an Asian Pacific (female) Director down there that is has a wealth of knowledge on the subject. I forget her name... She helped me during my transition from DT2 to SGT. You will find that she will reiterate what "One Porkchop" had stated perviously...
Good luck!
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 30, 2015
Food for thought on the subject... A top pay 1st grade det making Sgt... Now what? Does he drop to top pay Sgt or remain the same.. (Let's pretend that a 1st grader would actually do this for a second)
Boogie Knight said
Jun 30, 2015
a 1st grade detective is making lieutenant pay and can make $150,000 easy.
Centurion said
Jun 30, 2015
A top pay SDS goes to top pay lieutenant if they get promoted. I personally know of two people that did so.
UC5673 said
Jul 1, 2015
You don't go down in salary regardless of what discretionary rank you are in. But just for laughs, does a person who gets demoted loose the salary too or just the rank ?
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jul 1, 2015
With all this being said then guys promoted after 2012 should be in for major retro as they should have possibly went straight to top pay!
que1999 said
Jul 1, 2015
I've always heard you lose the title, but not the pay. Always heard that civil service law doesn't allow a reduction in salary... Never known anyone that could verify it though. You can never go down in salary, just up. Anybodyseenrichie makes a good point... The last step for the rank of Sgt in 2015 before hitting top pay is $84,628. The POs are out of contract for the past 5 years. If the POs get any contract %'s that put their top pay at *MORE* than $84,628... What happens then? Does every current Sgt go to the next step that is higher than $84,628? Well..... that would be top pay Sgt under the current contract. It's going to be very interesting to see how PERB plays out....
wereinbacklog said
Jul 1, 2015
UC5673 wrote:
You don't go down in salary regardless of what discretionary rank you are in. But just for laughs, does a person who gets demoted loose the salary too or just the rank ?
Just the rank
Boogie Knight said
Jul 1, 2015
wereinbacklog wrote:
UC5673 wrote:
You don't go down in salary regardless of what discretionary rank you are in. But just for laughs, does a person who gets demoted loose the salary too or just the rank ?
Just the rank
I concur. There is some obscure labor law somewhere that reflects that. It is not done often, actually extremely rare like the Dodo bird, high ranking Umos, although half of those above lieutenant should be demoted because they are responsible for a lot of the dark times of the job. Indirectly, but I believe many a times - directly. So if that pool were to get reprimanded to the point of demotion for the $h!T they we all they do, and all too often get away with, then the job would have thousands of more Police Officers for all out. With base salaries of $195,000 of course. So imagine with the overtime, what it would do to the City.
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jul 1, 2015
We def need to keep this going to make anyone affected aware - who knows if the Union will back us up
One porkchop said
Jul 1, 2015
Yes this is true..but top pay is exactly the same for sds and top pay it...so it's not like u go to top pay...your salary just doesn't change...but u actually lose paper money...u work 30 minutes a day longer and lose your chart days ...all for no monetary pay raise...if you have no desire to move past the rank of lt..then why take it if u have sds...in the end it's all about the money which is exactly the same and time with your family which is worse when u take the rank...and if you are sds chances are you are in a nice investigative unit where the ot is plentysome...don't get me,wrong the lt rank is good but dollar for dollar sds is the better option in my opinion
DETSGT said
Jul 4, 2015
If your not moving past LT then the end goal should be LCD or LSA.
Absolutely Not. The reason for this is because a lieutenant salary upon promotion up until you reach top pay will always be a little more that an SDS/SSA.. Being that you cant take a pay cut when you get promoted, you will get a raise. You will then go to step 1 Lt. SO you will receive your raise. Now. Top pay SDS/SSA is the same exact salary as top pay LT...So lets say you are 2 years and 10 months into you SDS pay scale...2 more months to get to top pay ( same amount as top pay LT). Then you take the promotion to Lt. You will get a pay raise and Go to step 1 LT. And have to wait the 3 years to get to top pay when you are only 2 months away now. You have to pass up on the promotion until you hit top pay SDS this way there is no pay cut but there is no raise either.. What you lose is your chart days for 7 years, and instead of working 8:15 tour you work 8:45 and get to wear a white shirt, go to traffic stat and compstat and get your balls kicked over nonsense and see your dental coverage decrease. As it is now I think you total family allowance for dental is $1500 a year for EVERYONE covered. So if you have 3 children that $1500 has to last for you your spouse and 3 kids. That's 300 each a year. They have an option where you can upgrade your dental but that costs you about $1000 a year to get $5000 worth of coverage for the family.
I know this because it happened to me. I was a year into SDS and got promoted to LT. but I couldn't pass it up to wait the 2 years because I was on the 2006 list that was cut..
If you have no desire to become a captain or above then financially and time wise it doesn't make economic sense. However if you have the desire to get LCD or LSA then you have no choice then to take the rank.
You must consider how far away from top pay you are and where you are on the list. I took a 1 year step back in pay scale. When I should have hit top pay SDS in 2 years I had to wait the full 3 because I took the promotion.. If anyone sees it differently please correct me but I have walked in those shoes and I know the deal
I think you nailed it...
I would be very surprised if in the Civil Service laws or even in the City Charter somewhere there isn't something that states a lower rank is not allowed to be paid a higher salary than the next higher rank. Adjustments should be made accordingly. And as for the different contract dates, it should apply to that specific time frame for each rank. For example, if PO base salary goes to $80,000 for that first year from August 2010 to lets say August 2011... Then they should look at the salary for each of the steps for Sgt at that year, and if lower, there should be retro. That's the only thing that makes sense. Just because all the contract time periods vary doesn't mean the salary for that specific time period should be irrelevant. If for the same time period, PO base salary is higher than Sgt and the City doesn't pay out retro.... I would imagine that should be a lawsuit. BUT, I cannot say for certain, and we all know the City doesn't play fairly, so that is just my guess. Very good question, good luck finding the answer.
Call the Payroll and Benefits Division at 646-610-6160. There is an Asian Pacific (female) Director down there that is has a wealth of knowledge on the subject. I forget her name... She helped me during my transition from DT2 to SGT. You will find that she will reiterate what "One Porkchop" had stated perviously...
Good luck!
a 1st grade detective is making lieutenant pay and can make $150,000 easy.
You don't go down in salary regardless of what discretionary rank you are in. But just for laughs, does a person who gets demoted loose the salary too or just the rank ?
Just the rank
I concur. There is some obscure labor law somewhere that reflects that. It is not done often, actually extremely rare like the Dodo bird, high ranking Umos, although half of those above lieutenant should be demoted because they are responsible for a lot of the dark times of the job. Indirectly, but I believe many a times - directly. So if that pool were to get reprimanded to the point of demotion for the $h!T they we all they do, and all too often get away with, then the job would have thousands of more Police Officers for all out. With base salaries of $195,000 of course. So imagine with the overtime, what it would do to the City.
Yes this is true..but top pay is exactly the same for sds and top pay it...so it's not like u go to top pay...your salary just doesn't change...but u actually lose paper money...u work 30 minutes a day longer and lose your chart days ...all for no monetary pay raise...if you have no desire to move past the rank of lt..then why take it if u have sds...in the end it's all about the money which is exactly the same and time with your family which is worse when u take the rank...and if you are sds chances are you are in a nice investigative unit where the ot is plentysome...don't get me,wrong the lt rank is good but dollar for dollar sds is the better option in my opinion