Does anyone know what would happen if cops recieve a PERB award that puts them above a base pay sgt??? No one i ask has an answer and the union wasnt much help.
-- Edited by AnybodyseenRichie on Saturday 20th of June 2015 07:50:05 PM
fedup said
Jun 20, 2015
yep just a 10 percent raise over five year would put a top pay cop at about 87k per year base not including and longevity holidy etc. It's happened before around 10 years ago
DETSGT said
Jun 20, 2015
I don't remember that.
Although there is nothing in the contracts that says a sgt has to make more then a cop.
Also i hope the pba fairs very well in perb. Shame on the other unions for accepting a contract before perb is done. What difference would a few months have made?
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 20, 2015
As per the new Sgt contract in 2012 a newly promoted Sgt earns $80560... If the PBA for example who expired in 2010 gets their 2 year award of 3&3 (hypothetical) they will jump to $81146 as of their 2012 rate passing Sgt for that year. I know a few years back they did pass because of a higher percentage raise wich was corrected shortly after.. They will even pass a Sgt with 2 or 3 years in rank possibly!
Semp1 said
Jun 20, 2015
They would adjust starting pay the same way they did the last contract. A Sergeant has never made less than a Police Officer. It was adjusted last time and it will be adjusted this time if it shall occur. Which is why before the most recent SBA contract the difference between starting pay Sgt and top pay PO was less than $2k. Because they adjusted the pay scale. After the last raise PO's were higher than starting Sergeants Until the city adjusted it after a couple months
-- Edited by Semp1 on Saturday 20th of June 2015 08:25:30 PM
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 20, 2015
It wasn't adjusted last time specifically because of the pay disparity - it was because of the reopener clause which wound up covering the issue.. Also you would need to look back at the 2012 rates of pay and compare because Sgts are now current and have a few more raises after 2012. So no one getting promoted now would notice a drop in pay until after the PBA catches up in the future..
Semp1 said
Jun 20, 2015
well I think basically the best way to say it is we will have to wait and see and hopefully all unions are happy with the outcome.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 21st of June 2015 12:36:20 AM
onthelevel said
Jun 21, 2015
The other unions have reopener clauses for that reason. By civil service law, each rank has to be a certain % higher from the previous rank.
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 21, 2015
Where can you find the civil service law or is that another cop myth
fedup said
Jun 21, 2015
there is no reopener clause in the current sergeant contract or LT contract but there is one for the detective contract. You might start to see a return to the bad old days of no one taking a sergeants test due to the fact that a 5 year cop has to wait to 9 years to get promoted then take a pay cut from years 9 to 13 only to make it up largely on the back end at year 15 and only to supplement his retirement however not getting overtime may mean a smaller pension then a top pay PO. The city is digging itself a hole and will continue to do so until the department is comprised of traffic agents and crossing guards.
2Hashmarks said
Jun 23, 2015
If that happened all sgts at bottom pay would be bumped up to the next teir on the pay scale to be above P.O. pay. Its a win win for all
Liberal Tools said
Jun 23, 2015
2Hashmarks wrote:
If that happened all sgts at bottom pay would be bumped up to the next teir on the pay scale to be above P.O. pay. Its a win win for all
Where did you get that info from?
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jun 23, 2015
Is that a retro active bump? Cause it should be... Because if that's the case then those affected could be bumped to top pay after promotion. Think of it how detectives go right to top pay - same thing.
Where we find the answer is the real question.
delayed63 said
Jun 30, 2015
they would just adjust the SGT steps. A PO going to a newly promoted Sgt wouldn't go to top pay. Plus even though there might not be a re-open clause in the SGT contract, a top pay Sgt has to make a certain percentage more then a top pay Cop.
JohnnyCakes said
Jul 16, 2015
THERE IS NO REOPENED CLAUSE FOR THIS RECENT CONTRACT!
That being said the Deblasio administration has no obligation to maintain parity pay between the rank of cop and sgt. This has happened before where a top pay cop made more than a new rookie sgt. The re opener clause of the last contract fixed that but not before a year or two. Being that there is no re opener clause this time around I see no reason why the mayor will want to hand out free money to sgts this time around. As a result you will see Sgts making less than top pay cops until they hit top salary. No big deal especially when you have some Lts making more than Captains on this job.
These are some interesting times coming especially if the PBA gets 3% &3% or even more.....STAY TUNED!
I am sure glad I am a Lt.
-- Edited by JohnnyCakes on Thursday 16th of July 2015 03:48:02 PM
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jul 16, 2015
The reopener clause had to do with percentage raises.. This is a completely different issue and doesn't need a reopener for correcting... If sgts get 1% and cops get 10% then we are screwed cause of no reopener but if cops surpass sgts starting pay its a completely different issue all together.. Also LT's don't earn more than Captains - it all overtime.. It's not comparable. That goes for any rank to rank.
Years back cops passed sgts and was corrected.. The reopener happened to have covered the correction.. But it should have been corrected regardless of that cause you can't have your pay reduced if you get promoted.. See how detectives go to the next salary step on the scale which is top pay.
JohnnyCakes said
Jul 16, 2015
Once more I say to you that this administration has not shown a willingness to correct any monetary situation regarding parity. Couple this with the fact t hat there is not a re opener clause then you pretty much can conclude that Deblasio shall not do the right thing for the very cops he hates. he will let this play out until the next administration takes over. Top salary cops will be making more than sgts between the pay scale of 1-4 years. At least when they hit top salary sgt they will suddenly make more than top pay cop.
best thing one can do is study and take that Lt's exam so one can not be bothered with supervising people that make more money than yourself.
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jul 16, 2015
You're right the city won't just do it on its own to correct anything. This thread was started because people rumor that it's against some city laws somewhere and I we should all try to find out if that's true at all..
TheJobLovesYou said
Jul 16, 2015
Surprised no one in BMOC asked this question already, doesn't the SBA come in one day and do paperwork.
AnybodyseenRichie said
Jul 17, 2015
Yes the SBA does have a representative come by.. Maybe not Mullins but when I went through it was a VP.. Maybe one or two of you 100 going in next month can mention this and get the ball rolling and make the union aware because it will affect you as well in the future. Don't forget all the sgts that work for the union I'm sure have a little more time in rank and this has no bearing on their salary so they probably aren't thinking about it....
ChargesandSpecs said
Jul 17, 2015
As president of SBA Mullins has sued the city more than any other union. Yes, there is no reopener but dont think that Mullins and the SBA board wont fight hard for its membership to make sure that top pay cop doesn't makes more than rookie Sgt. On base salary.
I will say this the whole idea of no one taking the sgt exam if something like this were to happen I believe is a farce. You guys have to understand the only way a Tier 3 member can increase their pension is by ranking up. Base salary is pensionable for them not OT.
-- Edited by ChargesandSpecs on Friday 17th of July 2015 01:41:25 PM
Does anyone know what would happen if cops recieve a PERB award that puts them above a base pay sgt??? No one i ask has an answer and the union wasnt much help.
-- Edited by AnybodyseenRichie on Saturday 20th of June 2015 07:50:05 PM
yep just a 10 percent raise over five year would put a top pay cop at about 87k per year base not including and longevity holidy etc. It's happened before around 10 years ago
Although there is nothing in the contracts that says a sgt has to make more then a cop.
Also i hope the pba fairs very well in perb. Shame on the other unions for accepting a contract before perb is done. What difference would a few months have made?
As per the new Sgt contract in 2012 a newly promoted Sgt earns $80560... If the PBA for example who expired in 2010 gets their 2 year award of 3&3 (hypothetical) they will jump to $81146 as of their 2012 rate passing Sgt for that year. I know a few years back they did pass because of a higher percentage raise wich was corrected shortly after.. They will even pass a Sgt with 2 or 3 years in rank possibly!
They would adjust starting pay the same way they did the last contract. A Sergeant has never made less than a Police Officer. It was adjusted last time and it will be adjusted this time if it shall occur. Which is why before the most recent SBA contract the difference between starting pay Sgt and top pay PO was less than $2k. Because they adjusted the pay scale. After the last raise PO's were higher than starting Sergeants Until the city adjusted it after a couple months
-- Edited by Semp1 on Saturday 20th of June 2015 08:25:30 PM
well I think basically the best way to say it is we will have to wait and see and hopefully all unions are happy with the outcome.
-- Edited by Semp1 on Sunday 21st of June 2015 12:36:20 AM
there is no reopener clause in the current sergeant contract or LT contract but there is one for the detective contract. You might start to see a return to the bad old days of no one taking a sergeants test due to the fact that a 5 year cop has to wait to 9 years to get promoted then take a pay cut from years 9 to 13 only to make it up largely on the back end at year 15 and only to supplement his retirement however not getting overtime may mean a smaller pension then a top pay PO. The city is digging itself a hole and will continue to do so until the department is comprised of traffic agents and crossing guards.
Where did you get that info from?
Where we find the answer is the real question.
they would just adjust the SGT steps. A PO going to a newly promoted Sgt wouldn't go to top pay. Plus even though there might not be a re-open clause in the SGT contract, a top pay Sgt has to make a certain percentage more then a top pay Cop.
THERE IS NO REOPENED CLAUSE FOR THIS RECENT CONTRACT!
That being said the Deblasio administration has no obligation to maintain parity pay between the rank of cop and sgt. This has happened before where a top pay cop made more than a new rookie sgt. The re opener clause of the last contract fixed that but not before a year or two. Being that there is no re opener clause this time around I see no reason why the mayor will want to hand out free money to sgts this time around. As a result you will see Sgts making less than top pay cops until they hit top salary. No big deal especially when you have some Lts making more than Captains on this job.
These are some interesting times coming especially if the PBA gets 3% &3% or even more.....STAY TUNED!
I am sure glad I am a Lt.
-- Edited by JohnnyCakes on Thursday 16th of July 2015 03:48:02 PM
Years back cops passed sgts and was corrected.. The reopener happened to have covered the correction.. But it should have been corrected regardless of that cause you can't have your pay reduced if you get promoted.. See how detectives go to the next salary step on the scale which is top pay.
best thing one can do is study and take that Lt's exam so one can not be bothered with supervising people that make more money than yourself.
As president of SBA Mullins has sued the city more than any other union. Yes, there is no reopener but dont think that Mullins and the SBA board wont fight hard for its membership to make sure that top pay cop doesn't makes more than rookie Sgt. On base salary.
I will say this the whole idea of no one taking the sgt exam if something like this were to happen I believe is a farce. You guys have to understand the only way a Tier 3 member can increase their pension is by ranking up. Base salary is pensionable for them not OT.
-- Edited by ChargesandSpecs on Friday 17th of July 2015 01:41:25 PM