We are as disappointed in this test as you. We prepared you to the best of our ability and we have been preparing students for 12 years. I took the test and cant believe that they would ask you 29-30 reading comprehension, grammar, judgment, and supervisory questions. This is a major deviation to any NYPD promotional exam EVER given.
My advice:
MAIL in your protest session TODAY! Then relax and wait for the tentative DCAS answer key. Once DCAS releases the answer key, PROTEST every question you get wrong (especially the reading comprehension, grammar, judgment, and supervisory questions.) PROTEST PROTEST - PROTEST
If they provided you with a reference book on the Notice of Exam, you could have been properly prepared for this exam BUT they did NOT!
Lets see how they defend these questions.
I would make DCAS regret putting questions on the exam that they did not provide you with proper guidance.
Please let me know of any thoughts you have - Mike - myano@msn.com
Good Luck and stay safe,
The Fast Track Team
2015 = crickets
__________________
Su Madre 24 said
May 7, 2015
I would imagine they are quiet this time around because they haven't taken the test.
TiNmAn said
May 8, 2015
Elite did explain the process of the protest and how we should tackle questions we want to protest
Samiam32 said
May 8, 2015
This is an explanation:
Protest tips and example of a successful protest
Permalink
Some key points in order to ensure your protest(s) is/are successful:
Do not let DCAS reviewers do the work; i.e. cite the material, submit copies of PG procedures with highlights, and map out exactly where they should go in a clear, concise way.
Prove that their proposed right answer is defective and the answer you selected is just as good as or better than their proposed answer choice.
Your goal is to get a double answer, not for the question to be thrown out. If the question is thrown-out, everyone gets the 1 point; if it's a double answer, then only those who picked what you picked as the right answer gets the 1 point.
Proof-read (have someone read) your protest. The more articulate you are, the better your chances of a successful protest. In borderline cases, having a well-written proposal might just make the reviewer think that you actually do know what you are talking about.
State the question and/or the question number--you'll be surprised at the number of protests submitted without this crucial information
Do not be emotional. Protesting a question because this is not how it's done in "real life" will not go over well. Do not dispute facts; state your case citing printed sources (not stories of how it's done in your pct.)
Your final paragraph should be a summary, just in case the DCAS reviewer didn't get it/didn't read it the first time around.
The following protest was successfuly submitted by a Rising Star instructor for the 2003 Lieutenant exam:
Protest of Proposed Key Answer
The City of New York Department of Citywide Administrative Services proposed answer key for the above referenced promotional exam records choice "c" as a correct answer for question number 59, which read as follows:
A Lieutenant responds to a high school, where a Police Officer has a fourteen (14) year old student in custody for possession of a loaded firearm on the school grounds. According to Patrol Guide Series 215, "Juvenile Matters", the Lieutenant would be most correct to instruct the officer that the juvenile
a. should be taken into custody as a juvenile delinquent
b. should be delivered directly to family court if the court is in session
c. may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners
d. should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present
Several crucial facts indicate that choice "d" is the most correct answer, and is as good or better than the proposed key answer choice "c".
When examining proposed key answer choice "c", a careful reader is led to believe that the juvenile will be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners. This is clearly a violation of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 (Arrest of Juvenile Offender) step 13a, which states under the duties of Desk Officer:
"Direct that juvenile offender be placed in forward patrol wagon compartment and adult prisoners in rear compartment if being transported at the same time". Proposed key answer choice "c" indicates that the juvenile: "may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners". The word "with" in the choice clearly leads a careful reader to believe that the juvenile will be transported with adult prisoners because proposed key answer choice "c" was not qualified correctly by indicating that the juvenile offender will be placed in the forward patrol wagon compartment and the adult prisoners will be placed in the rear compartment. In fact, Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language uses its first definition of the word "with" to mean "accompanied by; accompanying." Thus, by stating the words "with adult prisoners", and not using the correct qualification of separate compartments, the reader is led to believe that the juvenile is being transported together with adult prisoners, in the same compartment. Had proposed key answer choice "c" read: "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon as adult prisoners", it would have appeared to be more correct than using the words
" with adult prisoners". In any event, proposed key answer choice "c" needs the qualification of informing the test taker that the juvenile will be placed in separate compartments to make it a correct statement that does not violate patrol guide procedure.
Additionally, by stating in proposed key answer choice "c" that the juvenile "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners", one would be violating step 13 of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 which directs the Desk Officer to "Keep juvenile offender segregated from adult prisoners while in custody". It would be imprudent to assume the writers of the test meant for the test takers to know that the juvenile would be segregated in a separate compartment without actually placing that important qualifier into proposed key answer choice "c".
Choice "d" is indisputably the most correct statement for the question based upon several facts. In Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 step 3, it directs the Arresting Officer "
Do not question (juvenile) until arrival of parent, guardian, etc.". Step 4 of this procedure then directs the Arresting Officer to "Advise at same time, juvenile AND parent, guardian, etc., of constitutional rights PRIOR to interrogation". Clearly then, choice "d" which states that the juvenile "should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present" is an absolutely true statement given the circumstances outlined in the stem of the question. The note after step 4a of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 goes on to direct that "
If the parent/guardian can not be notified, a juvenile MAY be questioned ONLY after:
a. Every reasonable effort has been made to notify parent/guardian
b. Determining the necessity for questioning at this time
c. Considering the age, apparent intelligence of the child, and the ability of the juvenile to understand Miranda warnings
Notwithstanding the above, because the stem of the question did not give the test taker any of these circumstances under which to question a juvenile without first notifying and securing the presence of the parent/guardian, choice "d" is clearly a true statement under the general terms and circumstances outlined. Normally, if there are no exceptional circumstances and/or exigencies, juveniles should generally be questioned in the presence of their parent/guardian.
Furthermore, the presence or absence of a parent/guardian is a factor to be considered in determining whether or not to question a child. Section 305.2 subdivision 8 of The Family Court Act of the State of New York states that "In determining the suitability of questioning and determining the reasonable period of time for questioning such a child, the childs age, the presence or absence of his parents or other persons legally responsible for his care and notification pursuant to subdivision three shall be included among relevant considerations".
In fact, New York State courts have held that a child should be questioned in the presence of a parent/guardian. In the case of PEOPLE of the State New York v. Alfonso Castro, 462 N.Y.S.2d 369, the Supreme Court, Criminal Term, Queens County heard the case of a fourteen year old juvenile offender arrested for robbery. In the courts decision, Judge Eugene P. Bambrick cited previous New York State case law regarding the questioning of juveniles. Notably, in Matter of Penn, 402 N.Y.S.2d 155, a fourteen year old was arrested for Robbery first degree and Burglary second degree, wherein "the Court declares that proper safeguarding of the child's privilege against self-incrimination suggest that a child should not be questioned until at least one of his parents has been notified and is present". To not do so may lead to circumstances whereas "the interrogation of the defendant during which neither his mother nor the attorney was present was ruled inadmissible", as in People v. Kocik, 407 N.Y.S.2d 929, and People v. Bevilacqua, 410 N.Y.S.2d 549.
At the core of this argument is line number 39 on page 2 of active Legal Bureau Bulletin Vol. 13 No. 4, which alerts members of the service that: "Ordinarily the questioning of a child without such person (parent/guardian) should not be done".
Therefore, because the stem of the question gave the test taker general terms and ordinary custody of a juvenile offender, with nothing more, and because choice "d" did not qualify its statement any further, it becomes an acceptable and accurate statement in general/ordinary terms.
In summation, choice "c" without any further qualification is an absolutely inaccurate statement as written. Choice "d" on the other hand, is a correct statement due to the fact that the stem of the question made no reference to, nor implied any extraordinary circumstances that would require the juvenile to be questioned outside the presence of a parent/guardian.
Based upon the foregoing facts, choice "d" is noticeably the most correct answer, and as such, should be the key answer for question number 59. It is therefore respectfully requested that the Test Validation Board change the final key answer for question number 59 to read "d".
* See attachments of highlighted documentation to referenced materials
sixmonthwonder said
May 8, 2015
Wow, if the protest has to look like that I'm screwed. Very scholarly work there, kudos to the instructor who wrote that up.
machine said
May 8, 2015
All that for one single question? Yeah, we are screwed lol
My advice:
MAIL in your protest session TODAY! Then relax and wait for the tentative DCAS answer key. Once DCAS releases the answer key, PROTEST every question you get wrong (especially the reading comprehension, grammar, judgment, and supervisory questions.) PROTEST PROTEST - PROTEST
If they provided you with a reference book on the Notice of Exam, you could have been properly prepared for this exam BUT they did NOT!
Lets see how they defend these questions.
I would make DCAS regret putting questions on the exam that they did not provide you with proper guidance.
Please let me know of any thoughts you have - Mike - myano@msn.com
Good Luck and stay safe,
The Fast Track Team
2015 = crickets
Protest tips and example of a successful protest
Permalink
Some key points in order to ensure your protest(s) is/are successful:
Do not let DCAS reviewers do the work; i.e. cite the material, submit copies of PG procedures with highlights, and map out exactly where they should go in a clear, concise way.
Prove that their proposed right answer is defective and the answer you selected is just as good as or better than their proposed answer choice.
Your goal is to get a double answer, not for the question to be thrown out. If the question is thrown-out, everyone gets the 1 point; if it's a double answer, then only those who picked what you picked as the right answer gets the 1 point.
Proof-read (have someone read) your protest. The more articulate you are, the better your chances of a successful protest. In borderline cases, having a well-written proposal might just make the reviewer think that you actually do know what you are talking about.
State the question and/or the question number--you'll be surprised at the number of protests submitted without this crucial information
Do not be emotional. Protesting a question because this is not how it's done in "real life" will not go over well. Do not dispute facts; state your case citing printed sources (not stories of how it's done in your pct.)
Your final paragraph should be a summary, just in case the DCAS reviewer didn't get it/didn't read it the first time around.
The following protest was successfuly submitted by a Rising Star instructor for the 2003 Lieutenant exam:
Protest of Proposed Key Answer
The City of New York Department of Citywide Administrative Services proposed answer key for the above referenced promotional exam records choice "c" as a correct answer for question number 59, which read as follows:
A Lieutenant responds to a high school, where a Police Officer has a fourteen (14) year old student in custody for possession of a loaded firearm on the school grounds. According to Patrol Guide Series 215, "Juvenile Matters", the Lieutenant would be most correct to instruct the officer that the juvenile
a. should be taken into custody as a juvenile delinquent
b. should be delivered directly to family court if the court is in session
c. may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners
d. should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present
Several crucial facts indicate that choice "d" is the most correct answer, and is as good or better than the proposed key answer choice "c".
When examining proposed key answer choice "c", a careful reader is led to believe that the juvenile will be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners. This is clearly a violation of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 (Arrest of Juvenile Offender) step 13a, which states under the duties of Desk Officer:
"Direct that juvenile offender be placed in forward patrol wagon compartment and adult prisoners in rear compartment if being transported at the same time". Proposed key answer choice "c" indicates that the juvenile: "may be transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners". The word "with" in the choice clearly leads a careful reader to believe that the juvenile will be transported with adult prisoners because proposed key answer choice "c" was not qualified correctly by indicating that the juvenile offender will be placed in the forward patrol wagon compartment and the adult prisoners will be placed in the rear compartment. In fact, Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language uses its first definition of the word "with" to mean "accompanied by; accompanying." Thus, by stating the words "with adult prisoners", and not using the correct qualification of separate compartments, the reader is led to believe that the juvenile is being transported together with adult prisoners, in the same compartment. Had proposed key answer choice "c" read: "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon as adult prisoners", it would have appeared to be more correct than using the words
" with adult prisoners". In any event, proposed key answer choice "c" needs the qualification of informing the test taker that the juvenile will be placed in separate compartments to make it a correct statement that does not violate patrol guide procedure.
Additionally, by stating in proposed key answer choice "c" that the juvenile "maybe transported in the same patrol wagon with adult prisoners", one would be violating step 13 of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 which directs the Desk Officer to "Keep juvenile offender segregated from adult prisoners while in custody". It would be imprudent to assume the writers of the test meant for the test takers to know that the juvenile would be segregated in a separate compartment without actually placing that important qualifier into proposed key answer choice "c".
Choice "d" is indisputably the most correct statement for the question based upon several facts. In Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 step 3, it directs the Arresting Officer "
Do not question (juvenile) until arrival of parent, guardian, etc.". Step 4 of this procedure then directs the Arresting Officer to "Advise at same time, juvenile AND parent, guardian, etc., of constitutional rights PRIOR to interrogation". Clearly then, choice "d" which states that the juvenile "should not be questioned unless the parent/guardian is present" is an absolutely true statement given the circumstances outlined in the stem of the question. The note after step 4a of Patrol Guide procedure 215-10 goes on to direct that "
If the parent/guardian can not be notified, a juvenile MAY be questioned ONLY after:
a. Every reasonable effort has been made to notify parent/guardian
b. Determining the necessity for questioning at this time
c. Considering the age, apparent intelligence of the child, and the ability of the juvenile to understand Miranda warnings
Notwithstanding the above, because the stem of the question did not give the test taker any of these circumstances under which to question a juvenile without first notifying and securing the presence of the parent/guardian, choice "d" is clearly a true statement under the general terms and circumstances outlined. Normally, if there are no exceptional circumstances and/or exigencies, juveniles should generally be questioned in the presence of their parent/guardian.
Furthermore, the presence or absence of a parent/guardian is a factor to be considered in determining whether or not to question a child. Section 305.2 subdivision 8 of The Family Court Act of the State of New York states that "In determining the suitability of questioning and determining the reasonable period of time for questioning such a child, the childs age, the presence or absence of his parents or other persons legally responsible for his care and notification pursuant to subdivision three shall be included among relevant considerations".
In fact, New York State courts have held that a child should be questioned in the presence of a parent/guardian. In the case of PEOPLE of the State New York v. Alfonso Castro, 462 N.Y.S.2d 369, the Supreme Court, Criminal Term, Queens County heard the case of a fourteen year old juvenile offender arrested for robbery. In the courts decision, Judge Eugene P. Bambrick cited previous New York State case law regarding the questioning of juveniles. Notably, in Matter of Penn, 402 N.Y.S.2d 155, a fourteen year old was arrested for Robbery first degree and Burglary second degree, wherein "the Court declares that proper safeguarding of the child's privilege against self-incrimination suggest that a child should not be questioned until at least one of his parents has been notified and is present". To not do so may lead to circumstances whereas "the interrogation of the defendant during which neither his mother nor the attorney was present was ruled inadmissible", as in People v. Kocik, 407 N.Y.S.2d 929, and People v. Bevilacqua, 410 N.Y.S.2d 549.
At the core of this argument is line number 39 on page 2 of active Legal Bureau Bulletin Vol. 13 No. 4, which alerts members of the service that: "Ordinarily the questioning of a child without such person (parent/guardian) should not be done".
Therefore, because the stem of the question gave the test taker general terms and ordinary custody of a juvenile offender, with nothing more, and because choice "d" did not qualify its statement any further, it becomes an acceptable and accurate statement in general/ordinary terms.
In summation, choice "c" without any further qualification is an absolutely inaccurate statement as written. Choice "d" on the other hand, is a correct statement due to the fact that the stem of the question made no reference to, nor implied any extraordinary circumstances that would require the juvenile to be questioned outside the presence of a parent/guardian.
Based upon the foregoing facts, choice "d" is noticeably the most correct answer, and as such, should be the key answer for question number 59. It is therefore respectfully requested that the Test Validation Board change the final key answer for question number 59 to read "d".
* See attachments of highlighted documentation to referenced materials