Did anyone else get a questionnaire from the re-engineering team about reasons for not taking the Capt rank? It basically asked you if you did not take the last test, why not? Maybe "they" are looking to improve the rank.
wereinbacklog said
Jun 21, 2014
I think all Lt's received that email. I actually wrote a very long essay about how horrible the rank is and ways to improve it. I suggest everyone interested in becoming a Captain should fill it out. Hopefully something positive comes out of it.
SGT1701 said
Jun 21, 2014
Yeap, I got it and I sent it right back. Said the #1 overwhelming reason why nobody wants the rank is the horrendous split RDO chart. Understood a capt is expected to make some sacrifices, but having monday and thursday RDOs with a midnight duty on your first one back is worse than a recruit's schedule in the Academy, so this needs to be fixed. Understood they can't have every weekend off, but maybe see some weekend days, a piece of the weekend at least some of the time would be nice. At this stage in life most of us have families and kids at home, so the chart is one thing that should definitely be revamped. Understood a midnight duty and a compstat meeting and a parade detail in the command here and there, so some tour changes and RDO swaps here and there. I think we all get that. But it makes no difference whatsoever if I have either mon and wed RDOs, or Fri/Sat RDOs, as long as the coverage overlaps and the job is getting done, it serves absolutely no purpose to work a chart that could potentially destroy your home life.
Hopefully the powers that be care enough and possess the intellect to make a change that could benefit us and hundreds of others.
wereinbacklog said
Jun 21, 2014
They need to change the pay structure as well. It makes no sense that there are Lt's making more than DI's and Inspectors. Even if all they do is shorting the time to reach top pay it will have a positive affect. Maybe adding some overtime in cash as well. Hopefully the job does something about it cause as it currently stands that rank sucks.
Lew Bookman said
Jun 21, 2014
I don't think you would ever see cash OT. Maybe a change in the schedule but that is about it.
SGT1701 said
Jun 21, 2014
Agreed. Unfortunately when something of benefit is given back in contract negotiations (Cash OT, i.e.) you will never get it back.
Wannabecaptain said
Jun 21, 2014
wereinbacklog wrote:
They need to change the pay structure as well. It makes no sense that there are Lt's making more than DI's and Inspectors. Even if all they do is shorting the time to reach top pay it will have a positive affect. Maybe adding some overtime in cash as well. Hopefully the job does something about it cause as it currently stands that rank sucks.
There are very few Lieutenants making $160,000 or more. That is a lot of OT.
thisjobsucks said
Jun 22, 2014
Wannabecaptain wrote:
There are very few Lieutenants making $160,000 or more. That is a lot of OT.
I was pulling 165K + as a sergeant in Narco. Top pay LT's should have no problem pulling in 160k with OT. Unless you are on day tours and just like doing your 8:45 and going home. I was doing 150K as a 1st and 2nd year LT easily. LT's in Narco and the squad are pulling 170 to 190k a year
-- Edited by thisjobsucks on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 12:57:33 AM
wereinbacklog said
Jun 22, 2014
Yeah I really don't know what he's talking about. I pulled $145 k last year and I'm not even at top pay yet. Any Lt can easily make Captains salary.
Wannabecaptain said
Jun 22, 2014
wereinbacklog wrote:
Yeah I really don't know what he's talking about. I pulled $145 k last year and I'm not even at top pay yet. Any Lt can easily make Captains salary.
What is easy to you and easy to me are probably very different. A top pay Lt with 20 years on the job has an OT rate of about $90 and hour. The difference in base salary is 34k. That's about 31 hours a month. Outside of the SOL and maybe 1 other Lt in a command, not many are making that kind of OT. That is also going to add up to lots of RDOs spent at your command.
Wannabecaptain said
Jun 22, 2014
As for Narco, I would rather be the Captain making 165 to show up than the Sgt or Lt making 170 or 180 bleeding from the eyes. I don't know many people in Narcotics making easy money.
Lloyd Dobler said
Jun 22, 2014
uh, a cop can make 200k/year given enough OT. So what?
Overtime is over time.
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:15:43 AM
unborn said
Jun 22, 2014
Somewhat unrelated to the topic - but if any newly promoted captains are reading this - how much overtime does a captain wind up doing in an average month? I'm in a spot where I make zero for overtime so even if I got a decent amount of time overtime as a captain, I wouldn't mind so much.
Booking Fool said
Jun 22, 2014
That's a point most are forgetting. Captains don't just do their 40 hours and go home. My Co probably works 60 hours a week consistently. And if any of that time is Stat preparation you are not authorized to take it in time. You eat it. Any top pay LT on 4x12 or midnights that gets 20 hours a month is easily making 160. I know a LT on day tours in manhattan that made 185 last year. The point is everyone is taking this promotion for the pension and some are aspiring for more. But in reality, any Lt making a tour of ot a paycheck (not bleeding from the eyes) is making as much as a captain without the stresses.
Abeyance said
Jun 22, 2014
there are not many Lts on the top 400 list 'killing it', so to speak!
stiggityone said
Jun 22, 2014
I always find it funny how people talk about the benefits of staying a Lt...
Yet they post in a Captain's forum and sign up for every Captain's exam.
Abeyance said
Jun 22, 2014
good point!
HotMessBoogerCookie said
Jun 22, 2014
I agree Stiggy...everyone bashed me for studying for the Cpt exam telling me how bad it is meanwhile I have 11 years on and ambitious enough to take this rank...well I am on the list and if I eventually hate the rank at least I tried to better myself but apparently everyone knows better then I do but it all comes down to people who didn't pass to hate on people that did......
wereinbacklog said
Jun 23, 2014
Most people I speak with refuse to take the Captain exam because of financial reasons not because they can't pass it. I for one took the last one and failed but still studying for this one. I know CO's that regretted taking the rank because of the monetary loss. It's definitely a personal decision but there's a reason why the exam went from being administered every four years to now almost every year.
Wannabecaptain said
Jun 23, 2014
wereinbacklog wrote:
Most people I speak with refuse to take the Captain exam because of financial reasons not because they can't pass it. I for one took the last one and failed but still studying for this one. I know CO's that regretted taking the rank because of the monetary loss. It's definitely a personal decision but there's a reason why the exam went from being administered every four years to now almost every year.
I guess it depends where you are in your career too. I'm guaranteed a full Inspector pension. If I can build up enough time to retire two years early I'll be collecting a lot of money to stay home in my early forties. To each his own I guess.
wereinbacklog said
Jun 23, 2014
Wannabecaptain wrote:
wereinbacklog wrote:
Most people I speak with refuse to take the Captain exam because of financial reasons not because they can't pass it. I for one took the last one and failed but still studying for this one. I know CO's that regretted taking the rank because of the monetary loss. It's definitely a personal decision but there's a reason why the exam went from being administered every four years to now almost every year.
I guess it depends where you are in your career too. I'm guaranteed a full Inspector pension. If I can build up enough time to retire two years early I'll be collecting a lot of money to stay home in my early forties. To each his own I guess.
Same reason I'm taking the test again many years left before i can retire. Good luck with the upcoming promotion.
brat4914 said
Jun 23, 2014
If you have 20 or close to it and are making OT and have no desire to work forever or become chief.......financially it makes no sense......hence is in my case
-- Edited by brat4914 on Monday 23rd of June 2014 01:45:32 AM
Lloyd Dobler said
Jun 23, 2014
**** all that noise. I'm just sick of carrying a memo book.
Lloyd Dobler said
Jun 23, 2014
Booking Fool wrote:
That's a point most are forgetting. Captains don't just do their 40 hours and go home. My Co probably works 60 hours a week consistently. And if any of that time is Stat preparation you are not authorized to take it in time. You eat it. Any top pay LT on 4x12 or midnights that gets 20 hours a month is easily making 160. I know a LT on day tours in manhattan that made 185 last year. The point is everyone is taking this promotion for the pension and some are aspiring for more. But in reality, any Lt making a tour of ot a paycheck (not bleeding from the eyes) is making as much as a captain without the stresses.
you're correct. people who work an extra tour a paycheck ain't bleeding from the eyes. They're bleeding from their ******* after letting the job do that to them.
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Monday 23rd of June 2014 02:51:07 AM
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Monday 23rd of June 2014 02:52:16 AM
unborn said
Jun 23, 2014
Sweet, the weekly thread about why being a captain sucks.
I'll lend some credibility to the complaints when we begin to see captains taking voluntary demotions back to lieutenant.
Booking Fool said
Jun 24, 2014
I didn't care enough to read every comment on this thread, but I only saw one poster that said the rank sucks. I have every intention of eventually taking a captain promotion, but to lie to yourself and not admit truths is just juvenile. The argument of making $160k for walking in the door and not doing overtime is false for the most part. If you're a Co or Xo of a command you're doing overtime, for Time and on the arm. It's simply a fact. It's also a fact that if you're a Lt now and looking to leave and ot is not something that bothers you, then you absolutely can kill it and have a much better pension then a captain. I have 10 years. It makes absolute sense for me to become a captain. And after a few years of BS it's a great rank. But to not admit that as of now the rank sucks the first couple years is just dishonest.
Booking Fool said
Jun 24, 2014
Which I believe was the point of this entire thread. To answer the PC's survey, in an attempt to make the rank more desirable. Even if you think the rank is awesome as is, wouldn't you want it to improve? I took that survey too and gave my opinion on why many don't take the rank. Hopefully by the time I get that promotion, it has improved.
Abeyance said
Jun 24, 2014
Booking Fool wrote:
I didn't care enough to read every comment on this thread, but I only saw one poster that said the rank sucks. I have every intention of eventually taking a captain promotion, but to lie to yourself and not admit truths is just juvenile. The argument of making $160k for walking in the door and not doing overtime is false for the most part. If you're a Co or Xo of a command you're doing overtime, for Time and on the arm. It's simply a fact. It's also a fact that if you're a Lt now and looking to leave and ot is not something that bothers you, then you absolutely can kill itand have a much better pension then a captain. I have 10 years. It makes absolute sense for me to become a captain. And after a few years of BS it's a great rank. But to not admit that as of now the rank sucks the first couple years is just dishonest.
please use proper citation for quoting!
SGT1701 said
Jun 25, 2014
Lloyd Dobler wrote:
**** all that noise. I'm just sick of carrying a memo book.
Lmao, good one....I'm with you on this one, Lloyd!
Did anyone else get a questionnaire from the re-engineering team about reasons for not taking the Capt rank? It basically asked you if you did not take the last test, why not? Maybe "they" are looking to improve the rank.
Yeap, I got it and I sent it right back. Said the #1 overwhelming reason why nobody wants the rank is the horrendous split RDO chart. Understood a capt is expected to make some sacrifices, but having monday and thursday RDOs with a midnight duty on your first one back is worse than a recruit's schedule in the Academy, so this needs to be fixed. Understood they can't have every weekend off, but maybe see some weekend days, a piece of the weekend at least some of the time would be nice. At this stage in life most of us have families and kids at home, so the chart is one thing that should definitely be revamped. Understood a midnight duty and a compstat meeting and a parade detail in the command here and there, so some tour changes and RDO swaps here and there. I think we all get that. But it makes no difference whatsoever if I have either mon and wed RDOs, or Fri/Sat RDOs, as long as the coverage overlaps and the job is getting done, it serves absolutely no purpose to work a chart that could potentially destroy your home life.
Hopefully the powers that be care enough and possess the intellect to make a change that could benefit us and hundreds of others.
I don't think you would ever see cash OT. Maybe a change in the schedule but that is about it.
Agreed. Unfortunately when something of benefit is given back in contract negotiations (Cash OT, i.e.) you will never get it back.
There are very few Lieutenants making $160,000 or more. That is a lot of OT.
I was pulling 165K + as a sergeant in Narco. Top pay LT's should have no problem pulling in 160k with OT. Unless you are on day tours and just like doing your 8:45 and going home. I was doing 150K as a 1st and 2nd year LT easily. LT's in Narco and the squad are pulling 170 to 190k a year
-- Edited by thisjobsucks on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 12:57:33 AM
What is easy to you and easy to me are probably very different. A top pay Lt with 20 years on the job has an OT rate of about $90 and hour. The difference in base salary is 34k. That's about 31 hours a month. Outside of the SOL and maybe 1 other Lt in a command, not many are making that kind of OT. That is also going to add up to lots of RDOs spent at your command.
As for Narco, I would rather be the Captain making 165 to show up than the Sgt or Lt making 170 or 180 bleeding from the eyes. I don't know many people in Narcotics making easy money.
uh, a cop can make 200k/year given enough OT. So what?
Overtime is over time.
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 02:15:43 AM
Yet they post in a Captain's forum and sign up for every Captain's exam.
I guess it depends where you are in your career too. I'm guaranteed a full Inspector pension. If I can build up enough time to retire two years early I'll be collecting a lot of money to stay home in my early forties. To each his own I guess.
Same reason I'm taking the test again many years left before i can retire. Good luck with the upcoming promotion.
If you have 20 or close to it and are making OT and have no desire to work forever or become chief.......financially it makes no sense......hence is in my case
-- Edited by brat4914 on Monday 23rd of June 2014 01:45:32 AM
you're correct. people who work an extra tour a paycheck ain't bleeding from the eyes. They're bleeding from their ******* after letting the job do that to them.
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Monday 23rd of June 2014 02:51:07 AM
-- Edited by Lloyd Dobler on Monday 23rd of June 2014 02:52:16 AM
I'll lend some credibility to the complaints when we begin to see captains taking voluntary demotions back to lieutenant.
Lmao, good one....I'm with you on this one, Lloyd!