I demand an explanation as to why this exam was thirty-three percent longer with no extra time provided. I want to know exactly why thousands of cops were treated like lab rats on a day that shapes careers. I want to know EXACTLY what they were looking for, WHY they were looking for it, and WHY this exam in particular.
What was the purpose? If they were simply testing a new system or software, the extra questions did not have to be patrol guide questions. "What color is the sky? " would have had the same results.
Was it part of a bigger push to make the test more than 100 questions permanently? Was this just to see how many more questions they could squeeze into six hours? If that's the case, shame on them. Many people put their lives on hold to study for this exam. this research couldn't have been conducted on a Sanitation or even this job's entrance exam?
it certainly was not to research the effectiveness of their judgement type questions that plagued the lieutenant's exam. I didn't notice them.
Was the reason to add 30 more questions an attempt to stop us from putting together an accurate answer key before almighty DCAS published the results. Especially because this stunt was pulled along with DCAS telling us that the proposed answer key will NOT be put online and the only way to get the results is to attend the protest.
Was the purpose to see what people did when they realized DCAS put the same question, verbatim, on the test twice?
Shouldn't we be compensated for being subjects of research?
I'm right on the fence. I attended the classes and only moderately studied throughout, picking it up big time in the last few weeks. Based on my results of last exams without opening a book, I had modest expectations to pass this one. If I got ALL of my "maybe" answers wrong, then I got 72% of the 130 correct. That's just too close within the margin of error to say I passed. Anything more than a standard deviation in those thirty research questions will make or break me.
It's incredible how the hours AFTER the test are more stressful than those before!
That guy said
Oct 20, 2013
I don't think that this has anything to do witg DCAS. I think it's all NYPD test makers who think they're smarter than everyone else and can pull off whatever they want with no repercussions. You think the sergeants who let the dual question get by will catch a CD? No, but you'll still get one for not checking off "Was CPR performed by UMOS?" on an aided card.
seamus said
Oct 20, 2013
Nope, I know from a very good source that this whole idea came from DCAS
Wingnut said
Oct 20, 2013
Someone better get a hit for letting in two identical questions, especially because I got it (them) wrong! hahaha
But is one a research question? Are both? Who the flip knows?!?
What a farce.
seamus said
Oct 20, 2013
LOL, I remember that there was a double question, but I don't remember what numbers they were. does anyone remember?
Wingnut said
Oct 20, 2013
It was definitely #121. I forget what the other number was. In the 30s maybe?
MaverickCX said
Oct 20, 2013
The hypothesis was how many people can we piss off with one test
BX123 said
Oct 21, 2013
For 6 MONTHS, Ive took time away from my family to study and cut back on overtime and for what. TO BE USED AS A F***** LAB RAT FOR DCAS. Since I can remember, DCAS has stuck with the same format of giving 100 test questions, with 6 hours to answer them. WHY CHANGE SH** NOW!!!!! OK.You wanted to use us at lab rats, fine.. Then give us MORE TIME TO ANSWER NON IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT WILL NOT COUNT TOWARDS MY SCORE. The admission notice stated we would have additional questions, but no where did it mention anything about there being 30 questions and they would be THROUGHOUT the booklet!!!!!!!!!! This exam is challenging enough, now you allow us to focus on questions that will not count towards our score and take time away from the ones that do. I think this is BULLSH*** and UNFAIR. We cant allow the city to get away with this one. We must come together and fight this.Ive read comments about the changes are due to later test takers. Bull****. If DCAS is so worried about that, then come up with a different version of the exam for the later test takers.
-- Edited by BX123 on Monday 21st of October 2013 01:31:58 AM
brat4914 said
Oct 21, 2013
That guy wrote:
I don't think that this has anything to do witg DCAS. I think it's all NYPD test makers who think they're smarter than everyone else and can pull off whatever they want with no repercussions. You think the sergeants who let the dual question get by will catch a CD? No, but you'll still get one for not checking off "Was CPR performed by UMOS?" on an aided card.
trust me - it's DCAS - NYPD members have no control on HOW the exam is adminstered - there is a VERY good chance NYPD was unaware of the whole thing
Jdawg said
Oct 21, 2013
I suggest that, like mike Yanosik from the elite said, everyone should attend that protest session and see what you got. but also let them know how you felt about this test (the time frame given for an extra 30 questions) and focus on the duplicate question and any other test based questions that you guys can think of where you were on the fence with the answer. I have a few in my mind that should be thrown out as being too borderline with the answer choice they gave. If anyone can think of questions for us to formulate, PM me so we can go to Dcas with a list of unfair questions and hopefully get them thrown out. These promotional class teachers, from fast track to elite to rising star and the key, would have protested the questions they thought were too tricky or too misleading but since they were unable to take the test, the cannot be our voice. Mike Yanosik said everyone should try to attend, it's for our own benefit and the future of our careers
stiggityone said
Oct 21, 2013
More questions makes it harder for the cheaters (sabbath observers) to figure out half of the exam before they take the make up test. The simple solution is to just give the test on a weekday or Sunday evening
yougonow said
Oct 21, 2013
That makes sense. Of course nyc does not evolve around that.
carman728 said
Oct 21, 2013
I'm against it as much as anyone else cuz I studied my ass off for it and got screwed with the time. It did say on the test booklet that there are 30 research questions "throughout" the exam. The number was in bold and I noticed it right away. I couldn't believe they were giving 30 questions, which is about 2 hours worth (100 questions, 6 hours= about 2 hours for every 30 questions) and not giving additional time. I know many people did the in basket last but couldn't do it because they ran out of time. Every complaining better be with me at the protest session and tell them how I feel. This isn't right and can't let them do this for he future.
Nay said
Oct 21, 2013
i heard almost 8k or more of us took this exam, it is clear way of saying we are nothing but lab rat by DCAS. We can prove them wrong if we are in it together, we should show them how we can be united and set things right.
32forLife said
Oct 21, 2013
you cant protest the whole exam...that's nonsense...they sent out a email prior to exam advising of the changes...you should've read the packet....30 xtra questions is a lot but everyone faced the same time constraint...throwing out the test is unfair to the people who passed
Nay said
Oct 21, 2013
you suggesting that they should only take out 30 that they want to? instead why not make 70% is passing after everything counts. it would be fair for every one instead of benefiting their people alone ( whoever that is).
32forLife said
Oct 21, 2013
Nay wrote:
you suggesting that they should only take out 30 that they want to? instead why not make 70% is passing after everything counts. it would be fair for every one instead of benefiting their people alone ( whoever that is).
because that's not what it says on the packet...? the 30 they take out shouldn't matter if u passed you passed...if u have 100 right out of 130 doesn't matter what they take out
BX123 said
Oct 21, 2013
32FOR Life... its COPS like you that makes this job bad. Were suppose to be cops and stand up for what is right. DCAS and the City of New York robbed us!!! We should be filling out a 61 on on them. If there was nothing to hide and if everything was on the up and up, in that email you talk about it should have mentioned the 30 extra questions. All it said was additional questions. On the admission slip, we got nothing too! How after so many years of giving 6 hours for 100 questions, you wait until we sit down for the exam and tell us to answer 30 addtional questions with no extra time. No matter how u look at it, they did us wrong! DCAS has too much power regarding the lives and future of future cops who want to beome bosses. This scam is bigger then you and me. I knew something was up when they told the teachers of ELITE and the KEY and everyone else that they could not attend the exam. Its because of them that many bosses are bosses now. Questions that should not be on that exam are tossed out because of them. This exam was a scam and had many motives behind it.
yougonow said
Oct 21, 2013
Anyone remember what numbers were the IAB questions?
I know there was TWO. One was inspector general/doi.. After number 100+ was the mayor executive order question I know for sure.
32forLife said
Oct 21, 2013
BX123 wrote:
32FOR Life... its COPS like you that makes this job bad. Were suppose to be cops and stand up for what is right. DCAS and the City of New York robbed us!!! We should be filling out a 61 on on them. If there was nothing to hide and if everything was on the up and up, in that email you talk about it should have mentioned the 30 extra questions. All it said was additional questions. On the admission slip, we got nothing too! How after so many years of giving 6 hours for 100 questions, you wait until we sit down for the exam and tell us to answer 30 addtional questions with no extra time. No matter how u look at it, they did us wrong! DCAS has too much power regarding the lives and future of future cops who want to beome bosses. This scam is bigger then you and me. I knew something was up when they told the teachers of ELITE and the KEY and everyone else that they could not attend the exam. Its because of them that many bosses are bosses now. Questions that should not be on that exam are tossed out because of them. This exam was a scam and had many motives behind it.
so what your saying is if you passed this exam you would give it back and turn down your passing grade? because its wrong? right?
BX123 said
Oct 21, 2013
There is nothing wrong with fighting as 1 even if you passed this exam....... Listen I don't know how much time u got on the job, but DCAS f###ed and even the people who think they passed this exam knows it too. If we allow this to happen and do nothing, it will get worst on future exams.
crap said
Oct 21, 2013
Like I posted in the other thread, I think DCAS couldn't have another 1000+ list since the 2011 is just barely halfway through so they added an additional 30 questions to make it extra hard. I had 17 cops left in my room by the time the bell rang and many of them didn't finish and man were they pissed off.
32forLife said
Oct 21, 2013
BX123 wrote:
32FOR Life... its COPS like you that makes this job bad. Were suppose to be cops and stand up for what is right. DCAS and the City of New York robbed us!!! We should be filling out a 61 on on them. If there was nothing to hide and if everything was on the up and up, in that email you talk about it should have mentioned the 30 extra questions. All it said was additional questions. On the admission slip, we got nothing too! How after so many years of giving 6 hours for 100 questions, you wait until we sit down for the exam and tell us to answer 30 addtional questions with no extra time. No matter how u look at it, they did us wrong! DCAS has too much power regarding the lives and future of future cops who want to beome bosses. This scam is bigger then you and me. I knew something was up when they told the teachers of ELITE and the KEY and everyone else that they could not attend the exam. Its because of them that many bosses are bosses now. Questions that should not be on that exam are tossed out because of them. This exam was a scam and had many motives behind it. In fact you s
so what your saying is if you passed this exam you would give it back and turn down your passing grade? because its wrong? right?
does this mean you failing or passing?...it makes a big difference...if your passing and saying this...it makes your words a lot more powerful...only thing I suggest is administer another test and have time prorated into when you get promoted from the next test/list...
seamus said
Oct 22, 2013
Question. Lets say the double question was not part of the pre determined lab experiment question. Would someone who got it right get two points for that, and would someone who got it wrong get a -2 for that? Or would they throw one out?
Zmann said
Oct 22, 2013
I think they give everyone who had it wrong a point and whoever had it right is out of luck lol.
APPEAL THE 30 Randomly mixed in "Survey Questions" -- letter to DCAS COMMISSIONER - Takes Less than 5 minutes.... Pass this link on to everyone you know who took the exam and actually cares about passing
i just personally wrote to DCAS on that website in the message posted above by carman728 and I encourage everyone to voice your opinion since not all of you will attend the protest review session like myself:
To Whom it May Concern,
The 2013 NYPD sgt test#3539 was an unfair collaboration and abomination of a city promotional exam with 30 extra survey questions and the failure to allot extra time for those said questions. Our career is being tossed around like we are guinea pigs in a horrible lab experiment gone awry. Many of us studied for months, put our personal lives on hold, and paid in excess of a thousand dollars for promotional tutoring classes when we originally signed up for a 100 question test, which places a vast majority of us in a precarious situation of failing since many test takers did not even finish the entire exam unrighteously due in part to lack of time. As of now, there are too many variables factored in and the majority of the test takers expect an answer regarding these so-called survey questions. Will we be provided with their identity and purpose at the protest review and receive a breakdown of how they affect our test scores? We are entitled to an explanation of this unjust practice!
I demand an explanation as to why this exam was thirty-three percent longer with no extra time provided. I want to know exactly why thousands of cops were treated like lab rats on a day that shapes careers. I want to know EXACTLY what they were looking for, WHY they were looking for it, and WHY this exam in particular.
What was the purpose? If they were simply testing a new system or software, the extra questions did not have to be patrol guide questions. "What color is the sky? " would have had the same results.
Was it part of a bigger push to make the test more than 100 questions permanently? Was this just to see how many more questions they could squeeze into six hours? If that's the case, shame on them. Many people put their lives on hold to study for this exam. this research couldn't have been conducted on a Sanitation or even this job's entrance exam?
it certainly was not to research the effectiveness of their judgement type questions that plagued the lieutenant's exam. I didn't notice them.
Was the reason to add 30 more questions an attempt to stop us from putting together an accurate answer key before almighty DCAS published the results. Especially because this stunt was pulled along with DCAS telling us that the proposed answer key will NOT be put online and the only way to get the results is to attend the protest.
Was the purpose to see what people did when they realized DCAS put the same question, verbatim, on the test twice?
Shouldn't we be compensated for being subjects of research?
I'm right on the fence. I attended the classes and only moderately studied throughout, picking it up big time in the last few weeks. Based on my results of last exams without opening a book, I had modest expectations to pass this one. If I got ALL of my "maybe" answers wrong, then I got 72% of the 130 correct. That's just too close within the margin of error to say I passed. Anything more than a standard deviation in those thirty research questions will make or break me.
It's incredible how the hours AFTER the test are more stressful than those before!
Someone better get a hit for letting in two identical questions, especially because I got it (them) wrong! hahaha
But is one a research question? Are both? Who the flip knows?!?
What a farce.
LOL, I remember that there was a double question, but I don't remember what numbers they were. does anyone remember?
The hypothesis was how many people can we piss off with one test
For 6 MONTHS, Ive took time away from my family to study and cut back on overtime and for what. TO BE USED AS A F***** LAB RAT FOR DCAS. Since I can remember, DCAS has stuck with the same format of giving 100 test questions, with 6 hours to answer them. WHY CHANGE SH** NOW!!!!! OK.You wanted to use us at lab rats, fine.. Then give us MORE TIME TO ANSWER NON IMPORTANT QUESTIONS THAT WILL NOT COUNT TOWARDS MY SCORE. The admission notice stated we would have additional questions, but no where did it mention anything about there being 30 questions and they would be THROUGHOUT the booklet!!!!!!!!!! This exam is challenging enough, now you allow us to focus on questions that will not count towards our score and take time away from the ones that do. I think this is BULLSH*** and UNFAIR. We cant allow the city to get away with this one. We must come together and fight this. Ive read comments about the changes are due to later test takers. Bull****. If DCAS is so worried about that, then come up with a different version of the exam for the later test takers.
-- Edited by BX123 on Monday 21st of October 2013 01:31:58 AM
trust me - it's DCAS - NYPD members have no control on HOW the exam is adminstered - there is a VERY good chance NYPD was unaware of the whole thing
I'm against it as much as anyone else cuz I studied my ass off for it and got screwed with the time. It did say on the test booklet that there are 30 research questions "throughout" the exam. The number was in bold and I noticed it right away. I couldn't believe they were giving 30 questions, which is about 2 hours worth (100 questions, 6 hours= about 2 hours for every 30 questions) and not giving additional time. I know many people did the in basket last but couldn't do it because they ran out of time. Every complaining better be with me at the protest session and tell them how I feel. This isn't right and can't let them do this for he future.
you cant protest the whole exam...that's nonsense...they sent out a email prior to exam advising of the changes...you should've read the packet....30 xtra questions is a lot but everyone faced the same time constraint...throwing out the test is unfair to the people who passed
because that's not what it says on the packet...? the 30 they take out shouldn't matter if u passed you passed...if u have 100 right out of 130 doesn't matter what they take out
I know there was TWO. One was inspector general/doi.. After number 100+ was the mayor executive order question I know for sure.
so what your saying is if you passed this exam you would give it back and turn down your passing grade? because its wrong? right?
There is nothing wrong with fighting as 1 even if you passed this exam....... Listen I don't know how much time u got on the job, but DCAS f###ed and even the people who think they passed this exam knows it too. If we allow this to happen and do nothing, it will get worst on future exams.
so what your saying is if you passed this exam you would give it back and turn down your passing grade? because its wrong? right?
does this mean you failing or passing?...it makes a big difference...if your passing and saying this...it makes your words a lot more powerful...only thing I suggest is administer another test and have time prorated into when you get promoted from the next test/list...
I think they give everyone who had it wrong a point and whoever had it right is out of luck lol.
APPEAL THE 30 Randomly mixed in "Survey Questions" -- letter to DCAS COMMISSIONER - Takes Less than 5 minutes.... Pass this link on to everyone you know who took the exam and actually cares about passing
i just personally wrote to DCAS on that website in the message posted above by carman728 and I encourage everyone to voice your opinion since not all of you will attend the protest review session like myself:
To Whom it May Concern,
The 2013 NYPD sgt test#3539 was an unfair collaboration and abomination of a city promotional exam with 30 extra survey questions and the failure to allot extra time for those said questions. Our career is being tossed around like we are guinea pigs in a horrible lab experiment gone awry. Many of us studied for months, put our personal lives on hold, and paid in excess of a thousand dollars for promotional tutoring classes when we originally signed up for a 100 question test, which places a vast majority of us in a precarious situation of failing since many test takers did not even finish the entire exam unrighteously due in part to lack of time. As of now, there are too many variables factored in and the majority of the test takers expect an answer regarding these so-called survey questions. Will we be provided with their identity and purpose at the protest review and receive a breakdown of how they affect our test scores? We are entitled to an explanation of this unjust practice!