A. three questions where you are the operations coordinator/other actor where you are recommending LT/SGT/PO for positions. Not nearly enough background info about the eligibles to make any kind of intelligent decision.
B. E-day request: if you give the e-day you are violating section 203 which is compliance with orders IE - FINEST message at desk ordering no excusals; If you do not give the day you're in violation of the text that DCAS used to compile that question.
C. House party: does not give enough info regarding what day or time frame you have to notify, overtime was authorized as per CO memo, meaning any of the RDO bosses could potentially get the detail; as well as the Crime or Conditions boss
PATROL GUIDE
A. Juvenille ARS, HAZMAT, Uniform compliance, Accident on Bridge, Accident report in stationhouse, Strip Search, Aided in Nursing Home, Dept accident retraining and all hybrid procedure questions which we can find discrepancies elsewhere in PG
JUDGMENT
A. Any and all pertaining to subjective judgment...plenty of ways to skin a cat and in most questions at least 2 of 4 choices were reasonable and could be argued easily. Additionally we were never afforded an oppurtunity to read and consult the text in which these questions were based.
MATH GRAMMAR
A. I think these were fair game.
OkeeDokee said
Nov 1, 2011
Question 100- You're placed in charge of a detail to do overdue crap requested by Mayor's office. The supervisory answer was "assign people, supervise itt, and authorize overtime." According to PG, only PC, 1st DC, and COD can auth. admin. overtime.
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
In the patrol guide the disciplinary and retraining message in the additional data is addressed to the commanding officer. That question should be thrown out and I am quite sure it will be.
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
In regards to the guy walking in with the 53, the guy didn't even say what he wanted to do. How do we know he didn't already file a report already or if he wanted to add something to the report or he wanted a copy of the report. They just gave a scenario of him walking in the command and they stated he got injured and the vehicle fled the scene but they didn't say he wanted to file a report or anything. They just hit you with choices.
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 1, 2011
oneadditional wrote:
In the patrol guide the disciplinary and retraining message in the additional data is addressed to the commanding officer. That question should be thrown out and I am quite sure it will be.
Exactly. Yes it's in the p.g. But it's out of our purview for this exam
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
commanding officer isnt a rank...........LT can be a CO......scumbag question
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
SO BASICALLY YOU STUDIED COMMANDING OFFICER, EXECUTIVE OFFICER SECTION OF THE PATROL GUIDE JMAN. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING ? SHOULD WE HAVE READ CO XO IN SECTION 202 FOR THIS TEST AS WELL AS THE SGTS EXAM ?
NYG37 said
Nov 1, 2011
We really should all file a claim action lawsuit before its too late
OkeeDokee said
Nov 1, 2011
oneadditional wrote:
SO BASICALLY YOU STUDIED COMMANDING OFFICER, EXECUTIVE OFFICER SECTION OF THE PATROL GUIDE JMAN. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING ? SHOULD WE HAVE READ CO XO IN SECTION 202 FOR THIS TEST AS WELL AS THE SGTS EXAM ?
Additional data isn't particular to any rank.
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 1, 2011
OkeeDokee wrote:
oneadditional wrote:
SO BASICALLY YOU STUDIED COMMANDING OFFICER, EXECUTIVE OFFICER SECTION OF THE PATROL GUIDE JMAN. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING ? SHOULD WE HAVE READ CO XO IN SECTION 202 FOR THIS TEST AS WELL AS THE SGTS EXAM ?
Additional data isn't particular to any rank.
Yes it is when the additional data refers to executing a duty that the same procedure states is the duty of a captain
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
its in additional data dopey...everyone knows CO isnt a rank...Squad CO's are Sergeant's.....it has nothing to do with Capt, Inspector, Chief etc...scumbag question but CO isn't rank specific
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
CO is a designation.....like "member of Detective Bureau" could be a white shield PO to a three star chief
RICH-PD said
Nov 1, 2011
so the cops studying for their trimesters in the police academy should study the entire patrol guide because anyone can be a "commanding officer"?
SteveC said
Nov 1, 2011
Agree totally with selecting the Ops Coordinator. Where does it say you need a certain edcation requirement? No memos in the packet at all stating requirements. very poorly written
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
no fool, but when you're studying to become a rank where you can be a CO, then the scum at DCAS say its fair game.....PROTEST
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
JMAN YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS ! SO A POLICE OFFICER CAN BE A BORO COMMANDER THEN ?
RICH-PD said
Nov 1, 2011
how am i a fool i simply applied what you just said that a position is not rank specific and you just said a member of the DB could be a three star so smarten up before you point fingers
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
Now I know why you guys had an issue with reading comprehension.......simple, the test writers KNOW we don't study duties of a CO bc typically its a Capt and above. But, when their duties fall within additional data of a relevant procedure, and "CO" is not rank specific they ask questions like that. I don't agree but I am trying to help you understand the mindset, it wasn't a mistake. Additionally, if a member of "Detective Bureau" can visit a prisoner, are they really saying a Detective, or could it mean a PO assigned to DB, or a Sgt, or a LT.....its not rank specific and thats why they think its FAIR....PROTEST like I will be
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
I GUESS WE BETTER STUDY BORO COMMANDER, BORO ADJUDANT, EXECUTIVE OFFICER ETC . . SINCE AS PER JMAN ANYBODY CAN BE A COMMANDER.
unborn said
Nov 1, 2011
When the patrol guide means commanding officer they mean precinct, PSA, TD CO. Which, last I checked, is a Captain or better. I'm sure there is some Organizational Guide reference that could be pulled up if needed. You could be the "CO" of some b-s unit in the academy and be a sergeant, and not be responsible, either theoretically or realistically, for the duties of a precinct CO as outlined in 202.
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
Not a boro commander.....thats rank specific.....2 star or 1 star acting as their counterpart, and an XO can be a Sgt as well....if you work in a precinct walk upstairs and ask to speak to the CO of the Detective Squad.....you'll be shocked to see a Sgt or a Lt....ECT, and a variety of other units in PSB, TB, DB, OCCB all have LTs and Sgts acting as CO's.....open your eyeballs
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
the Fast Track covered this issue in detail when talking about being authorized out of uniform for court "sick, appearing on your own time, restricted, arraigning a holdover prisoner and AUTHORIZED BY YOU CO" they made sure to draw attention to that for the Lt test, bc they may try to slip a Lt into a CO position. I don't agree with it and it should be protested
Footpost 4 Life said
Nov 1, 2011
It was a sucker question, like most of the patrol guide questions they asked, to have us study an entire patrol guide and then pick obscure sections is nothing new on promotional exams, but it's usually 75-80 patrol guide questions with a few cheap questions for the hard studier, not 40-50, with 30 cheap questions...they did us dirty
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
WAS THAT BOOK LISTED ON THE NOTICE OF EXAMINATION OR THE REVISION NOTICE DCAS SENT OUT OR ON THE DCAS APPLICATION ?
big guy said
Nov 1, 2011
Anyone notice the mis-spelling in the map question? One of the choices said "Adams Street" and the map itself said "Adam Street". Also the one where the choice said "Don nt" instead of "Don't". These should automatically be thrown out right???
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
there were "streets" in the question and I believe "avenue" on map or some other major discrepancy. Promotional Exam ABORTION
PatrolGuideismyBible said
Nov 1, 2011
J Man wrote:
the Fast Track covered this issue in detail when talking about being authorized out of uniform for court "sick, appearing on your own time, restricted, arraigning a holdover prisoner and AUTHORIZED BY YOU CO" they made sure to draw attention to that for the Lt test, bc they may try to slip a Lt into a CO position. I don't agree with it and it should be protested
Certain CO duties you should be familar with like CD penalties are actually under CO duties.
But for lets say an accident report whether to give a CD or retraining? When will a Lt ever be the CO or XO of a pct that adjudicates possible wrongdoing in dept vehicle accidents? NEVER!!! Another BS question...
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
Thats my whole point patrolguideismybible and thats why I am going to protest the question....Protest it big guy, Protest every error you see
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
Beyond BS, completely agree Bible.....just trying to help everyone understand the writers mindset on how to screw us, how we can know 99% and still get fcked on something obscure....do we really need to know what the Incident Commanders duties are at the scene of a plane crash? Will a LT be appointing command and general staff positions? never. but we study CIMS bc the titles arent rank specific. Planning section chief, gimme a break
big guy said
Nov 1, 2011
Even if there are many questions thrown out- if you are on the borderline or below it, all that will happen will be is you will just make the list only to die on the list anyway at some point in the future. Instead of missing a small list of like 500 people you will go on the bottom of a 1000 person list that will never be extended that far! So is there really anything much to gain or am i just thinking too much with the glass half empty cuz im so dejected over this....
J Man said
Nov 1, 2011
We should demand the test be thrown out, not fight over questions. Overall it wasn't fair, as a whole and they did not allow ample time to complete it.
CRS said
Nov 1, 2011
I agree with J Man! Did anyone call the Union?
LT FAILURE said
Nov 1, 2011
Big guy you have a valid point--
papote170 said
Nov 1, 2011
Can anyone plz advice on how the whole process of protesting for the exam works? .. does Dcas has a specific date for this protest to take place? How does the whole process works?
-- Edited by papote170 on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 06:56:46 AM
HabidasheryAuto said
Nov 1, 2011
The union wont care, what are they gonna sue so they can lose more due paying members to the LBA?
PatrolGuideismyBible said
Nov 1, 2011
J Man wrote:
Beyond BS, completely agree Bible.....just trying to help everyone understand the writers mindset on how to screw us, how we can know 99% and still get fcked on something obscure....do we really need to know what the Incident Commanders duties are at the scene of a plane crash? Will a LT be appointing command and general staff positions? never. but we study CIMS bc the titles arent rank specific. Planning section chief, gimme a break
I agree, but I did hit CIMS hard since I was expecting 5-6 questions, what we got was zero? Also they could get creative with 220 CIMS and shrink the detail when the incident is under control and perhaps leave a Lt in charge, I was thinking either the very beginning or very end would be somewhat fair to leave a Lt in charge.
We did get two on 213 mobilizations, 1 was an alternate mobilization point which was the 122 pct for a SI resident that worked in the 67 I think? One of the more fair and straightforward straight PG questions.
The other 213 question can be challenged in the in basket involving a hazmat job and picking the proper moblization point. I think the book says "upwind and on highground" or something like that when considering wind. Also there was a TR entry of a college event that would have knocked out potentially two good choices, but here is where is was completely unfair, you had no TIME mentioned in the fact pattern, but the colllege event was recorded that day in TR late in the 2nd platoon? So if they don't tell you what time the level 1 mobilization is how can you use information that might not have happened yet?
These test writers were completely inept and I think confused themselves...
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 1, 2011
PatrolGuideismyBible wrote:
J Man wrote:
Beyond BS, completely agree Bible.....just trying to help everyone understand the writers mindset on how to screw us, how we can know 99% and still get fcked on something obscure....do we really need to know what the Incident Commanders duties are at the scene of a plane crash? Will a LT be appointing command and general staff positions? never. but we study CIMS bc the titles arent rank specific. Planning section chief, gimme a break
I agree, but I did hit CIMS hard since I was expecting 5-6 questions, what we got was zero? Also they could get creative with 220 CIMS and shrink the detail when the incident is under control and perhaps leave a Lt in charge, I was thinking either the very beginning or very end would be somewhat fair to leave a Lt in charge.
We did get two on 213 mobilizations, 1 was an alternate mobilization point which was the 122 pct for a SI resident that worked in the 67 I think? One of the more fair and straightforward straight PG questions.
The other 213 question can be challenged in the in basket involving a hazmat job and picking the proper moblization point. I think the book says "upwind and on highground" or something like that when considering wind. Also there was a TR entry of a college event that would have knocked out potentially two good choices, but here is where is was completely unfair, you had no TIME mentioned in the fact pattern, but the colllege event was recorded that day in TR late in the 2nd platoon? So if they don't tell you what time the level 1 mobilization is how can you use information that might not have happened yet?
These test writers were completely inept and I think confused themselves...
I agree. I had the mobilization point by the school (closest to the incident) then I remembered the safe corridor and dissmissal times so i moved it further away which also seemed to be a suitable spot. I changed that answer 3 or 4 times and still now I don't remember which on i settled with. Each could be protested
PatrolGuideismyBible said
Nov 1, 2011
I wasn't even thinking Safe Corridor since it was a college campus in the map that had a parking lot. I thought it would be the best answer, but I glanced at the TR and around 1400 hours the college was having some big event that would have had street closures. The question did not say what time the hazmat job was though. If it was 0800 hours, the college parking lot might still be a good choice, but obviously if it was 1430 it would not. The question was too vague and didn't give you enough information to properly answer it.
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 1, 2011
There was an event at the college but I think one of the mobilization points was near "high school" which along with PS 134 (or whatever it was) had the memo about the dismissal times from the c.o. Which point did you settle on, the one furthest to the left?
oneadditional said
Nov 1, 2011
AWWWW SH#T NOT ANOTHER QUESTION WITH A STUPID LOOP WHOLE WHERE IN TRYING TO CONFUSE US THEY CONFUSED THEMSELVES
PatrolGuideismyBible said
Nov 1, 2011
RISING IDIOT wrote:
There was an event at the college but I think one of the mobilization points was near "high school" which along with PS 134 (or whatever it was) had the memo about the dismissal times from the c.o. Which point did you settle on, the one furthest to the left?
Were there two choices to the left? I picked the closer one to the incident. Once again, I don't think they ever tell you the time of day or if school is even open? There were roll calls from the 2nd and 3rd platoon, if this happened at 1900 hours, would any of that matter?
They didn't give you a time in the fact pattern, impossible to eliminate the college with the special event or the school with dismissal times. Fight that one, BS question.
I am not even sure if they gave you a list of cops to mobilize giving away which tour it was?Or did they give you a Sgt's name from the 2nd or 3rd platoon, might have, I dunno? I know they had you picking cops for an OT detail in another question though.
-- Edited by PatrolGuideismyBible on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 10:12:55 AM
-- Edited by PatrolGuideismyBible on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 10:16:07 AM
oneadditional said
Nov 22, 2011
I will certainly look for the AdamS street on the inbasket map and them placing ADAM street in the answer choices. That should be a throw out especially if AdamS street was the answer and people got it wrong.
HB said
Nov 22, 2011
CRS wrote:
I agree with J Man! Did anyone call the Union?
The union? Dont make me laugh
HB said
Nov 22, 2011
J Man wrote:
We should demand the test be thrown out, not fight over questions. Overall it wasn't fair, as a whole and they did not allow ample time to complete it.
Didnt you pass? Why would anybody encourage people to get a test thrown out that they passed?
J Man said
Nov 22, 2011
well, i looked into it, test cannot just be thrown out all together so disregard........the goal now - pass or fail - should at least have the unfair or poorly written questions tossed, the test wasnt fair to any of us. i got a 75, should of been a 95
nycop80 said
Nov 22, 2011
question 100
mayors order, where the answer was A, making the LT authorize admin OT.
205-17
OVERTIME: a. NON-ORDERED - Extension of scheduled tour of duty by 15 minutes or more to prevent interruption of services being performed, e.g., processing an arrest, aided case, court appearance, etc. Non-ordered overtime is not authorized for administrative duties at any level. b. ORDERED - Extra duty required for on-going or future operational situations, demonstrations, parades, etc., or overtime of an administrative nature for extra duty required of an on-going or future operational situation. (May only be authorized by Police Commissioner, First Deputy Commissioner or Chief of Department). c. EMERGENCY ORDERED - Extra duty performed in an emergency when work schedules are suspended by Department order, due to largescale disorders or disasters. (May only be authorized by Police Commissioner, First Deputy Commissioner or Chief of Department).
It's right there in plain black and white :
overtime of an administrative nature for extra duty required of an on-going or future operational situation. (May only be authorized by Police Commissioner, First Deputy Commissioner or Chief of Department).
This will be a double answer. As far as i know a LT is not one of the 3 wise men. I know you are going to say but in real life who does that ? This is not real life, it is an exam based on information that we have studied or been supplied with. Not accepting C as an answer and just accepting A violates this procedure.
HB said
Nov 22, 2011
J Man wrote:
well, i looked into it, test cannot just be thrown out all together so disregard........the goal now - pass or fail - should at least have the unfair or poorly written questions tossed, the test wasnt fair to any of us. i got a 75, should of been a 95
Your 75 is like a 95 on this f'd up test. Dont sweat it.
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 22, 2011
oneadditional wrote:
In the patrol guide the disciplinary and retraining message in the additional data is addressed to the commanding officer. That question should be thrown out and I am quite sure it will be.
I agree
NextLtTest said
Nov 22, 2011
RISING IDIOT wrote:
oneadditional wrote:
In the patrol guide the disciplinary and retraining message in the additional data is addressed to the commanding officer. That question should be thrown out and I am quite sure it will be.
I agree
Aren't we supposed to know all the additional data sections? Not defending DCAS, just wondering.
RISING IDIOT said
Nov 22, 2011
NextLtTest wrote:
RISING IDIOT wrote:
oneadditional wrote:
In the patrol guide the disciplinary and retraining message in the additional data is addressed to the commanding officer. That question should be thrown out and I am quite sure it will be.
I agree
Aren't we supposed to know all the additional data sections? Not defending DCAS, just wondering.
Not when said additional data refers to executing a duty that the same procedure states is the duty of a captain
IN BASKET
A. three questions where you are the operations coordinator/other actor where you are recommending LT/SGT/PO for positions. Not nearly enough background info about the eligibles to make any kind of intelligent decision.
B. E-day request: if you give the e-day you are violating section 203 which is compliance with orders IE - FINEST message at desk ordering no excusals; If you do not give the day you're in violation of the text that DCAS used to compile that question.
C. House party: does not give enough info regarding what day or time frame you have to notify, overtime was authorized as per CO memo, meaning any of the RDO bosses could potentially get the detail; as well as the Crime or Conditions boss
PATROL GUIDE
A. Juvenille ARS, HAZMAT, Uniform compliance, Accident on Bridge, Accident report in stationhouse, Strip Search, Aided in Nursing Home, Dept accident retraining and all hybrid procedure questions which we can find discrepancies elsewhere in PG
JUDGMENT
A. Any and all pertaining to subjective judgment...plenty of ways to skin a cat and in most questions at least 2 of 4 choices were reasonable and could be argued easily. Additionally we were never afforded an oppurtunity to read and consult the text in which these questions were based.
MATH GRAMMAR
A. I think these were fair game.
Question 100- You're placed in charge of a detail to do overdue crap requested by Mayor's office. The supervisory answer was "assign people, supervise itt, and authorize overtime." According to PG, only PC, 1st DC, and COD can auth. admin. overtime.
Additional data isn't particular to any rank.
its in additional data dopey...everyone knows CO isnt a rank...Squad CO's are Sergeant's.....it has nothing to do with Capt, Inspector, Chief etc...scumbag question but CO isn't rank specific
no fool, but when you're studying to become a rank where you can be a CO, then the scum at DCAS say its fair game.....PROTEST
Anyone notice the mis-spelling in the map question? One of the choices said "Adams Street" and the map itself said "Adam Street". Also the one where the choice said "Don nt" instead of "Don't". These should automatically be thrown out right???
Certain CO duties you should be familar with like CD penalties are actually under CO duties.
But for lets say an accident report whether to give a CD or retraining? When will a Lt ever be the CO or XO of a pct that adjudicates possible wrongdoing in dept vehicle accidents? NEVER!!! Another BS question...
Even if there are many questions thrown out- if you are on the borderline or below it, all that will happen will be is you will just make the list only to die on the list anyway at some point in the future. Instead of missing a small list of like 500 people you will go on the bottom of a 1000 person list that will never be extended that far! So is there really anything much to gain or am i just thinking too much with the glass half empty cuz im so dejected over this....
I agree with J Man! Did anyone call the Union?
Can anyone plz advice on how the whole process of protesting for the exam works? .. does Dcas has a specific date for this protest to take place? How does the whole process works?
-- Edited by papote170 on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 06:56:46 AM
The union wont care, what are they gonna sue so they can lose more due paying members to the LBA?
I agree, but I did hit CIMS hard since I was expecting 5-6 questions, what we got was zero? Also they could get creative with 220 CIMS and shrink the detail when the incident is under control and perhaps leave a Lt in charge, I was thinking either the very beginning or very end would be somewhat fair to leave a Lt in charge.
We did get two on 213 mobilizations, 1 was an alternate mobilization point which was the 122 pct for a SI resident that worked in the 67 I think? One of the more fair and straightforward straight PG questions.
The other 213 question can be challenged in the in basket involving a hazmat job and picking the proper moblization point. I think the book says "upwind and on highground" or something like that when considering wind. Also there was a TR entry of a college event that would have knocked out potentially two good choices, but here is where is was completely unfair, you had no TIME mentioned in the fact pattern, but the colllege event was recorded that day in TR late in the 2nd platoon? So if they don't tell you what time the level 1 mobilization is how can you use information that might not have happened yet?
These test writers were completely inept and I think confused themselves...
I agree. I had the mobilization point by the school (closest to the incident) then I remembered the safe corridor and dissmissal times so i moved it further away which also seemed to be a suitable spot. I changed that answer 3 or 4 times and still now I don't remember which on i settled with. Each could be protested
Were there two choices to the left? I picked the closer one to the incident. Once again, I don't think they ever tell you the time of day or if school is even open? There were roll calls from the 2nd and 3rd platoon, if this happened at 1900 hours, would any of that matter?
They didn't give you a time in the fact pattern, impossible to eliminate the college with the special event or the school with dismissal times. Fight that one, BS question.
I am not even sure if they gave you a list of cops to mobilize giving away which tour it was?Or did they give you a Sgt's name from the 2nd or 3rd platoon, might have, I dunno? I know they had you picking cops for an OT detail in another question though.
-- Edited by PatrolGuideismyBible on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 10:12:55 AM
-- Edited by PatrolGuideismyBible on Tuesday 1st of November 2011 10:16:07 AM
I will certainly look for the AdamS street on the inbasket map and them placing ADAM street in the answer choices. That should be a throw out especially if AdamS street was the answer and people got it wrong.
mayors order, where the answer was A, making the LT authorize admin OT.
205-17
OVERTIME:
a. NON-ORDERED - Extension of scheduled tour of duty by 15 minutes or
more to prevent interruption of services being performed, e.g., processing
an arrest, aided case, court appearance, etc. Non-ordered overtime is not
authorized for administrative duties at any level.
b. ORDERED - Extra duty required for on-going or future operational
situations, demonstrations, parades, etc., or overtime of an administrative
nature for extra duty required of an on-going or future operational
situation. (May only be authorized by Police Commissioner, First Deputy
Commissioner or Chief of Department).
c. EMERGENCY ORDERED - Extra duty performed in an emergency
when work schedules are suspended by Department order, due to largescale
disorders or disasters. (May only be authorized by Police
Commissioner, First Deputy Commissioner or Chief of Department).
It's right there in plain black and white :
overtime of an administrative
nature for extra duty required of an on-going or future operational
situation. (May only be authorized by Police Commissioner, First Deputy
Commissioner or Chief of Department).
This will be a double answer. As far as i know a LT is not one of the 3 wise men. I know you are going to say but in real life who does that ? This is not real life, it is an exam based on information that we have studied or been supplied with. Not accepting C as an answer and just accepting A violates this procedure.
I agree
Aren't we supposed to know all the additional data sections?
Not defending DCAS, just wondering.
Not when said additional data refers to executing a duty that the same procedure states is the duty of a captain