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Thebirds · Senior Member

RE: Executive Meeting w/ DCAS on 3/22/18

kaysersoze69 · Veteran Member

Ill be ignoring the trolls but like I said be prepare to defend your post without remaining anonymous if you post racist comments. Ill leave it at that and say no more.

Thebirds · Senior Member

No one is scared of your internet threats, tough guy.

Leslie · Guru

No one is posting racist comments. They are posting terminologies that have been used by DCAS in hiring this third party company to describe what their company objectives should be. I have not read one inappropriate post. An open dialogue should be kept going into this matter and intimidations or threats of an OEEO should not be made to shut the dialogue down!

-- Edited by Leslie on Friday 23rd of March 2018 06:47:16 PM

-- Edited by Leslie on Friday 23rd of March 2018 06:50:34 PM

FranknBeans · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
It's affirmative action.
Come find me bro.

The number 1 recipient from affirmative action has been... white women.

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Missing the Bx wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
Well said. I studied my ass off for this test and for the 2015 test. I know a lot of people that did of all races so lets not try to take that away from anyone that put the effort in.

That was well said? I dont even know what that last sentence is supposed to mean!!!

Samiam32 · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
Samiam32 wrote:
I would have suggested not even ACKNOWLEDGING that post
What can I say? I can't resist provoking stupidity.

I understand. It definitely was click bait

que1999 · Senior Member

The job is on the level everyone. Just relax.

crappants · Senior Member

Lock CROOKED DCAS UP. Scammers

20yrSentence · Senior Member

Well this escalated quickly!!!

TooSucio4u · Senior Member

Here we go again helping the white people make rank. The fix is in! LoL

PS: f@ck your conspiracy theory.

Thebirds · Senior Member

FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
It's affirmative action.
Come find me bro.
The number 1 recipient from affirmative action has been... white women.

And? The point is it shouldn't exist. I don't care who benefits from it. Best person for the job, period.

Leslie · Guru

Not a conspiracy theory when DCAS has hired an outside companyand posted their require requisite for the company to carry out and to bid on. Also the Sgts exam initally had 1600-1700 people passing after throwouts how else did another 1,000 people make it?!? Definitely took place with the Sgts exam just a matter of whether they carry out the same on our list

Leslie · Guru

I dont care about race. If you got a question right you should get one whole point and if you got it wrong you should get one whole point deducted period!

Missing the Bx · Veteran Member

Leslie wrote:
I dont care about race. If you got a question right you should get one whole point and if you got it wrong you should get one whole point deducted period!

Exactly Leslie!!!!

FranknBeans · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
It's affirmative action.
Come find me bro.
The number 1 recipient from affirmative action has been... white women.

And? The point is it shouldn't exist. I don't care who benefits from it. Best person for the job, period.

And we work in civil service... it's never best person for the job.

RS2323 · Senior Member

So Leslie, I can get 80 right (20 wrong) and wind up with a 60 according to you .

Leslie wrote:
I dont care about race. If you got a question right you should get one whole point and if you got it wrong you should get one whole point deducted period!

Thebirds · Senior Member

FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
It's affirmative action.
Come find me bro.
The number 1 recipient from affirmative action has been... white women.

And? The point is it shouldn't exist. I don't care who benefits from it. Best person for the job, period.
And we work in civil service... it's never best person for the job.

Making irrelevant points seems to be your MO.

ChuckUFarley · Newbie

I have no stake in this. 3 tests are affected. Unknown what job is going to do about since job just found out.

FranknBeans · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
kaysersoze69 wrote:
Let the racism begin, god forbid minorities on this job past a fair test that can never happen all of a sudden the conspiracy theories begin. 63ASAP youre everything thats wrong with police work spreading rumors with enough truths sprinkled into them as to make them believabl. Youre a race baiter Al Sharpton in reverse shame on you and those like you and everyone else thats going to start postin that they didnt past or got a lower score because of some secret formula to promote minorities. Anyone who writes a racist post be prepare to defend it in person because I will make it my mission to put you.
It's affirmative action.
Come find me bro.
The number 1 recipient from affirmative action has been... white women.

And? The point is it shouldn't exist. I don't care who benefits from it. Best person for the job, period.
And we work in civil service... it's never best person for the job.
Making irrelevant points seems to be your MO.

No i'm only responding to points that YOU bring up in an open forum.

You mentioned affirmative action and best person for the job, which neither applies on a civil service exam.

Thebirds · Senior Member

How daft can you be? Weighting question values based on the number of minorities who answer them correctly is affirmative action. And yes, clearly a civil service exam isn't an accurate measure of someone's ability to be a boss on this job - I'm sure we ALL know that - but it is the measure the job promotes by. That said, my response to your meaningless statistic was a general one in regard to the concept of affirmative action.

FranknBeans · Senior Member

As for the original post, DCAS is protecting itself. This RFP is a retainer much like having a lawyer on retainer. DCAS in the event there is a lawsuit will use this company to show that their tests abided by civil service laws.

The lawsuit from the 2015 LT exam and at least 2 FD promotional exams exposed DCAS. They were not ready for legitimate lawsuits like the 2015 FD exam and in the past the 2007 FD entrance exam. If anyone took the 2007 FD exam, one of the reasons a lawsuit was filed was that FDNY held classes for their entrance exam, which was NOTHING like the exam.

Notice how the NYPD doesn't have classes or a study guide like they used to do. That was a loophole for DCAS and they closed it. Same for taking your answer key with you, hence why it was ended.

This RFP is just a preemptive strike by DCAS for lawsuits. DCAS can fall back on this company to say, our tests abide by current civil service law because we have these guys check it out for us.

FranknBeans · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
How daft can you be? Weighting question values based on the number of minorities who answer them correctly is affirmative action. And yes, clearly a civil service exam isn't an accurate measure of someone's ability to be a boss on this job - I'm sure we ALL know that - but it is the measure the job promotes by. That said, my response to your meaningless statistic was a general one in regard to the concept of affirmative action.

Affirmative Action has to do with a goal of an amount of candidates who wouldn't normally get the job ACTUALLY GETTING THE JOB.

The sections mentioning RACE and stuff in the RFP is something DCAS would've done if they didn't have a contractor, that language has to be in it thanks to the 2002 and 2007 FDNY entrance exam.

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:39:25 PM

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:43:09 PM

Thebirds · Senior Member

FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
How daft can you be? Weighting question values based on the number of minorities who answer them correctly is affirmative action. And yes, clearly a civil service exam isn't an accurate measure of someone's ability to be a boss on this job - I'm sure we ALL know that - but it is the measure the job promotes by. That said, my response to your meaningless statistic was a general one in regard to the concept of affirmative action.

Affirmative Action has to do with a goal of an amount of candidates who wouldn't normally get the job ACTUALLY GETTING THE JOB.

The sections mentioning RACE and stuff in the RFP is something DCAS would've done if they didn't have a contractor, that language has to be in it thanks to the 2002 and 2007 FDNY entrance exam.

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:39:25 PM

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:43:09 PM

You are seriously pedantic. Affirmative action simply means giving preference to minority groups in the selection process. This applies to both hiring and promotion.

soccerpsyco32 · Senior Member

Leslie wrote:
This should be 100% illegal. Sadly its prob defended by the law

-- Edited by Leslie on Friday 23rd of March 2018 05:09:04 PM

It may not seem fair but it is absolutely legal. Affirmative action has long and well documented legal standing, to include at the Supreme Court level. If true, this method of scoring was probably done to shield AGAINST any potential lawsuits!

FranknBeans · Senior Member

Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
How daft can you be? Weighting question values based on the number of minorities who answer them correctly is affirmative action. And yes, clearly a civil service exam isn't an accurate measure of someone's ability to be a boss on this job - I'm sure we ALL know that - but it is the measure the job promotes by. That said, my response to your meaningless statistic was a general one in regard to the concept of affirmative action.

Affirmative Action has to do with a goal of an amount of candidates who wouldn't normally get the job ACTUALLY GETTING THE JOB.

The sections mentioning RACE and stuff in the RFP is something DCAS would've done if they didn't have a contractor, that language has to be in it thanks to the 2002 and 2007 FDNY entrance exam.

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:39:25 PM

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:43:09 PM
You are seriously pedantic. Affirmative action simply means giving preference to minority groups in the selection process. This applies to both hiring and promotion.

You're literally clueless. Affirmative action ON A CIVIL SERVICE EXAM would be if a minority AND a "non-minority" got the question WRONG, but the minority got a point for it ANYWAY. That would in fact change the goal of the exam.

Thebirds · Senior Member

FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
FranknBeans wrote:
Thebirds wrote:
How daft can you be? Weighting question values based on the number of minorities who answer them correctly is affirmative action. And yes, clearly a civil service exam isn't an accurate measure of someone's ability to be a boss on this job - I'm sure we ALL know that - but it is the measure the job promotes by. That said, my response to your meaningless statistic was a general one in regard to the concept of affirmative action.

Affirmative Action has to do with a goal of an amount of candidates who wouldn't normally get the job ACTUALLY GETTING THE JOB.

The sections mentioning RACE and stuff in the RFP is something DCAS would've done if they didn't have a contractor, that language has to be in it thanks to the 2002 and 2007 FDNY entrance exam.

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:39:25 PM

-- Edited by FranknBeans on Friday 23rd of March 2018 11:43:09 PM
You are seriously pedantic. Affirmative action simply means giving preference to minority groups in the selection process. This applies to both hiring and promotion.
You're literally clueless. Affirmative action ON A CIVIL SERVICE EXAM would be if a minority AND a "non-minority" got the question WRONG, but the minority got a point for it ANYWAY. That would in fact change the goal of the exam.

You're wrong. It simply means giving preference to a minority group or groups. That preference can manifest in myriad ways. You seem to see things as very black or white, which is pretty funny given the topic.

Caralho · Senior Member

You guys are ducking losers !!!!!!!!!!

Leslie · Guru

I spoke to people and I feel a lot better about the exam. I think we have gotten things wrong and there is no manipulation of the point value. However I believe more people will be on the list then expecated and the list will definitely go on 4 yrs. big lists may be the new thing going forward on the department. I think we should all take a step back and relax. Sorry I am at fault as well for jumping into panic mode. Enjoy your weekend people, I dont forsee any hold ups or list freezes

RS2323 · Senior Member

If there is no manipulation of point value why would we see bigger lists than normal?

Leslie wrote:

I spoke to people and I feel a lot better about the exam. I think we have gotten things wrong and there is no manipulation of the point value. However I believe more people will be on the list then expecated and the list will definitely go on 4 yrs. big lists may be the new thing going forward on the department. I think we should all take a step back and relax. Sorry I am at fault as well for jumping into panic mode. Enjoy your weekend people, I dont forsee any hold ups or list freezes

Leslie · Guru

Throwouts of certain questions and curved. DCAS is going out of its way to stop lawsuits and get this outside agency to arbitrate it. I a lot more relaxed about it and dont believe its going to get held up. Also I know believe the meeting was so that higher ups on our job could fully be explained whats going on and the situation by this third party and dcas as they may have misunderstood as well. Ppl enjoy your weekend!

-- Edited by Leslie on Saturday 24th of March 2018 01:19:19 AM

redcons2 · Senior Member

TL;DR?

Theforceisstrongwiththisone · Guru

So it looks like dcas botched another nypd promotional exam with their "expert's" shady dispairity impact formula. 20 and out for me...im done..

Leslie · Guru

Theforceisstrongwiththisone wrote:
So it looks like dcas botched another nypd promotional exam with their "expert's" shady dispairity impact formula. 20 and out for me...im done..

20 and out bc the force is weak with this one..

81mm · Veteran Member

The original list of passers was not diverse enough for city hall. Yes city hall. Why are they concerned ? The Department is the most visible entity of city government. The experts are paid to stretch where they can, to make it diverse enough for consumption and satisfaction. Its nobodys fault, its what the city demands .

81mm · Veteran Member

Its happening with the citys specialized high schools. Look it up
Its happening with the special operations community of our armed forces. Look it up.

Shotsfired · Guru

Absolutely disgraceful.

eze · Co-Founder/Owner Rising Star

I was told that the test wasn't curved, it was scaled.
The purpose of scaled scores is to report scores for all examinees on a consistent scale. Suppose that a test has two forms, and one is more difficult than the other, the tests are scaled to adjust for this. This is what they do on the LSAT or SAT.

Scores have to be scaled to something, here, I was told that it was to the main exam. So, if the average score on the main exam was a 65 and the average score on the make-up was a 68, the make-up was then "easier" than the regular exam. The scores on the makeup are then adjusted to that it more closely mirrors the main exam.

-- Edited by eze on Saturday 24th of March 2018 02:38:06 AM

81mm · Veteran Member

So each answer is not worth 1 point ?

81mm · Veteran Member

It does not state on the NOE that each correct answer is worth 1 point. Does anyone recall if the exam packet explained to us that each question was worth 1 point?

Leslie · Guru

I doubt anything ne fully read that

eze · Co-Founder/Owner Rising Star

81mm wrote:
So each answer is not worth 1 point ?

Depending on the exam some questions are thrown out and others are graded as all answer choices being correct. If a question is thrown out, say 3, then of the 97 remaining questions each one will be worth 1.03.

I'll be making calls on this matter tomorrow and will keep you all updated on new developments/info

Leslie · Guru

eze wrote:
81mm wrote:
So each answer is not worth 1 point ?
Depending on the exam some questions are thrown out and others are graded as all answer choices being correct. If a question is thrown out, say 3, then of the 97 remaining questions each one will be worth 1.03.
I'll be making calls on this matter tomorrow and will keep you all updated on new developments/info

Thank you EZE. The info is much appreciated in this matter

81mm · Veteran Member

Thanks for the explanation

MBREEZE · Senior Member

Affirmative action, too many minorities got a question wrong so it got thrown out... the craziness ppl spit out. Based on this theory if 4000 cops of a minority group lets say Blacks, that sat for the exam got question 30 wrong then that question got thrown out or graded differently? So then that would mean that if 6000 white ppl got question 45 wrong then that question would also get thrown out or graded differently?? Oh wait no that wouldn't matter because those 6000 aren't minorities so they just have to suck it up and take the loss. You see how stupid that sounds. Stop the nonsense on here. We all work with cops of ALL races who can't walk and chew gum but ppl talk like minorities cant pass exams and they need some sort of help to get them over the hump. Most ppl coming on the job now have bachelor degrees and higher and they come from all different backgrounds. A lot of you are closet racist lol. Be safe out there guys. The goal is to sign out and go home not tear each other down. #makeitto20

81mm · Veteran Member

I think I might be speaking for many here. At least I think so, but what the hell are you trying to say ?

MBREEZE · Senior Member

You probably are speaking for yourself but the reality is that a lot of prior post are insinuating that the test are beibg graded differently so that minorities can pass and diversify the ranks. This totally diminishes the fact that minorities are studying just like everyone else. Its also absurd to believe that if a certain percentage of one group gets a question wrong that it will then be weighed different or scored different in their favor. If you use that theory then it has to be applied both ways, meaning that if a percentage of white cops get a particular question wrong it also will be weighted or scored differently. It sounds stupid to you because it's actually a stupid theory. You passed because you studied enough to pass. DCAS isn't helping you, and there's no such thing as a lucky Saturday (or Wednesday now). Cut the ****, wait for the list and go have sex or something lol. Be safe bro.

-- Edited by MBREEZE on Saturday 24th of March 2018 05:34:40 AM

81mm · Veteran Member

Right, a lot of us are closet racists, that must be it.

Thebirds · Senior Member

Breeze, how many times did you vote for Hillary?

-- Edited by Thebirds on Saturday 24th of March 2018 12:10:27 PM

63ASAP · Guru

If only DCAS just told candidates how they grade an exam, it would put this all to rest. Only thing thats confirmed is the sergeant exam was graded differently than usual, and they have failed to explain the range in scores. There had to be some method beyond just lowering the passing score, and this companys involved needs to be explained. Myself and a few others merely provided a possible explanation based on personal knowledge and public records. Its not meaningless information...something changed in this process. Hopefully EZE can shed some more light.

Theres a real reason people dont post information here. Theres a constant inability to talk like adults about facts, opinions, etc. without it developing into a p*issing match. Some of the things mentioned yesterday were corroborated by a few people here and even then, others read what they wanted to read, adding their own twist on it like a bad game of telephone. Instead of talking about the reasons behind the odd scoring or alternatives to some of the possible explanations, it just became an arguement. Its really sad that the most nonsense came from those who are often the first to say, Anyone got any info?!.

-- Edited by 63ASAP on Saturday 24th of March 2018 12:44:53 PM