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Protest Discussion


Sgtnogood wrote:

How are you protesting the missing if it's the paperwork required question that was groundball special category all 3 forms.


 You know what you are absolutely right but I did cause I was so mad about it I dropped that one. I just said **** it let me protest it cause you know why... they worded this so detailed how the girl left school at10am in good physical and mental health meaning she didn't have an excuse to leave school she was cutting; meaning she's a truant who requires a youth referral and I quickly just picked the answer that had the youth referral. Damn it and it was corrrect too but the question locked us in missings not missings and truants. So they did that on purpose they were so detailed im writing this question with the whole fact her cutting school to get people so damn twisted and I fell for it. I hate them. I honestly think there's only two throw outs at minimum one that's it. The Lt exam they had zero throw outs before the lawsuit then they had throw outs because in the lawsuit one of the arguments was that the NOE didn't have the crime complaint reference guide. They were very careful this time with our test and very twisted. I hate them.



-- Edited by bookworm on Friday 21st of April 2017 10:06:37 AM

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Missing paper work was ground ball. Word to word from patrol guide.

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Yeah I dropped that one...
I'm holding on to the scaffold and diplomat question

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Scaffolding one sounds right to protest. It's says go through OEM. I got it right so doesn't affect me.

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Which dcas building did you go to? I have some I want to protest also and I don't remember the question numbers. I'll do the same and take a trip over there 



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2 Lafayette New York ny 17th floor

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fighten0h wrote:

Anyone get the mayors executive order question wrong ? If I remember correctly the answer I saw was inspector general and comish of inspections


 i protested that one also...said comish of inspections and I checked+highlighted it 10x. which caused me to get it wrong no...i think it was a typo was supposed to say insp general and comish of investigations



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All protests are in. For all of us on the 67-69 range, or even slightly lower then that. Fingers crossed. I will be stepping away from this board for a long long while. It sucks coming on here every single day hoping for a miracle. Nothings gonna happen overnight. Its time to let go and accept it for what it is ... but I will not lose faith.

bookworm, and everyone else with a 69, I wish you the best of luck. I shall return some time after the summer.

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Any word on prayingforapass70? Anyone work with him/her to confirm that he/she is okay.

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TenFour16 wrote:

All protests are in. For all of us on the 67-69 range, or even slightly lower then that. Fingers crossed. I will be stepping away from this board for a long long while. It sucks coming on here every single day hoping for a miracle. Nothings gonna happen overnight. Its time to let go and accept it for what it is ... but I will not lose faith.

bookworm, and everyone else with a 69, I wish you the best of luck. I shall return some time after the summer.


 Thank you best wishes! I will pray for you too!



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So waiting for the list number to come out. The forum died. So what's going on? I hope there's a sgt class next month. This 2013 the never ending list.


How many people have passed in your cmd so far and what's the highest score. So far in my cmd got 7 people. Highest score is 88.

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Who really cares no one does. When list comes out it will come out

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Elise1 wrote:

Who really cares no one does. When list comes out it will come out


 Agreed



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goose-eggs wrote:
Elise1 wrote:

Who really cares no one does. When list comes out it will come out


 Agreed


 No one cares but you took the time to reply. Lighten up, they were just making conversation in an otherwise dead forum.



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Who really cares what ppl got in your pct. Ppl just cared if they passed not what others got. It's dead forum bc everyone is waiting for list to come out

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5 in my cmd w/ a 92 being the highest...stop being all pissy bc you failed

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I know for a fact someone I studied with got a 99 and works in Manhattan north

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Long time lurker here. I have read through each and every page of this forum and would like to thank everyone for all the information. Very helpful. On the other hand though, it's a little sad to see so much negativity at the same time, but its the NYPD, I shouldnt be surprised, lol.

I am one of the unlucky ones who scored a 69 on this exam. I made this account to post something that no one has even mentioned about the Family question. First off i'd like to say that this question is so borderline and unclear that I don't think anyone should shoot anyone's reasoning or protest down. There's nothing wrong with someone who fell a point or 2 short hoping and praying for that throw out. For those who passed, it may mean nothing to you, of course. But had you been in this situation you would hope for the same. There's nothing wrong with having a little hope in life, and saying "you should have studied harder" is also a little messed up. We have lives outside of the job, families, problems, and we are human, don't forget how hopeful you were when you first began the process to get on this job, stay humble, you just don't know.

Anywho, The Family question seems to have a few holes, and one that I have yet to see on the board or hear anyone mention is how the CORRECT answer according to the Protest Review Session was taken directly from the CCRG (Crime Complaint Reporting System Guide). It is almost word for word identical to the CORRECT choice, and while it is clear that the cousins assault with the bat was Assault 1 and not Assault 2, has anyone not considered that this question simply referenced the wrong material ? Here is an exact copy and paste of what the CCRG says:

"A woman breaks up with her boyfriend. The next week, she discovers her vehicle missing from its parking spot. She also receives a call from her ex-boyfriend who states that he has the car and she will never get it back now that she broke up with him. This is G.L.A."

Look how identical it was to the correct choice according to DCAS. The Notice of Examination added the CCRG of material they can test from. The question did not refer to the CCRG, it said "According to 208-36".

Also, the CCRG lists this is a Grand Larceny Auto, the fact that GLA is under Grand Larceny 4th is understandable, but this question did not ask "According to the NYS Penal Law", Grand Larceny Auto is not listed in 208-36 - Family Offenses. Therefore it is reasonable to argue that there is no correct answer.

Looking at it in a more basic manner, a correct answer was taken based off of the incorrect material, the material being the CCRG.


And lastly, and this is probably the most important argument which I honestly believe can get the question thrown out. This question did not ask what is MOST CORRECT, this is extremely relevant because it means that in order for DCAS to keep their current answer it has to be CLEAN CUT, having MOST CORRECT at the end of the question leaves a lot of room for even a slight error or change of wording. This is not a clean cut answer, there are too many angles to tackle it from.

Also, yet another angle that I overheard some test takers mention. The CCRG itself can be a little contradicting and can possibly be wrong according to the Penal Law. Look at the example above with the boyfriend calling her. How exactly is this a GLA ? he wasn't observed stealing the car nor did the example nor the question on the exam mention him stealing it. It simply states he called her saying HE HAS THE CAR. That is Possession of Stolen Property, isn't it ?

The CCRG lists 3 examples of a GLA. These are the other 2 examples they use.

- "A man leaves his car running while he goes into buy coffee at a deli. Another person drives off in the vehicle. The vehicle is found three days later in another part of town. This is G.L.A."

- "A complainant hears someone breaking into his car, which is parked in front of the complainants house. The complainant runs outside to see the vehicle speed off down the block, but the perpetrator crashes the car shortly thereafter and runs off. This is G.L.A."

These other 2 examples coming from the CCRG are CLEAN CUT Grand Larceny of Motor Vehicles. How can you prove that a guy who calls his ex and says he has the car actually STOLE it himself ?

If anyone needs a PDF File copy of the NYPD's Crime Complaint Reporting System Reference Guide message me and I will send it to you. Send in your protests.





-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 07:29:10 AM



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 07:31:00 AM

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At the end of the day we need to try and think about how the Test Validation Board will see it. I'm assuming the first thing they will do when reading this question is opening up the Penal Law to read a through d and decipher what charge each action equals to. When they get to the option with the girlfriend realizing her car was "stolen", I believe they are going to have a hard time finding in Grand Larceny 4th Degree where it says that a boyfriend calling his ex to say she is never getting her car back equates to a Larceny. According to my recollection, the question never stated that he stole it himself. It said that she realized it was stolen and that it wasnt parked where she left, but no where did it say she or anyone observed him stealing the vehicle.


The moment the TVB refers to the CCRG, the question should be thrown out for being improperly referred to. Thats not what the question asked you to refer to.



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Wednesday 26th of April 2017 08:34:01 AM

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Grand larceny 4th includes the stealing of a motor vehicle. That question will not get thrown out. Its written in black and white. Fight questions that are debatable/judgement type.

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To me it sounded like unauthorized use of vehicle that's the way I protested it. Let's see what happens.

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According to the penal law: Assault 2 120.05 sub 1: with intent to cause spi, cause spi.

When you commit an offense, you are committing many other offenses at the same time. So the question did spell out assault 1 but also assault 2 and cpw.

The patrol guide doesn't say when the top offense you commit is x,y,z it's a family offense.

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That is exactly what I have been telling everyone also. People are just so negative and not very open minded. Lets face it, there aren't too many questions at all on this exam that can be fought, if any. This is the only one that is debatable.

Remember, in order for the TVB to make a change, you have to make the argument that another answer is better or as good as what they have marked as the correct choice. Every time I hear the Assault 1 argument people seem to think i'm disagreeing that it isn't Assault 1, it definitely is, but like you stated, that would also mean it's Assault in the 2nd Degree. When you drop the online on the cousin who hit his cousin with the bat, your also gonna charge Assault 2.

As I stated on my long post before. The question and choices was poorly formatted. The exam overall was challenging enough to where they could have simply listed the charges themselves on A through D.

I am very confident that this question can be a double answer at minimum.

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Assault in the 2nd Degree

1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he
causes such injury to such person or to a third person;

Are we forgetting that just because he used a "deadly instrument" aka the bat, doesn't remove the fact that he still intended to cause SPI to another person and caused such injury ?

The person who wrote the question took his/her time to make it challenging, but didn't realize that the question had holes.

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Just something else to add.

No one knows what DCAS wrote the correct answer as (as in what charge). Everyone keeps saying Grand Larceny 4th (GLA), but how do you know that if it wasn't shown at the protest review session ?

The CCRG is irrelevant for this question because even though it's nearly word for word identical as what they had "correct", that's not what they locked you in to. They locked you into 208-36 - Family Offenses.

According to 208-36, Aggravated Harassment in the 2nd Degree is a Family Offense.

Subsection 1 under Aggravated Harassment 2nd Degree States:

With intent to harass another person, the actor either:

(a) communicates, anonymously or otherwise, by telephone, by computer
  or any other electronic  means,  or  by  mail,  or  by  transmitting  or
  delivering  any  other form of communication, a threat to cause physical
  harm to, or unlawful harm to the property of, such person, or  a  member
  of  such person's same family or household as defined in subdivision one
  of section 530.11 of the criminal procedure law, and the actor knows  or
  reasonably should know that such communication will cause such person to
  reasonably fear harm to such person's physical safety or property, or to
  the physical safety or property of a member of such person's same family
  or household;


Subsection 4 under the SAME CHARGE:

4. With the intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects another person to physical contact thereby causing physical injury to such person or to a family or household member of such person as defined in section 530.11 of the criminal procedure law;

The boyfriend calling his girlfriend saying he has her car was also Aggravated Harassment 2.

The cousin striking his cousin with the bat was Aggravated Harassment 2. Like the guy above me stated, when you commit an Offense, you just dont commit that single offense and THATS IT.
There are usually other charges that go with it.

When you turn to 208-36, and see "Assault 2" as one of the Family Offenses, and you turn to the Penal Law, doesn't it still say "with intent to cause SPI, causes SPI" ? Does the simple fact that it didn't have "with a deadly" instrument remove the fact that he
"intended to cause SPI, and caused SPI" ? No .. it does not. So YES, it is definitely Assault 1, but it is also Assault 2 (a Family Offense), it is also Aggravated Harassment 2 (a Family Offense) and it is also Reckless Endangerment (a Family Offense).

Reckless Endangerment 2nd Degree States:


A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the second degree when he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person.

This was a poorly formatted Penal Law question that was mixed with the Patrol Guide in a way that made the question have too many grey areas. On these promotional tests, 99% of the time the answers are clean cut, straight up from the Patrol Guide word for word.
This isn't the case with this one.

This will be a double answer at minimum.


 



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Monday 1st of May 2017 08:35:04 AM



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Monday 1st of May 2017 08:36:59 AM



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Monday 1st of May 2017 08:37:31 AM

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If enough people protest this question it will get thrown out or at least a double answer. We have 30 days after protest date to protest! 



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I didn't protest it, I hope you protested it on those grounds



-- Edited by Yoloking on Thursday 4th of May 2017 04:10:26 AM

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for anyone who is protesting by mail what is the version number (the four digit number that follows the exam number)?



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Does anyone have 94-100?

 
Gk06 wrote:
Sunrise wrote:
IMG_1354.JPGNicholasjames65 wrote:

Can someone post the updated answer key again please. Thank you


 Updated??? Looks the same to me


 


 



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Please delete it, there are people still taking make up tests until July!

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Confirmed it's a different test and it's all over this thread.

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Confirmed by who? I heard they only change the question order, not the actual questions

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Nothing is "confirmed" until test day......... I know some military guys got a July date and ppl are on these forums looking for answers.

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Officially a week remaining before the cutoff to send all of our protests in. I hope everyone sent theirs in. Lets stay positive. For all the guys cutting it close, lets remain optimistic. For all of you guys who scored well, lets hope you get a few points too so you can get promoted faster (and send in your protests even though you passed got dammit, lol).

Lets do this !

And for those in the know ... keep us updated with the leaks, dont leave us hangin !!

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Nyfine wrote:

Nothing is "confirmed" until test day......... I know some military guys got a July date and ppl are on these forums looking for answers.


 someone I know took the test and it was different. there's your confirmation



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Different questions but what were the PG sections on that test? They know which to concentrate on.

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Does anyone remember the choices for the Diplomat question ?

The proposed correct answer was the one that says "No longer detain once verified by intel" or something very similar.

I remember choosing one that said something like "Detain the diplomat and take to the stationhouse until hes verified by intel", something along those lines ?

Im duscussing the question with someone and we cant remember the choices correctly. Perhaps someone with good memory can help us out ? Thanks.



-- Edited by HanginByAThread on Tuesday 27th of June 2017 12:54:04 PM

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So far, can we say the most protested questions are ?

1. Family Offense question from 208-36, with GLA as a correct answer.
2. Diplomat question.
3. Building OEM question
4. 212 Active shooter (was supposed to be 221).
5. Question ending with "most" not specifying most correct.
6. And last one apparently there was a mistake with one of the TRI questions ?
Supposedly for one of the questions regarding the TRI there was no correct answer
Because more then one TRI needed to be done ? I have heard this from multiple people
Lately but they could also be wrong.

Any more to note ?

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This board was on fire months back.

Completely dead now.

Lets try and wake this thing back up.

Throw-out predictions anyone ?

Im gonna call 2 throwouts, no double answers.

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The exam was very well written. There is still potential for 1-2 changes though.

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I say the question with the C.O. calling the Desk in the in-basket asking how many posts are covered will be thrown out

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and perhaps the question which was incomplete in asking "most..." correct or incorrect, shows highest probability in being thrown-out

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HanginByAThread wrote:

So far, can we say the most protested questions are ?

1. Family Offense question from 208-36, with GLA as a correct answer.
2. Diplomat question.
3. Building OEM question
4. 212 Active shooter (was supposed to be 221).
5. Question ending with "most" not specifying most correct.
6. And last one apparently there was a mistake with one of the TRI questions ?
Supposedly for one of the questions regarding the TRI there was no correct answer
Because more then one TRI needed to be done ? I have heard this from multiple people
Lately but they could also be wrong.

Any more to note ?


 and if I recall correctly, I believe #3 on your list Hanging locked us into a specific procedure in 217 Series.. talked about an injury occurring and a scaffolding involved which causes for a Direct notification to Dept. of Buildings (I don't believe it said "serious injury" because then a notification to Operations would also be a correct choice) 



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Hmm, why would the post coverage be thrown out ?

I have heard guys talk about how it should be thrown out, but why ? Lol.

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Hated that question, only one I got wrong on the inbasket. I did every inbasket from every school and the one on our exam was much more difficult than all of them.

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HanginByAThread wrote:

Hmm, why would the post coverage be thrown out ?

I have heard guys talk about how it should be thrown out, but why ? Lol.


I believe the consensus is that the question was lacking something; or the timeline that we were locked into at the beginning of the question made it justifiably open for debate and contradiction based on relevant Patrol Guide procedures.  (As we know the rules of an In-Basket are answer the questions in accordance with all relevant items in the packet and ANY relevant Patrol Guide procedures, LBB, etc. as it pertains to the described scenario in said question)



-- Edited by HeartsNminds on Sunday 27th of August 2017 10:51:43 PM

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Reds wrote:

Hated that question, only one I got wrong on the inbasket. I did every inbasket from every school and the one on our exam was much more difficult than all of them.


I personally also hated this question, and answered it the best I could.. giving an educated guess by seeing how many extra unassigned cops I had at the time (that were not prohibited to be used by the C.O.'s memos, i.e.. command staff, etc.) and chose that number.  I don't remember whether I put 2 or 3 for my answer, but I marked my answer and kept it moving.  



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Does anyone remember what the question ending in "most" asked ?

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Still have faith.

Bookworm, we got this, I know we do !

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I don't think it said anything about being injured. The question asked who would be notified of a collapse scaffolding 



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